While in Flint, Don't drink their water

**313WX** · January-19-16, 08:12 PM

So far, two class action lawsuits have been filed, one at the federal level and one at the state level.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...uits/79016968/

**Dumpling** · January-19-16, 08:13 PM

I believe that personnel associated with the Flint Water Treatment plant
probably did just exactly what you suggested. There is a diagram of a
Veolia review of the Flint process out there online which shows lime being
added but not the suggested phosphates [[ I don't know exactly which ones
would be good). There seem to be five categories of corrosion inhibitors
for water:

http://www.lenntech.com/products/che...-chemicals.htm

**Danny** · January-19-16, 10:30 PM

While Gov. Synder [[I mean Caligula) made his State of the State Address, residents in Flint, MI. are still suffering without a clean water from the tap. They can't wash-up, take a decent bath or shower, cook their homemade foods, wash their clothes because their water supply is toxic waste! Bottle water and weak filters will not solve this issues. The pipes and filter's from Flints water treatment plants must be fixed. This is the first in my life that I hear governor Caligula Synder, the one tough nerd! [[I mean one tough geek!) Say I'M SORRY! on national television.

Glad I didn't vote for him. That republican fool!

I will never vote republican ever again. They failed a lot of African Americans and poor long ago and they still failing in our American political system, today.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · January-20-16, 03:05 AM

Was anyone impressed by his speech? I know Flint was the elephant in the room and deservedly so, but he could have spent more than a glancing minute on Detroit Public Schools dire situation.
He spent too much time tooting his own horn about all these great programs he's initiated.

**brizee** · January-20-16, 06:08 AM

I watched about twenty minutes of it before giving the my plasma the finger and turning it off.

As far as I can surmise when he discussed Flint the words "emergency" and "manager" were never used together once.

If I'm mistaken please correct me.

**313WX** · January-20-16, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

I watched about twenty minutes of it before giving the my plasma the finger and turning it off.

As far as I can surmise when he discussed Flint the words "emergency" and "manager" were never used together once.

If I'm mistaken please correct me.

You're correct.

Not that it matters. He's on borrowed time at this point [[and he's aware of it).

That's why he's begging everyone to "act quickly" on DPS, before he gets the boot and thus won't be able to bestow more of this failed initiatives on the district.

**313WX** · January-20-16, 06:49 AM

Also [[although again, it won't matter in the end), he didn't volunteer to "release all" of his emails from 2013 [[when the decision was made to use the Flint River), nor did he volunteer to release any phone call recordings or texts either.

**oladub** · January-20-16, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

I will never vote republican ever again. They failed a lot of African Americans and poor long ago and they still failing in our American political system, today.

Snyder's team began using river water when Detroit raised its prices and won't let Flint change the terms of the Snyder team until April. In that you are correct. However, if trendy white liberals didn't have such a penchant for buying foreign cars, perhaps the auto industry and Flint's economy would have fared better. Also, Flint residents, a third of whom are white, have voted for the Democratic mayors and local leaders for decades who bankrupted Flint. The federal government, under Obama, has sent in some bottled water and its CDC even lied about Washington, D.C.'s water quality. Little was spent on infrastructure. In other words, the federal government under Obama has been as ineffectual toward Flint's infrastructure as Bush was to New Orleans'.

I found the Atlantic article posted by Wesley Mouch [[post #66) helpful in understanding the complexities of mistakes made leading to the situation in Flint. The good bits of news are that Flint can begin buying Detroit water again in three months if residents are willing to pay for more expensive water and that in as early as late 2016, a new water pipeline from Lake Huron will enable Flint to bypass expensive water from Detroit.
Aging Pipes are Poisoning Flint's Tap Water

**313WX** · January-20-16, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Snyder's team began using river water when Detroit raised its prices and won't let Flint change the terms of the Snyder team until April. In that you are correct. However, if trendy white liberals didn't have such a penchant for buying foreign cars, perhaps the auto industry and Flint's economy would have fared better. Also, Flint residents, a third of whom are white, have voted for Democratic mayors and local leaders for decades who bankrupted Flint. The federal government, under Obama, has sent in some bottled water and its CDC even lied about Washington, D.C.'s water quality. Little was spent on infrastructure. In other words, the federal government under Obama has been as ineffectual toward Flint's infrastructure as Bush was to New Orleans'.

I found the Atlantic article posted by Wesley Mouch [[post #66) helpful in understanding the complexities of mistakes made leading to the situation in Flint. The good bits of news are that Flint can begin buying Detroit water again in three months if residents amoore willing to pay for more expensive water and that in as early as late 2016, a new water pipeline from Lake Huron will enable Flint to bypass expensive water from Detroit.
Aging Pipes are Poisoning Flint's Tap Water

1. Did any of these other groups of people you're trying to shift blame onto make the conscious decision to not properly treat the water and then cover up and/or diminish the disastruous outcome of their decision when people raised concerns about it?

2. Are you saying the people of Flint deserved to be poisioned by other people against their will [[as they had no say in the decision mentioned in my last point) because they're imperfect human beings, just like yourself?

**oladub** · January-20-16, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

1. Did any of these other groups of people you're trying to shift blame onto make the conscious decision to not properly treat the water and then cover up and/or diminish the disastruous outcome of their decision when people raised concerns about it?

2. Are you saying the people of Flint deserved to be poisioned by other people against their will [[as they had no say in the decision mentioned in my last point) because they're imperfect human beings, just like yourself?

1. It's at least odd that Democrats put all the blame on Bush for New Orleans when, in fact, New Orleans had a Democratic Mayor and Governor. This time around, the Governor is singled out for being Republican while the Mayor and President are allowed to skate free. I find it interesting how Democrats, in both cases, shimmied out of all responsibility and find the nearest Republican to blame. My take is that there is plenty of blame for both parties to assume in either case. In case you missed it, I pointed out in the first sentence, that Snyder was partly at fault. However, Snyder would never had an excuse to involve himself had Democrats deported themselves better in at least three mentioned levels. Obama's CDC even lied about Washington, D.C.'s water; a point I also mentioned if you are looking for saviors.

2. There was no suggestion "the people of Flint deserved to be poisioned by other people against their will". I posted, instead, an account of foibles leading to the present situation by liberals, Democrats at the Municipal and Federal level, Detroit's fees, and Snyder. Except for a couple of lawsuits, I am unaware of petitioning by the government of Flint to speed the day when Flint can once again buy more expensive Detroit water or any assistance from the federal government to do so. Do you feel better about yourself for writing your last sentence?

**Wesley Mouch** · January-20-16, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

... poisioned by other people against their will [[as they had no say in the decision mentioned in my last point) because ...

Using a phrase like 'against their will' presumes that you know what 'their will' is? Its correct that they weren't asked. You don't know what they think. Perhaps you know what today's activists think with the benefit of hindsight. But you have no idea whether the people of Flint would have decided to take the savings of switching off of DWSD and used it 'as they wished'.

**Gistok** · January-20-16, 06:28 PM

"But even though MDEQ agreed to implement corrosion control in July, an MDEQ spokeswoman told HuffPost that no corrosion control occurred before Flint switched back to Detroit's water system in October."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-flint-water-got-poisonous_us_569907f5e4b0b4eb759e1426

Give all the excuses and "what if's" you want... this goes beyond STUPID....

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-20-16, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

1. It's at least odd that Democrats put all the blame on Bush for New Orleans when, in fact, New Orleans had a Democratic Mayor and Governor. This time around, the Governor is singled out for being Republican while the Mayor and President are allowed to skate free. I find it interesting how Democrats, in both cases, shimmied out of all responsibility and find the nearest Republican to blame. My take is that there is plenty of blame for both parties to assume in either case. In case you missed it, I pointed out in the first sentence, that Snyder was partly at fault. However, Snyder would never had an excuse to involve himself had Democrats deported themselves better in at least three mentioned levels. Obama's CDC even lied about Washington, D.C.'s water; a point I also mentioned if you are looking for saviors.

2. There was no suggestion "the people of Flint deserved to be poisioned by other people against their will". I posted, instead, an account of foibles leading to the present situation by liberals, Democrats at the Municipal and Federal level, Detroit's fees, and Snyder. Except for a couple of lawsuits, I am unaware of petitioning by the government of Flint to speed the day when Flint can once again buy more expensive Detroit water or any assistance from the federal government to do so. Do you feel better about yourself for writing your last sentence?

Let's just point out a few key differences. Bush appointed an inexperienced political hack [[You're doing a heck of a job Brownie...) as head of FEMA. States and cities do not have the resources to cope with category 5 hurricanes, and FEMA's response was a disaster. With Flint, it was not a natural disaster but a completely man-made disaster created by Governor Snyder's political appointee.

**canuck** · January-20-16, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Using a phrase like 'against their will' presumes that you know what 'their will' is? Its correct that they weren't asked. You don't know what they think. Perhaps you know what today's activists think with the benefit of hindsight. But you have no idea whether the people of Flint would have decided to take the savings of switching off of DWSD and used it 'as they wished'.

Wesley, Wesley, Wesley.
If the good folk of Flint wanted to be poisoned or accepted to forfeit their health for savings on tax bills does not mean the guardians [[political and instrumental) are not responsible for letting them down. It's that simple.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-20-16, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Wesley, Wesley, Wesley.
If the good folk of Flint wanted to be poisoned or accepted to forfeit their health for savings on tax bills does not mean the guardians [[political and instrumental) are not responsible for letting them down. It's that simple.

Dear Canuck, thanks for being a great sounding board. We march to different drummers -- so we get to learn from each other -- I do so hope.

Nobody wanted to be poisoned. And so far as we know, nobody but nobody realized that train wreck the was set in motion. The guardians are responsible -- collectively. So who are the guardians? Is it just Snyder? Or should that include Mayor Weaver and the council. Should that include the head of their local water board?

I have not heard that Weaver and other local officials realized that lead would be leeched out of the pipes to such a degree. If they did, why did they wait until later to go public? If they knew the train wreck, then why didn't they go public. Do tests immediately. Publish the results. There's no shortage of people who could have jumped on this when it happened. So it appears that NOBODY knew that the results would be as bad as they were.

Oh sure, there were Chicken Littles saying the the EM causes bad breath and frightens little children. But nobody in advance saw this problem. Its all been cleanup and blame. Well the blame doesn't just flow to Lansing. Plenty of local officials and politicians as well as the EPA could just as easily stepped in and saved the day.

They didn't. Tells me a lot.

**Danny** · January-20-16, 08:19 PM

...and the chickens came home to roost for Synder, that geek!

**oladub** · January-20-16, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Let's just point out a few key differences. Bush appointed an inexperienced political hack [[You're doing a heck of a job Brownie...) as head of FEMA. States and cities do not have the resources to cope with category 5 hurricanes, and FEMA's response was a disaster. With Flint, it was not a natural disaster but a completely man-made disaster created by Governor Snyder's political appointee.

Bush did appoint an inexperienced hack but you missed a few things regarding both New Orleans and Flint. Mayor Nagin of New Orleans let hundreds of school busses be flooded instead of using them for getting people out of harms way. When Amtrak offered its passenger cars, Nagin did not respond. Amtrak drove away empty. Instead, he herded people into an arena that was only rated for a category 3 hurricane while Katrina was still rated a category 5 hurricane. it turned into an unnecessary hell hole for its refugees but many more would have been killed if Katrina hadn't regressed into category 3. The Governor was similarly inept. Mounties arrived from Canada to help before state and federal authorities showed up.

I previously listed shortcomings of liberal consumers, the elected Democrats of Flint, the federal government under Obama, and the Governor. I could review that with you if you wish. Thank you for making my point that many Democrats have tunnel vision and blame all problems on any Republican. That is a formula for continued failure.

**oladub** · January-20-16, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Wesley, Wesley, Wesley.
If the good folk of Flint wanted to be poisoned or accepted to forfeit their health for savings on tax bills does not mean the guardians [[political and instrumental) are not responsible for letting them down. It's that simple.

From the Huffington Post article Gistok posted a link to [[post #162)

"For decades, Flint bought its water from the Detroit Water And Sewerage Department. In 2013, the Flint city council voted to join the Karegnondi Water Authority, a new system that would pump water from Lake Huron. But Flint couldn't connect until 2016, so the city, operating under the control of emergency managers appointed by Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder [[R), opted to save money by using the Flint River in the meantime.
Local leaders in Flint, including then-mayor Dayne Walling [[D), literally toasted the decision by drinking glasses of the new water at a ceremony in April 2014. “It’s a historic moment for the city of Flint to return to its roots and use our own river as our drinking water supply," Walling said at the time."

Also there is this - "Darnell Earley, the Democrat who served as Snyder's emergency manager said "that the decisions to terminate the Detroit deal and rely temporarily on the Flint River “were both a part of a long-term plan that was approved by Flint’s mayor, and confirmed by a City Council vote of 7–1 in March of 2013 — a full seven months before I began my term as emergency manager.” and "The federal Environmental Protection Agency — whose Democratic chief was appointed by our Democratic president — knew for months that there were concerns about Flint’s water, and did nothing." - http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430072/flint-lead-water-scandal

Facts don't stop Rachel Maddow and the president from using sick children and doing little to nothing about their plight, as props for their partisan talking points. Disgusting.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-21-16, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

"But even though MDEQ agreed to implement corrosion control in July, an MDEQ spokeswoman told HuffPost that no corrosion control occurred before Flint switched back to Detroit's water system in October."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-flint-water-got-poisonous_us_569907f5e4b0b4eb759e1426

Give all the excuses and "what if's" you want... this goes beyond STUPID....

Your hindsight is extraordinary. You can even read intentions into the actions of people. Amazing.

I'm not sure I even understand your post. Are you saying that because they put in corrosion control they must have known there was corrosion? So in other words, preventative measures taken [[perhaps in response to concerns expressed) will be used to condemn you when Gistok's hindsight decides what's in your mind?

**Pam** · January-21-16, 11:54 AM

Protest in Lansing from a few days ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027547149

**Jimaz** · January-21-16, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

Protest in Lansing from a few days ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027547149

More on the protest: PHOTOS: #FlintWaterCrisis & Michigan State of the State protest – This is NOT what democracy looks like

The confusing title is explained in the first paragraph. The video in the article gives a good idea of how many participants showed up.

**Gistok** · January-21-16, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Your hindsight is extraordinary. You can even read intentions into the actions of people. Amazing.

I'm not sure I even understand your post. Are you saying that because they put in corrosion control they must have known there was corrosion? So in other words, preventative measures taken [[perhaps in response to concerns expressed) will be used to condemn you when Gistok's hindsight decides what's in your mind?

Maybe this will help bring you up to speed....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-...cid=spartandhp

"A top aide to Michigan’s governor referred to people raising questions about the quality of Flint’s water as an “anti-everything group.” Other critics were accused of turning complaints about water into a “political football.” And worrisome findings about lead by a concerned pediatrician were dismissed as “data,” in quotes.
That view of how the administration of Gov. Rick Snyder initially dealt with the water crisis in the poverty-stricken, black-majority city of Flint emerged from 274 pages of emails, made public by the governor on Wednesday."

Doesn't require anyone to be clairvoyant... just to read what was coming out into the news last summer.... were you on vacation?

**downtownguy** · January-21-16, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

The guardians are responsible -- collectively. So who are the guardians? Is it just Snyder? Or should that include Mayor Weaver and the council.

Weaver was elected in November, 2015, and immediately declared a state of emergency. Yeah, she's just one more political hack.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-21-16, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Your hindsight is extraordinary. You can even read intentions into the actions of people. Amazing.

I'm not sure I even understand your post. Are you saying that because they put in corrosion control they must have known there was corrosion? So in other words, preventative measures taken [[perhaps in response to concerns expressed) will be used to condemn you when Gistok's hindsight decides what's in your mind?

I'm not sure I even understand your post. Are you actually saying that people might have opted for lead poisoned water to potentially save a buck or two on a water bill? I am quite sure we assume that given that choice, nobody would have opted for it.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-21-16, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Bush did appoint an inexperienced hack but you missed a few things regarding both New Orleans and Flint. Mayor Nagin of New Orleans let hundreds of school busses be flooded instead of using them for getting people out of harms way. When Amtrak offered its passenger cars, Nagin did not respond. Amtrak drove away empty. Instead, he herded people into an arena that was only rated for a category 3 hurricane while Katrina was still rated a category 5 hurricane. it turned into an unnecessary hell hole for its refugees but many more would have been killed if Katrina hadn't regressed into category 3. The Governor was similarly inept. Mounties arrived from Canada to help before state and federal authorities showed up.

I previously listed shortcomings of liberal consumers, the elected Democrats of Flint, the federal government under Obama, and the Governor. I could review that with you if you wish. Thank you for making my point that many Democrats have tunnel vision and blame all problems on any Republican. That is a formula for continued failure.

I do not have "tunnel vision", but I do see a qualitative difference in a man-made and covered up disaster.