Breaking: Illitch donating 40 million to build NEW WSU business school on Woodward

[southen]

For the life of me emu I can't see how this building fits in with the arena or is in harmony with the arena... The back end of the building seems to be more modern but the front of the building doesn't tie into anything in the area or on WSU's campus. If they are going for something to mimic the Bonstelle down the street I think it is a very poor decision. That building has been altered over the years and doesn't come to mind when I think of Wayne State's architecture or identity. Mimic Old Main if you are going to do anything like that.

[southen]

Also, I am trying to figure out why the renderings show the building taking up the entire block next to the arena while the model that the Illitch's have only shows it occupying the northern half of the block. Who has that wrong?

[emu steve]

MSUguy, I agree. If they use decent materials and don't add any weird quirks, it will be fine. And the minimal setback is very nice.

While I sympathize with Southen that this is a missed opportunity to do something cutting edge, I do not think that this is bad, and I also think that it is a good use of the site.

I don't think the Ilitches get the credit they deserve for the entire project between the Fisher and Temple.

They are trying to control and build a perimeter around their arena with buildings which meet their design expectations.

For example, wouldn't it be tacky to have a McDonalds [[OR WORSE, like nothing, i.e., surface parking) at the corner of Henry and Woodward or Sproat and Woodward.

A hotel at Henry and Woodward and the WSU building at Sproat/Temple is as good as it gets.

As DetroitBob mentioned, the WSU building will produce a lot of student activity on school days, I assume more than 'captive' workers stuck in an office building for 8 or more hours. A new hotel will produce more foot traffic.

I believe the Ilitches are trying to buy those houses by Clifford and Temple [[or Sproat, I forget).

As I've mentioned before the next 'key' block on Woodward will be between Temple and Charlotte. 1/3 of the frontage is now surface parking and the rest retail buildings.

I have no idea if the Ilitches are trying to acquire any or all of those properties.

Could Wayne State someday buy those buildings and convert them into some kind educational space maybe IT labs, etc.

[emu steve]

For the life of me emu I can't see how this building fits in with the arena or is in harmony with the arena... The back end of the building seems to be more modern but the front of the building doesn't tie into anything in the area or on WSU's campus. If they are going for something to mimic the Bonstelle down the street I think it is a very poor decision. That building has been altered over the years and doesn't come to mind when I think of Wayne State's architecture or identity. Mimic Old Main if you are going to do anything like that.

Okay, let me summarize my point for any architects on this forum:

"To me, the harmony has to be between the educational building and the arena. By that I mean, design elements and style as well as things like set back from Woodward, etc.

Bonstelle is too far [[two blocks) away to be a direct design consideration, although if the dome on the bus ad build fits with the roof of the arena, I'm okay.

That said, I do see how the 'Bonstelle-type' dome is very, very different then the ultra-modern roof of the new arena.

I would have to see side-by-side models to have a good feel but I would leave it to architects..."

[SpartanDawg]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...plan-for-wayne


this thing looks GORGEOUS

Kudos to the illitches.. another piece from the article:

"The $40 million donation is not part of the $200 million investment that is a contractual component of the Ilitches’ deal with the city’s Downtown Development Authority to operate the arena, which is scheduled to open in fall 2017."

[Detroitnerd]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...plan-for-wayne


this thing looks GORGEOUS

Kudos to the illitches.. another piece from the article:

"The $40 million donation is not part of the $200 million investment that is a contractual component of the Ilitches’ deal with the city’s Downtown Development Authority to operate the arena, which is scheduled to open in fall 2017."

Well, what if the project goes disastrously over-budget and leaves WSU students on the hook for $100 million. Would that be considered part of the contractual component?

[mkd]

Gorgeous? It's completely ghastly. If you're going for a neoclassical look, I don't understand the back taller portion - it doesn't fit the style at all. And the lettering on that building is very casino-esque. Ilitch seems to be drawing inspiration from a project happening in his ancestral homeland.

I'm very happy he's giving money for a new business school but I do hope they choose a different design.

[emu steve]

Good article by our friend, Bill Shea, referenced above.

WSU is raising 15M as part of their fund raising campaign.

So the project is 50M, exclusive of land?

Okay: big question?

Who is designing the building? Ilitches or WSU? Jointly?

EDIT: I might add, as I mentioned earlier, that WSU was attempting to fund raise for YEARS to build a new bus ad building at Woodward between Ferry and Palmer. The WSU president a half dozen years ago told me they didn't have the money... [[I caught him at a WSU FB game. I actually went to a couple during the Joique Bell era).

[Gistok]

Gorgeous? It's completely ghastly. If you're going for a neoclassical look, I don't understand the back taller portion - it doesn't fit the style at all. And the lettering on that building is very casino-esque. Ilitch seems to be drawing inspiration from a project happening in his ancestral homeland.

I'm very happy he's giving money for a new business school but I do hope they choose a different design.

Oh puh-lease.... if you want to see ghastly... just look at WSU's State Hall, the Purdy Library, or this modern monstrosity that they added like a barnacle to the back of Old Main....

The Ilitch's are Macedonian... which shared an architectural tradition with ancient Greece... Granted it's a bit on the pastiche side... but it will be an interesting complement to the many classical buildings along Woodward.... Orchestra Hall, Bonstelle Theatre, DIA, DPL.... etc.

I think the non "innovative architecture" crowd will NOT complain here... at least we don't have a trash compacted Gehry design or something with a carport top we'll have to look at. [[P.S. Not every modern innovative design is bad, but some are soooo predictabe.)

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I think the building[[s) look quite nice, actually.

[DetroitBoy]

I think the building[[s) look quite nice, actually.

They are quite nice. Don't expect the people on here who want to rebuild Detroit in the image of the 1940s to do anything except piss of them because Mike Illitches' name is on it.

Detroit will never move forward until it rids itself of people who only want to focus on the past.

[stinkytofu]

Detroit will never move forward until it rids itself of people who only want to focus on the past.

That comment makes zero sense.

I commend Ilitch for this fantastic donation, but that shouldn't prevent us from looking for better architecture on the main thoroughfare through town.

For the record, I think the new arena looks great in renderings.

[Jason]

Terrible design. I disagree with the premise of "neoclassical" [[wrong continent, wrong millennium. Will the students be required to wear togas to class?), but if you're going to do neoclassical then do a good job of it. It's not rocket science. I'll also add that if you're going for something populist, people would overwhelmingly prefer an actual neoclassical building to the clipart version of a neoclassical building.

And does anyone actually think mullet architecture is good in any way? Stolid tradition in the front, and 21st century tactical synergy projection in the back.

It's terrible that the people who are trying to say that Detroit is some kind of cultural hot spot are the same people responsible for this stuff.

[emu steve]

That comment makes zero sense.

I commend Ilitch for this fantastic donation, but that shouldn't prevent us from looking for better architecture on the main thoroughfare through town.

For the record, I think the new arena looks great in renderings.

I have a question:

1a). Are the Ilitches putting up $35M, plus 5M endowment, plus leasing the land [[$1 / year lease)?

1b). Otherwise, is this a WSU building which they will design, have built, maintain, etc?

Kind of like dad saying: Here is 25K for a graduation present - go out and buy a car. Your choice.

[dtowncitylover]

Terrible design. I disagree with the premise of "neoclassical" [[wrong continent, wrong millennium. Will the students be required to wear togas to class?), but if you're going to do neoclassical then do a good job of it. It's not rocket science. I'll also add that if you're going for something populist, people would overwhelmingly prefer an actual neoclassical building to the clipart version of a neoclassical building.

And does anyone actually think mullet architecture is good in any way? Stolid tradition in the front, and 21st century tactical synergy projection in the back.

It's terrible that the people who are trying to say that Detroit is some kind of cultural hot spot are the same people responsible for this stuff.

Then obviously International and Post-modern designs everywhere!

Or should we stick to this continent's history of tipis and longhouses for our building designs?

It's a rendering dude, get that wedgie out...

[SDCC]

I think the building[[s) look quite nice, actually.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[Hermod]

I don't have a good feel for architecture [[although I know what I don't like when I see it).

My only comment is:

This is a standalone building FAR removed from the WSU campus so the design should be in harmony with the ARENA and not with the campus as a whole.

I do have a WSU degree so I feel comfortable saying this: Wayne's campus is as odd collection of buildings with many different styles, colors, etc.

I find the campus unattractive.

One of the nicest campuses in America is Miami [[Ohio). It is a collection of red brick buildings and looks in harmony. I have been on the campus. http://miamioh.edu/admission/visit-opps/index.html

I can't find harmony on the WSU campus.

When I was on the WSU campus this summer, I thought it was a dump. For a beautiful campus, visit Washington & Lee University some time.

[emu steve]

BTW, sounds like WSU is responsible for building it...

And updated timeline.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...itch/74876620/

[emu steve]

BTW, now that we've all pretty much had our say about the design of the new WSU school of business, I wonder about the block between Temple and Charlotte.

Would a CVS look good at the N.W. corner of Temple and Woodward? [[in front of the DTE sub-station on Temple)?

Would the rest of the block be good for lofts?

OR maybe turn the rest of the block into a CVS, instead of what is there now? Would there be enough foot traffic in the area, including Crosswinds, new housing in the area, student and arena traffic, etc. to support a nice drug store? [[I realize that a Whole Food is also in the area).

We are posting on what looks good one block from the arena. How about two blocks away?

After all, each block has another contiguous block which could detract from it. Is this not a parallel to neighborhoods where someone has a well kept house and next to it is a burnt out house or a field of weeds?

Neighborhoods matter and neighborhoods are a collection of structures and blocks, not simply one, two or three.

[Mackinaw]

There are so many campuses that are worse than Wayne's, you all need to stop shitting on it and notice that it actually has a great layout and several significant buildings. It has a couple of very poor buildings that detract and it's probably what you all have in mind-- particularly the student center and athletic center. And it has too much surface parking infringing on its outskirts.

Most campuses are not "harmonious" architecturally and aren't supposed to be. UM's is not, yet it's one of the best campuses you can find-- total mis-mash integrated with downtown Ann Arbor. Likewise with Columbia or Penn. In these three cases, the harmony comes from the layout and from where the different paths, streets, and sidewalks lead you, crossing between a wide variety of buildings. Only a few have harmonious architecture, and they are quite special places-- say, Yale, Harvard. Perhaps Indiana too with all of its limestone everywhere.

Perhaps I just have a preference for urban, consolidated campuses, but I really truly dislike MSU and other land-grant campuses that get idealized for some reason. Feels to me like a big community college on a too-large piece of land with a couple pretty old buildings to give it, thankfully, some sort of identity.

[animatedmartian]

The Crain's article about the school showed an updated model of the area with the new building

The thing I noticed is that the rendering hides the empty space between the school and the stadium. Almost didn't notice that the block somehow got so narrow even if Temple is to be widened [[which doesn't seem to be reflected in the scale model).

Also interesting, in the top corner of this rendering which was released in June, you can see the back-end of the school. Leads me to believe this school might have been planned for quite early in development.

[emu steve]

There are so many campuses that are worse than Wayne's, you all need to stop shitting on it and notice that it actually has a great layout and several significant buildings. It has a couple of very poor buildings that detract and it's probably what you all have in mind-- particularly the student center and athletic center. And it has too much surface parking infringing on its outskirts.

Most campuses are not "harmonious" architecturally and aren't supposed to be. UM's is not, yet it's one of the best campuses you can find-- total mis-mash integrated with downtown Ann Arbor. Likewise with Columbia or Penn. In these three cases, the harmony comes from the layout and from where the different paths, streets, and sidewalks lead you, crossing between a wide variety of buildings. Only a few have harmonious architecture, and they are quite special places-- say, Yale, Harvard. Perhaps Indiana too with all of its limestone everywhere.

Perhaps I just have a preference for urban, consolidated campuses, but I really truly dislike MSU and other land-grant campuses that get idealized for some reason. Feels to me like a big community college on a too-large piece of land with a couple pretty old buildings to give it, thankfully, some sort of identity.

As I am "EMU Steve" [[I could also be "WSU Steve"), I would like to call attention to EMU's campus which is quite nice. It isn't as nice as Miami[[O), maybe the nicest in the country or Washington & Lee [[I haven't seen it), etc.

Whenever I'm in the the area I drive through. I look at the buildings from say Washtenaw Ave. and the red brick fits. I don't think I'm looking at a half dozen or dozen individual buildings which look like they belong on different campuses.

If took take photos of say a dozen EMU buildings and gave them to someone and say individually: WSU, EMU, Oakland, UDM, etc.?

I suspect that the viewer would say "EMU" to each of the photographs.

Likewise, take the Prentiss Building [[isn't that where Bus Ad is at WSU?) and say:
Detroit-Mercy, EMU, Oakland, WSU?

I assume most would say "WSU". Why? It is such an usual design it doesn't fit at say UDM, EMU, etc....

Here is a link to EMU's buildings [[virtual tour). Check out say McKenney, Student Union, Halle Library, Pease Auditorium, Marshall, Quirk, etc. etc.

The harmony is pretty good!!

http://www.emich.edu/aboutemu/

[LAS2AMS]

The Detroit News reported in January that Illitch was seeking to lure the School of Business to its District Detroit as part of the $200M in new development.

I'm very critical of this move: Many Michigan colleges & universities continue to press forward aggressive expansion plans, despite the state's shrinking base of school aged residents. And Wayne County, which "supplies" nearly half of WSU's students, is seeing the largest declines.

WSU's enrollment is down 17.5% from its peak in 2007, and the drop would've been over 20% if not for the surge of students from neighboring states and Ontario now paying in-state tuition. Instead of accepting reality, WSU wants to pretend that 'if you build it, they will come.'

The overwhelming majority of WSU's facilities are antiqued, especially the classrooms which look straight out the '60s and '70s. Yes, Illitch is paying for most of the new building, but WSU is still contributing millions, plus absorbing the annual operations cost -- money that would be better spent on incumbent facilities.

This past January, the School of Business scheduled a handful of classes at a Downtown location -- all were cancelled due to low enrollment. Most of WSU's commuters will drive past the school en route to the new business school, whereas persons living on/near campus will now have to take a shuttle [[or ride the M-1). That's a head scratcher! Of course, maybe WSU's trying to attract Graduate students, student counts which were free-falling until WSU reversed the trend this year. You know how? By moving most classes to online, 7.5-week formats.

[emu steve]

The Detroit News reported in January that Illitch was seeking to lure the School of Business to its District Detroit as part of the $200M in new development.

I'm very critical of this move: Many Michigan colleges & universities continue to press forward aggressive expansion plans, despite the state's shrinking base of school aged residents. And Wayne County, which "supplies" nearly half of WSU's students, is seeing the largest declines.

WSU's enrollment is down 17.5% from its peak in 2007, and the drop would've been over 20% if not for the surge of students from neighboring states and Ontario now paying in-state tuition. Instead of accepting reality, WSU wants to pretend that 'if you build it, they will come.'

The overwhelming majority of WSU's facilities are antiqued, especially the classrooms which look straight out the '60s and '70s. Yes, Illitch is paying for most of the new building, but WSU is still contributing millions, plus absorbing the annual operations cost -- money that would be better spent on incumbent facilities.

This past January, the School of Business scheduled a handful of classes at a Downtown location -- all were cancelled due to low enrollment. Most of WSU's commuters will drive past the school en route to the new business school, whereas persons living on/near campus will now have to take a shuttle [[or ride the M-1). That's a head scratcher! Of course, maybe WSU's trying to attract Graduate students, student counts which were free-falling until WSU reversed the trend this year. You know how? By moving most classes to online, 7.5-week formats.

Wow. Sounds like you are saying WSU should just shutter its windows and slowly fade into the sunset.

I have to say I disagree with much of what you are saying.

First, you are correct about decline in graduate business students at WSU [[page 29).

http://wayne.edu/engaging-gened/docu..._fall_2014.pdf

There were a few graduate programs which had significant declines from 2013 -> 14. Business, Nursing, etc.

Second, however, WSU is in the middle of a huge fund raising campaign. The remaining 15M or so will come from that campaign. As I posted above, WSU has been trying for say 10 years to raise enough funds to build a new school of business building at Woodward/Ferry/Palmer. All of this predates the arena venture.

How can past experience with past experience with a few downtown classes correlate with a grad bus ad student or upperclassman taking all [[or almost all) of their classes in this new building?

For example, a working student takes an evening class and after the class heads over to Hockeytown and watches the end of a Red Wings game while having a drink and bite to eat.

Or a day student after classes on Thursday afternoon walks over to Comerica for a Tigers afternoon game.

I do, however, want to hear how parking will be handled. Fans attending pro sports are used to paying say 20 bucks for parking. Students are not. Will student buy parking passes to the new parking deck behind the arena?

[DetroitBoy]

The Detroit News reported in January that Illitch was seeking to lure the School of Business to its District Detroit as part of the $200M in new development.

I'm very critical of this move: Many Michigan colleges & universities continue to press forward aggressive expansion plans, despite the state's shrinking base of school aged residents. And Wayne County, which "supplies" nearly half of WSU's students, is seeing the largest declines.

WSU's enrollment is down 17.5% from its peak in 2007, and the drop would've been over 20% if not for the surge of students from neighboring states and Ontario now paying in-state tuition. Instead of accepting reality, WSU wants to pretend that 'if you build it, they will come.'

The overwhelming majority of WSU's facilities are antiqued, especially the classrooms which look straight out the '60s and '70s. Yes, Illitch is paying for most of the new building, but WSU is still contributing millions, plus absorbing the annual operations cost -- money that would be better spent on incumbent facilities.

This past January, the School of Business scheduled a handful of classes at a Downtown location -- all were cancelled due to low enrollment. Most of WSU's commuters will drive past the school en route to the new business school, whereas persons living on/near campus will now have to take a shuttle [[or ride the M-1). That's a head scratcher! Of course, maybe WSU's trying to attract Graduate students, student counts which were free-falling until WSU reversed the trend this year. You know how? By moving most classes to online, 7.5-week formats.

Everyone knows that WSU is the college of last resort for people seeking more than an associates degree. Certainly, the county needs to be working more on teaching most who live there how to read, write and do arithmetic rather than working on aggressive expansion plans. You are correct. The other buildings at WSU are dumps. I would not put too much weight on your comment on the shrinking number of school aged residents. State universities are more interested in admitting out of state and foreign students where they make much more money than worrying about educating their own residents. That's why Wayne's enrollment hasn't tanked completely. They can always pack in foreign students from everywhere and they don't care how bad the facilities are as long as Wayne will take their TOEFL scores.