Hamtramck City Council Now Majority Muslim

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Is there an opt out ?

Yes, just recite the pre-1954 version of the pledge, as I do.

[Jimaz]

Yes, just recite the pre-1954 version of the pledge, as I do.

I had to look that up in Wikipedia and found this other curious tidbit:

The Pledge of Allegiance, as it exists in its current form, was originally composed in August 1892 by Francis Bellamy [[1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist,...

<gasp> a socialist?

So all these years all these super patriotic right wingers have been parroting a socialist. That's hilarious. LOL!

[bust]

Yes, just recite the pre-1954 version of the pledge, as I do.

Exactly.

Here is a short history detailing the imposition of religious references onto U.S. currency and into our pledge of allegiance:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ce.single.html

Summary:

1) There are no references to god in the Constitution. The founding fathers were firm believers in the separation of church and state. The First Amendment underscores this fact.
2) In 1954 "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, during the "red scare".
3) In 1955 "In God We Trust" was added to our paper money.
4) In 1956 "In God We Trust" replaced "E.Pluribus Unum" as our official motto.

It's notable the intrusion of religion happened during the McCarthy era. There are many among us who would take us into a similar era again.

[Wesley Mouch]

Exactly.

Here is a short history detailing the imposition of religious references onto U.S. currency and into our pledge of allegiance:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ce.single.html

Summary:

1) There are no references to god in the Constitution. The founding fathers were firm believers in the separation of church and state. The First Amendment underscores this fact.
2) In 1954 "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, during the "red scare".
3) In 1955 "In God We Trust" was added to our paper money.
4) In 1956 "In God We Trust" replaced "E.Pluribus Unum" as our official motto.

It's notable the intrusion of religion happened during the McCarthy era. There are many among us who would take us into a similar era again.

I take a simpler evasion -- I just allow myself a broad interpretation of the word god. And I don't sweat it. Is not Allah a god -- although my Catechism teachers would probably say she's a 'false god' -- but nonetheless a 'god'?

[canuck]

Exactly.

Here is a short history detailing the imposition of religious references onto U.S. currency and into our pledge of allegiance:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ce.single.html

Summary:

1) There are no references to god in the Constitution. The founding fathers were firm believers in the separation of church and state. The First Amendment underscores this fact.
2) In 1954 "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, during the "red scare".
3) In 1955 "In God We Trust" was added to our paper money.
4) In 1956 "In God We Trust" replaced "E.Pluribus Unum" as our official motto.

It's notable the intrusion of religion happened during the McCarthy era. There are many among us who would take us into a similar era again.

Funny. I just found out this week that the Catholic church in France did not recognize the French republic until 1920. I guess they didn't quite appreciate the humanistic impulse behind the revolutionary beheadings...

Yes, the lay state, and we have many examples of that under communist rulers is certainly as sanguinary as the Religious freaks of all denominations that lust for blood in the name of God.

[Zacha341]

Excellent points. Particularly the last one.

It is hardly a radical position to support an state religion. Many countries have a state religion, including the UK, Norway, Denmark, Greece, and others.

It is, however, a radical position to support slaughter of apostates, which is what Sharia law requires.

So, no, if a majority of Republicans support Christianity as a state religion, that is not remotely comparable to 70% of Muslims supporting Sharia law.

Why do people come up with these desperate attempts at equivalencies? You know full well that Christianity isn't a global threat in this age.

[Zacha341]

Specific to the expansion of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [[ISIS), huffington post presents the following narrative:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charle...b_5903170.html

How Climate Change Helped ISIS

From article:

ISIS threatens brutal violence against all who dissent from its harsh ideology, climate change menaces communities [[less maliciously) with increasingly extreme weather. Most of us perceive these threats as unrelated. We recycle water bottles and buy local produce to keep the earth livable for our children -- not to ward off terrorists. Yet environmental stressors and political violence are connected in surprising ways, sparking questions about collective behavior. If more Americans knew how glacial melt contributes to catastrophic weather in Afghanistan -- potentially strengthening the Taliban and imperiling Afghan girls who want to attend school -- would we drive more hybrids and use millions fewer plastic bags? How would elections and legislation be influenced?

The drought that preceded the current conflict in Syria fits into a pattern of increased dryness in the Mediterranean and Middle East, for which scientists hold climate change partly responsible. Affecting 60 percent of Syria's land, drought ravaged the country's northeastern breadbasket region; devastated the livelihoods of 800,000 farmers and herders; and knocked two to three million people into extreme poverty. Many became climate refugees, abandoning their homes and migrating to already overcrowded cities. They forged temporary settlements on the outskirts of areas like Aleppo, Damascus, Hama and Homs. Some of the displaced settled in Daraa, where protests in early 2011 fanned out and eventually ignited a full-fledged war.

Drought did not singlehandedly spawn the Syrian uprising, but it stoked simmering anger at Assad's dictatorship. This frustration further destabilized Syria and carved out a space in which ISIS would thrive.

Political corectness just won't be enough. Islams PR problem is getting worse by the day at this point and the solution to it will have to come from within the religion not from outside it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-wants/384980/

[jcole]

I take a simpler evasion -- I just allow myself a broad interpretation of the word god. And I don't sweat it. Is not Allah a god -- although my Catechism teachers would probably say she's a 'false god' -- but nonetheless a 'god'?

Allah is the same as God, just a different language. It's Christ who's at issue between the Christian and non.

[Zacha341]

The repubs are done for re. the winning the election. Clinton will win, Trump's a tool who'll shape-shift back to the dems at the appropriate re-entry point.

Meanwhile back at the ranch: Setting aside our campaign grand-standing nonsense, political machinations and rhetoric therein, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria [[ISIS) is not exactly tolerant, or gay friendly:

Killed for being Gay....[[see photos and article)

• Man blindfolded and thrown off tower block by ISIS militants for 'being gay'
• Horrific pictures show man being hurled from building in Tal Abyad, Syria
• Man supposedly survived fall but was stoned to death by crowd at bottom
• Comes less than month after ISIS extremists threw two 'gay' men off block

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...IVED-fall.html

Its not at all impossible to have a Christian version of Sharia law here, when you have GOP presidential candidates embracing "kill the gays" Radical Christianists.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michel...b_8544540.html

[Wesley Mouch]

Here's a lesson on how confirmation bias work.

First, you hear that Global Warming is a problem. Then you read that a drought may have played a supporting factor in the rise of ISIL.

......The drought that preceded the current conflict in Syria fits into a pattern of increased dryness in the Mediterranean and Middle East, for which scientists hold climate change partly responsible. ...

So of course we know what caused the drought? Not Global Warming -- but its reincarnation -- Climate Change.

Drought did not singlehandedly spawn the Syrian uprising, but it stoked simmering anger at Assad's dictatorship. This frustration further destabilized Syria and carved out a space in which ISIS would thrive.

Ah ha! Drought was a factor. Thus, Climate Change is a factor. Therefore you create ISIL when you don't recycle your water bottles. Thus, you must vote for Bernie Sanders.

Meanwhile, you conveniently forget that announcing a Red Line, getting allies on board, then backing out of your committment did not singlehandedly spawn the Syrian 'uprising', I presume because this does not fit your preconceived notion that Obama was a factor in the rise of ISIL. Others of course see this is as the proximate cause of the rise of ISIL. But we all really know that the real cause is the hate and animosity inside our hearts. Islamophobia is what caused the rise of ISIL.

Why ISIL and not ISIS, you ask? Well, for starters Oscar Levant was hilarious. Second, why refer to artificially created states in the title when the goal of ISIL sites above our current idea of nation-states -- in particular above the ideas of the states of Iraq and Syria. ISIL is right in that these states need to be replaced.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Look at what I found on the front page of MSN:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-...Kz&ocid=AARDHP

[canuck]

I was listening to the latest news on Radio-France on the internet. A judge set one of the three Abdelslam brothers from Mollenbeek, Brussels free when it was determined he wasn't involved in the attacks on Paris civilians. He saw his brothers [[one of whom is on the run) only a couple of days before they left to carry on the attacks. He says he didn't notice any particular change except maybe that they had stopped drinking 6 months ago to become better muslims. Is that a good or bad?

The young woman who was thought to have blown herself up when the police raided their hideaway apt in St Denis, was later found to have died from other explosions carried on by the police or other terrorists. She would not have been wearing a belt. She was a heavy drinking, partying and heavy drug user before she turned into a model of modesty and unfortunately lost her life.

Anyways, tomorrow will be the third day that Brussels is paralyzed with fear of an imminent attack with rumors of a terrorist crew hiding with an explosive charge of some kind ready to move. Schools, public services and the metro will be closed among other things...

[Lowell]

Look at what I found on the front page of MSN:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in-...Kz&ocid=AARDHP

This was an interesting statistic from that Washington Post article

"Hamtramck’s Muslim population is hardly a monolith — the city is about 23 percent Arabic, 19 percent Bangladeshi and 7 percent Bosnian. The predominantly Muslim groups don’t intermingle much because of language differences, according to Thaddeus Radzilowski of the Piast Institute, a census information center.

Adding to the city’s burgeoning diversity are the young, white hipsters who have begun to migrate here from surrounding areas for the food, bars and art shows."

In other words it is more divided than the days when Roman Catholics were an overwhelming majority. Christian Hamtramck was monolithic at its peak.

[Richard]

I was watching a show on public television and a documentary about clerics,there was a technical name used that I cannot remember.

They did a segment on the Hamtramck PD and how the first time in over 100 years they were using a cleric in their rounds,this case was a young man that was also a translator.

Officer pulls a young man 30 ish over for running a red light,camera shows the young man getting out of the car and the officer repeatably instructing for him to return to his car,he was not complying so the officer placed him in his back seat under cuffs,the whole time he was yelling "racist" over and over.

Thinking to myself,why, out of all of the English language words,is Racist the only word he knows.What is the mindset behind that?

The cleric shows up and explains to the young man that he was in the wrong while in the car,and when they got to the precinct he had to sit him down and explain in detail what he did to receive that course of action,once he did the young man was apologetic.

One does have to wonder what would have happened had the pull over had not been on a some what deserted street and there was a crowd around.A simple infraction that could have turned nasty in a matter of minutes.

The next course of action is either the officers will need to either learn the language or if not be replaced by someone who speaks it,or the community learns a common language.

The reason I posted the pledge of allegiance is because it is a requirement to perform the pledge as the last step before one obtains a citizenship,there is a group and the pledge is performed by everybody before receiving their certificate.

If one does not believe in the pledge,I do not think it will be changed or altered,but I guess if one does not believe in the God part they could in essence be pledging to something they do not really believe in.

[RaumVogel]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/24/us...pgtype=article

[Richard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/24/us...pgtype=article

When I lived in a international tourist community,I met a lot of tourists from all over the world,their perception of America before visiting was one that was viewed through television shows like Dallas,soap operas etc. that showed everybody had wealth and lived in big houses and drove nice cars.They were actually shocked that we had poverty in this country.

The early immigrants were no different then those portrayed in the news piece,they came with only the shirt on their backs and forged a new life,even worse they had no social programs to help them out.A lot of Americans have also started out with nothing and made their way,some having to do it many times over.

The perception of America is the land of milk and honey where everything is handed to one is not how it works,those houses with the well cut lawns etc. were paid for with hard work and sacrifice,the link is not really even a story or if it is, it is a reality story of every American already living here,to expect anything less is kinda of an illusion.

[Wesley Mouch]

...Officer pulls a young man 30 ish over for running a red light,camera shows the young man getting out of the car and the officer repeatably instructing for him to return to his car,he was not complying so the officer placed him in his back seat under cuffs,the whole time he was yelling "racist" over and over.

Thinking to myself,why, out of all of the English language words,is Racist the only word he knows.What is the mindset behind that?

The cleric shows up and explains to the young man that he was in the wrong while in the car,and when they got to the precinct he had to sit him down and explain in detail what he did to receive that course of action,once he did the young man was apologetic.

One does have to wonder what would have happened had the pull over had not been on a some what deserted street and there was a crowd around.A simple infraction that could have turned nasty in a matter of minutes.

The next course of action is either the officers will need to either learn the language or if not be replaced by someone who speaks it,or the community learns a common language.

...

American-born officers who don't speak one of the 27 other languages of Hamtramck are protected 1) by union law, 2) by our respect for minority rights.

I'm glad you pointed out that the community of immigrants also needs to join in the search for common language.

As to 'turning nasty', this is indeed a problem. Part of our search for a common language also needs to be a search for compassion for police officers and the difficulties they encounter -- balanced against the needs of the citizens they are duty-bound to protect.