Housing comparison - 48230 vs 48224

[9606 Prest]

Don't forget the Income Tax on Residents vs. Non-residents.

[rex]

What one would normally think from someone saying that a crime-rate map shows "All of Detroit is high or very high." is that the map shows the crime rate for different parts of the city and that they are all high or very high. But the map doesn't say anything about the different parts of Detroit--it is all one color [[high, rather than very high I think; it clearly isn't as red as Highland Park or Hamtramck) because it doesn't break down to geographic units smaller than a municipality. So even if parts of Detroit were entirely safe this map wouldn't show it. Nor does it show [[for example) that the parts of Grosse Pointe immediately adjacent to the city have low crime. I'm not saying they don't, just that the map doesn't get down to that level of detail.

just looked at a map that shows 15 homicides in or on the border streets of 48224 so far this year. Its a 5.75 square mile area or thereabouts. No idea how many shot and wounded or shot at and missed. When i lived in the neighborhood i would occasionally hear gunfire. I dont consider 48224 to be a safe area. With a population of about 45K people thats over 30 homicides per 100K with almost 3 months remaining in the year.

[aoife]

Check out neighborhoods in Grosse Pointe Farms in the 400 blocks [[Fisher down to Belanger). You will certainly be able to find a house in your price range. They are also full of families with school age children. Maire is about a 15 minute bike ride away. The Farms has a great park and dog park, if that is your thing.

We do tend to have a bit more crime than the rest of the Farms, but as long as you lock your doors [[duh) there is really nothing to worry about.

[Zacha341]

Crime is lower in the Pointes, no doubt, but I'd not leave my doors unlocked anywhere on earth. On the other hand I don't want to live where you must have barred windows, akin to prison, so I don't. I do desire an area of lower crime. But unlocked doors - eh, never--ever!

Boy do have your head up your ass! Crime is way down. I live 2 blocks from Detroit and still keep my doors unlocked. Spend some time here. The media is clueless also.

[RageRoolz]

I live in the northeast part of Detroit bordering Grosse pointe and it is very nice! Obviously there is crime here as with anywhere else but it isn't super sketchy like some people are saying here or acting like if you walk to balduck park you will get robbed! You could pay 50k for a very nice move in ready home and put 50k into making it awesome, save all the extra money and pay very little on taxes because the purchase price. Especially if you could make a cash offer as opposed to financing, a large benefit if you are moving here I'd assume.

[SyGolden48236]

Don't forget the Income Tax on Residents vs. Non-residents.

You're assuming that the OP works in Detroit. Many people are fortunate to work for companies that are not located in Detroit and thus the non-resident income tax is a non-issue.

[SyGolden48236]

Check out neighborhoods in Grosse Pointe Farms in the 400 blocks [[Fisher down to Belanger). You will certainly be able to find a house in your price range. They are also full of families with school age children. Maire is about a 15 minute bike ride away. The Farms has a great park and dog park, if that is your thing.

Children who reside in that area would go to Richard or Kerby rather than Maire.

[RageRoolz]

These people who are fear mongering need to actually come to the city instead of throwing darts from the suburbs. I've lived in the city for a few years now and I am a home owner. I have zero concern over crime where I live because it is a nice area with nice people. zero abandonment. Every day I see children on my street playing and people having family gatherings in the park. I actually reside in a 48236 zip code as well meaning I get the same insurance rates etc and grosse pointe. Very nice with the auto and home owners ins.

Even east English village is nice but where I am at "Cornerstone Village" is the most Northeast [[and closest t0 Grosse Pointe) possible while still remaining in the Detroit city limits. I'd also say it is the nicest part of the city but I am biased. It would definitely make more sense to move here than EEV. It is also the closest to normal, modern, amenities that most of the city lacks [[hello Kroger). Please look it up look on Zillow for some homes for sale and most importantly GO TO THE AREA. Go check out Balduck park[[ the just got millions of dollars from the UAW and now it is very nice with a HUGE dog park, playground equipment, and grills. Drive down some of the streets to get a feel for what its like. What you will find is it is almost identical to most of grosse point with a couple cheaper homes here and there. Nothing awful.

Please don't listen to these people on this message board. Most of them have no clue what they are talking about. They make bold declarative statements based on fear and misunderstanding. I strongly suspect they are just parroting what their white flight parents told them in the 80's and 90's. I'm from the east side my whole life. I was at 8 and Gratiot for a while, then I moved out to 16 mile and harper. I then moved downtown and now I am in cornerstone village. I am pretty familiar with the area, unlike many of the fear mongers!

[FormerEastsider]

These people who are fear mongering need to actually come to the city instead of throwing darts from the suburbs. I've lived in the city for a few years now and I am a home owner. I have zero concern over crime where I live because it is a nice area with nice people. zero abandonment. Every day I see children on my street playing and people having family gatherings in the park. I actually reside in a 48236 zip code as well meaning I get the same insurance rates etc and grosse pointe. Very nice with the auto and home owners ins.

Even east English village is nice but where I am at "Cornerstone Village" is the most Northeast [[and closest t0 Grosse Pointe) possible while still remaining in the Detroit city limits. I'd also say it is the nicest part of the city but I am biased. It would definitely make more sense to move here than EEV. It is also the closest to normal, modern, amenities that most of the city lacks [[hello Kroger). Please look it up look on Zillow for some homes for sale and most importantly GO TO THE AREA. Go check out Balduck park[[ the just got millions of dollars from the UAW and now it is very nice with a HUGE dog park, playground equipment, and grills. Drive down some of the streets to get a feel for what its like. What you will find is it is almost identical to most of grosse point with a couple cheaper homes here and there. Nothing awful.

Please don't listen to these people on this message board. Most of them have no clue what they are talking about. They make bold declarative statements based on fear and misunderstanding. I strongly suspect they are just parroting what their white flight parents told them in the 80's and 90's. I'm from the east side my whole life. I was at 8 and Gratiot for a while, then I moved out to 16 mile and harper. I then moved downtown and now I am in cornerstone village. I am pretty familiar with the area, unlike many of the fear mongers!

For a person who has been a member of this board less that one week you have a lot of nerve coming on here making statements about people you couldn't possibly know anything about.

[Gistok]

I take it that Rageroolz doesn't venture past Hillcrest, Lanoo and 1/2 of Gateshead Streets right next to Moross on the far east side)... because if he did... he would find that the western half of Gateshead all the way up to the park [[at Canyon St.)... which is the rest of the 48236 part of Detroit is a mish-mash of cottages and small homes scattered about in random distances from the street. And I take it that Ragerroolz doesn't go west of Balduck Park... where the once glorius Chandler Park Drive neighborhoods of brick middle class homes is now suffering from boarded up houses, and a preponderance of unkempt rental homes.

I know, I grew up in that area, and was shocked to find the shabby state it was in when I last visited. So Rageroolz.... take a drive west of Balduck Park before you start preaching to the choir here....

[aoife]

Children who reside in that area would go to Richard or Kerby rather than Maire.

His kids are already in school at Maire, from what I understood. It sounds like he just needs housing in the general area, not the particular school zone.

[RageRoolz]

For a person who has been a member of this board less that one week you have a lot of nerve coming on here making statements about people you couldn't possibly know anything about.

I have been reading this board for years, I just have not had a topic irk me enough to create a user account until this one.

Also, to the person talking about driving to the west side of the park near gateshead etc. You are correct, that area it not as nice and you have squatters, etc. However, if this person has 225k, no way he would look at one of those houses. I am talking about housing stock on hillcrest etc. That is more appropriate given the location and what he is looking for. It is safe, secure, and NICE. The area is not as nice as it used to be, but it isn't like there is riff raff walking around all the time breaking into houses, stealing cars, and robbing people at gunpoint as many here are acting like will happen.

I'm not claiming to know who you are, just speculating based on some of the stuff you talk about. Maybe you guys aren't living deep in the suburbs. But I'm also willing to bet you moved OUT of the city, so obviously you feel strongly about it in a negative way. The fact remains for 50k you can steal a colonial that is nice 3 bed 2 bath and then renovate it into whatever you want all while keeping your finances healthy so you can spend it on other things. Maybe a security system if you're concerned about the area.

[RageRoolz]

I know, I grew up in that area, and was shocked to find the shabby state it was in when I last visited. So Rageroolz.... take a drive west of Balduck Park before you start preaching to the choir here....

That is my point. You were here when it was much nicer. Maybe when the colonials I'm talking about were still selling in the 125k range[[early 200's) Maybe earlier, I don't know. You are comparing it to what it once was and obviously it has gone down hill. My point is that it is still a nice area especially if it is just one guy living there. It would make a very good place given his goals. Would you disagree with that? Especially if he was even considering EEV.

It isn't like I'm telling him to buy a home at mack and alter on the Detroit side lol

[Gpwrangler]

I have been reading this board for years, I just have not had a topic irk me enough to create a user account until this one.

Also, to the person talking about driving to the west side of the park near gateshead etc. You are correct, that area it not as nice and you have squatters, etc. However, if this person has 225k, no way he would look at one of those houses. I am talking about housing stock on hillcrest etc. That is more appropriate given the location and what he is looking for. It is safe, secure, and NICE. The area is not as nice as it used to be, but it isn't like there is riff raff walking around all the time breaking into houses, stealing cars, and robbing people at gunpoint as many here are acting like will happen.

I'm not claiming to know who you are, just speculating based on some of the stuff you talk about. Maybe you guys aren't living deep in the suburbs. But I'm also willing to bet you moved OUT of the city, so obviously you feel strongly about it in a negative way. The fact remains for 50k you can steal a colonial that is nice 3 bed 2 bath and then renovate it into whatever you want all while keeping your finances healthy so you can spend it on other things. Maybe a security system if you're concerned about the area.

A security system will not help if there is no response to alarms.

[RageRoolz]

A security system will not help if there is no response to alarms.

There are cops in this area all the time. A ton of cops live here. From my understanding the city of Detroit used to make you live in the city limits and everyone lived here because it was as Grosse Pointe as it gets while still technically being Detroit.

[SyGolden48236]

I strongly suspect they are just parroting what their white flight parents told them in the 80's and 90's.

My parents were not "white flight". Nobody in my family has ever resided in the City of Detroit proper. Not my parents, grand parents, great-grandparents, nobody at all in my family.

You see, Detroit is not the epicenter of the universe for most people. I realize that for millennials and hipsters it is the latest fad to latch onto to try to create an identity for ones self and to appear to be cool to their peers.

No, I have lived just outside of Detroit for over 50 years now [[except while away at school) and have watched with a keen eye what has happened. I remember my father hiring armed private police to guard our home during the Detroit riots. I remember the hoards of Detroit youth making incursions into our neighborhoods to steal bicycles when I was a kid and I remember watching the police chasing them out back over the border. A Detroit resident attempted to rob me in broad daylight at a gas station just across Mack Avenue from Grosse Pointe earlier this year. He thought better of it and turned and ran away quickly when he saw what I had under my jacket in my shoulder holster.

Yes, if one must live in the city of Detroit the small sliver of that city which is in the 48236 zip code is about the best you can settle for. But as far as an investment it is most certainly not viable. Taxes are astronomically high considering the value of the property, and insurance is indeed outrageous as well. I owned investment properties in that area from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s and I took significant losses on many of them when I sold even though they were in superb condition. The final 2 were on the market for over 3 years and even after lowering the asking prices to the low $20K range they still would not sell. I finally ended up quit-claiming them to my tenants who had each lived in the homes for several years and were decent tenants. Unfortunately they could not get mortgages to buy them from me and I wasn't about to give a land contract in Detroit. They each got a free house and I lost money. I hate losing money but at least I was free of the hassle and could finally sever all ties with Detroit. By the way, one of them has since lost the house to tax foreclosure.

So go ahead and beat your chest with the old "I live in Detroit, I'm tough, I'm making a difference" refrain that is so common with the younger set these days. If it works for you great, but don't call others "fear mongers" just because they see things as they really are instead of seeing them through rose-colored glasses. It is not fear but rather the aversion to dealing with the nonsense, hassles, nightly gunshots and other risks that come with Detroit living.

[DetBill]

[QUOTE=SyGolden48236;490520].

Yes, if one must live in the city of Detroit the small sliver of that city which is in the 48236 zip code is about the best you can settle for. But as far as an investment it is most certainly not viable.

Sy, Im sorry that you have had horrible experiences in Detroit but believe it or not there is some of us [[ maybe not many) that have had very good experiences in Detroit, I have been living in a Lafayette Park Co-op [[ 1300 presently ) for 23 years now. I have never experienced anything like you have , its been a great experience, great people, safe, wonderful high city views, and more things to do than i can describe. I either jog or walk 3-5 miles daily, I chose carefully back then,, someplace I felt myself and car were safe, close to amenities and what seemed to be a fairly safe investment. Our values have gone up and down, as many areas, but in the past three years our equity values have now tripled from what I paid and we have a waiting list for larger units in our building. We may be an exception but living here is a great experience, please dont paint all of us as hipsters trying to paint a new image of living in the city for lack of anything else to do.. It doesnt apply to many of us who have lived here for a long time, and there are hundreds of us here in this area who have lived here for 20 plus years and no intention of living anywhere else., We have stuck out good times and bad in this city and overall its been good.. There are many, many new residents, who may fit your description but most of us long timers are ecstatic to see these people, many with children move in and contribute so wonderfully with their ideas and capital,, They are fabulous. To each their own.

[mwilbert]

[QUOTE=DetBill;490535]

.

Yes, if one must live in the city of Detroit the small sliver of that city which is in the 48236 zip code is about the best you can settle for. But as far as an investment it is most certainly not viable.

Sy, Im sorry that you have had horrible experiences in Detroit but believe it or not there is some of us [[ maybe not many) that have had very good experiences in Detroit, I have been living in a Lafayette Park Co-op [[ 1300 presently ) for 23 years now. I have never experienced anything like you have , its been a great experience, great people, safe, wonderful high city views, and more things to do than i can describe. I either jog or walk 3-5 miles daily, I chose carefully back then,, someplace I felt myself and car were safe, close to amenities and what seemed to be a fairly safe investment. Our values have gone up and down, as many areas, but in the past three years our equity values have now tripled from what I paid and we have a waiting list for larger units in our building. We may be an exception but living here is a great experience, please dont paint all of us as hipsters trying to paint a new image of living in the city for lack of anything else to do.. It doesnt apply to many of us who have lived here for a long time, and there are hundreds of us here in this area who have lived here for 20 plus years and no intention of living anywhere else., We have stuck out good times and bad in this city and overall its been good.. There are many, many new residents, who may fit your description but most of us long timers are ecstatic to see these people, many with children move in and contribute so wonderfully with their ideas and capital,, They are fabulous. To each their own.

You wouldn't know it from a lot of posts on this thread, but I think we are getting closer to a time when most people will realize that, just like any other large city, Detroit isn't a homogeneous entity and further that different people can experience it differently.

[Hermod]

Crime is lower in the Pointes, no doubt, but I'd not leave my doors unlocked anywhere on earth. On the other hand I don't want to live where you must have barred windows, akin to prison, so I don't. I do desire an area of lower crime. But unlocked doors - eh, never--ever!

Yes, locked doors will help "honest people" stay honest.

[masterblaster]

I live in the northeast part of Detroit bordering Grosse pointe and it is very nice! Obviously there is crime here as with anywhere else but it isn't super sketchy like some people are saying here or acting like if you walk to balduck park you will get robbed! You could pay 50k for a very nice move in ready home and put 50k into making it awesome, save all the extra money and pay very little on taxes because the purchase price. Especially if you could make a cash offer as opposed to financing, a large benefit if you are moving here I'd assume.

Thank RageRoolz for sharing your experiences and offering a different perspective. Not all of us Detroit residents in the neighborhoods live in fear for our lives, and there are still a number of great neighborhoods in Detroit. I just looked at your neighborhood on Google Maps and it looks pretty nice. I hope that it stays stable and gets even better. It's great to hear about the improvements to the park.

[masterblaster]

My parents were not "white flight". Nobody in my family has ever resided in the City of Detroit proper. Not my parents, grand parents, great-grandparents, nobody at all in my family.

You see, Detroit is not the epicenter of the universe for most people. I realize that for millennials and hipsters it is the latest fad to latch onto to try to create an identity for ones self and to appear to be cool to their peers.

No, I have lived just outside of Detroit for over 50 years now [[except while away at school) and have watched with a keen eye what has happened. I remember my father hiring armed private police to guard our home during the Detroit riots. I remember the hoards of Detroit youth making incursions into our neighborhoods to steal bicycles when I was a kid and I remember watching the police chasing them out back over the border. A Detroit resident attempted to rob me in broad daylight at a gas station just across Mack Avenue from Grosse Pointe earlier this year. He thought better of it and turned and ran away quickly when he saw what I had under my jacket in my shoulder holster.

Yes, if one must live in the city of Detroit the small sliver of that city which is in the 48236 zip code is about the best you can settle for. But as far as an investment it is most certainly not viable. Taxes are astronomically high considering the value of the property, and insurance is indeed outrageous as well. I owned investment properties in that area from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s and I took significant losses on many of them when I sold even though they were in superb condition. The final 2 were on the market for over 3 years and even after lowering the asking prices to the low $20K range they still would not sell. I finally ended up quit-claiming them to my tenants who had each lived in the homes for several years and were decent tenants. Unfortunately they could not get mortgages to buy them from me and I wasn't about to give a land contract in Detroit. They each got a free house and I lost money. I hate losing money but at least I was free of the hassle and could finally sever all ties with Detroit. By the way, one of them has since lost the house to tax foreclosure.

So go ahead and beat your chest with the old "I live in Detroit, I'm tough, I'm making a difference" refrain that is so common with the younger set these days. If it works for you great, but don't call others "fear mongers" just because they see things as they really are instead of seeing them through rose-colored glasses. It is not fear but rather the aversion to dealing with the nonsense, hassles, nightly gunshots and other risks that come with Detroit living.

Why are you on a DetroitYES website...yet you have no love for Detroit?

Also you overstate the number of the "younger set" that have moved to Detroit. The vast majority of young adults in this region are still of your mindset. and still live in Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Berkley, or generic suburbia. I know that will warm your heart.

Posters like SyGolden, DetroitBoy and Gpwrangler bash the city on this site every chance they get - I just don't get the mentality. Calling East English Village a deteriorating neighborhood with a silly name - why such hate?

[Bham1982]

Calling East English Village a deteriorating neighborhood with a silly name - why such hate?

It's true, though. It's clearly a declining neighborhood, and the name, while perhaps not "silly" is a recent invention intended to combat the perception/reality of decline.

[RageRoolz]

Taxes are astronomically high considering the value of the property, and insurance is indeed outrageous as well. I owned investment properties in that area from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s and I took significant losses on many of them when I sold even though they were in superb condition.
So go ahead and beat your chest with the old "I live in Detroit, I'm tough, I'm making a difference" refrain that is so common with the younger set these days. If it works for you great, but don't call others "fear mongers" just because they see things as they really are instead of seeing them through rose-colored glasses. It is not fear but rather the aversion to dealing with the nonsense, hassles, nightly gunshots and other risks that come with Detroit living.

Sounds like a life time grosse pointe resident point of view, and I am not surprised by your attitude. However to say it is a bad investment is silly. You made a bad investment and think investing in Detroit is a bad idea. It is not. You bought at one of the worst times in the existence of the city. I know a few people who are running successful investment properties and it makes them a good net profit. However, they also bought the homes cheap, which they still are. For example, in my neighborhood you could get a home in the 50k range [[maybe less with a cash in hand offer) and easily rent it for 1k a month. That a ROI of about 3 and a half years not factoring in upkeep costs and potential renter loss etc. Is it going to make you rich? No way, but rental properties rarely do until you have many. It could give you some cash flow and a new vehicle to wrote things off however.

I have had no hassles, there is not nightly gunshot, and there are no other risks. My biggest daily risk is coming home making sure I drive slowly to not hit the children playing because they sometimes run into the street like kids do. I don't know why you are acting like only idiots and hipsters like Detroit. I live with FAMILYS in my neighborhood. The have JOBS, mow their lawns and keep their home clean and presentable. Obviously I'm in one of the nicer areas, but that's why I am recommending the op look into it. Its such a good deal. When you factor in insurance, taxes, a MINIMUM DOWNPAYMENT[[which would be only around 4k for a 60k loan) you are looking at a 600ish dollar payment. You could pay the mortgage working at McDonalds almost.

More importantly, talking about investments... I think we all saw with the housing crash that banking on your home even being an asset at all is risky. Might as well take the 100k+ you save on interest and put it into stocks, bonds, ira, etc. It seems like the op wants a nice place to live so he can spend time with his family. This would be a great place for that.

FWIW I have been hassled in the city, but always downtown usually during peak times ie Friday and Saturday night or big events. This is the exact same as any other city I have been to.

[Gpwrangler]

Why are you on a DetroitYES website...yet you have no love for Detroit?

Also you overstate the number of the "younger set" that have moved to Detroit. The vast majority of young adults in this region are still of your mindset. and still live in Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Berkley, or generic suburbia. I know that will warm your heart.

Posters like SyGolden, DetroitBoy and Gpwrangler bash the city on this site every chance they get - I just don't get the mentality. Calling East English Village a deteriorating neighborhood with a silly name - why such hate?

if you read the posts on here, you know that the suburbs and Detroit are bashed quite equally on this site.

[Gistok]

Let me put this into better perspective.... in the 50 years that my late mother lived on Marseilles St. [[4 blocks from Balduck Park)... 1960-2010 there were NO murders within 1500 ft. of her house [[near Berden sidestreet). In 2013 there were four! Each an individual occurrence.