While in Flint, Don't drink their water

**Baselinepunk** · January-13-16, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Lots of partisan rhetoric here, so hard for me to catch up on this one.

Can someone please explain why Snyder is guilty here? And why did Flint leave DWSD? For all the trouble that is DWSD, they seem to at least be able to take clean Lake Huron water [[mostly) and get it to our taps without making it worse. I did think the Flint thing was just a power trip for someone -- but I'm just not seeing how Synder benefited.

Talk about lazy.

Why don't you do your own research instead of waiting for others to present things to you that you will try and poke holes in.

Actually, why even make a "lots of partisan" statement, then comment that you have absolutely no idea what's going on?

Geeez, Louise.

**Baselinepunk** · January-13-16, 05:15 PM

"

Yet, the same people who are silent on this and haven't condemned Snyder [[although they were always quick to defend him) demanded Kwame Kilpatrick's head before his day in court for the compartively insigniicant crime of perjury.

Quick observation:::::

These Republipukes are so quick to jam union-busting, vote-stripping legislation through on a moments notice.

Yet drag their feet on help DPS, waiting 30+ days before declaring an emergency for the 2014 flood and wait TWO FRIGGIN` YEARS before doing something about Flint's water.

Why is this?

Would this same time line exist if it were Grand Rapids poisoned?

Could you even imagine the MASSIVE OUT CRY if JenniEngler did this????

Republipukes would be holding public hangings on the hour.

**313WX** · January-13-16, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

"

Yet, the same people who are silent on this and haven't condemned Snyder [[although they were always quick to defend him) demanded Kwame Kilpatrick's head before his day in court for the compartively insigniicant crime of perjury.

Quick observation:::::

These Republipukes are so quick to jam union-busting, vote-stripping legislation through on a moments notice.

Yet drag their feet on help DPS, waiting 30+ days before declaring an emergency for the 2014 flood and wait TWO FRIGGIN` YEARS before doing something about Flint's water.

Why is this?

Would this same time line exist if it were Grand Rapids poisoned?

Could you even imagine the MASSIVE OUT CRY if JenniEngler did this????

Republipukes would be holding public hangings on the hour.

We know they'll never poison Grand Rapids' or Detroit's water [[since the suburbs also receive Detroit's water), for the reasons you're already aware of...

**Baselinepunk** · January-13-16, 06:00 PM

Republipukes sure are grand at creating human-induced emergencies with State school districts and Cities by withholding funds and support.

"aw, fuck'em", "Kwame screwed'em", 'Detroit -- who?" tude's from State leadership has now caused the death of perhaps 10 ---- Wesley, are you keeping up? ----- 10 people.

Let's say an Adele "Hello" to Flint 2.0 -------

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ires/78750610/

**Jimaz** · January-13-16, 06:55 PM

It just keeps getting worse. Now I'm hearing that they don't know whether the Legionnaires' disease spike is directly related to the Flint River water but both events happened at around the same time.

87 cases, 10 fatal, of Legionella bacteria found in Flint area; connection to water crisis unclear

Chief Medical Executive for the Health and Human Services Department Eden Wells said "87 cases is a lot. That tells us that there is a source there that needs to be investigated."

**Danny** · January-13-16, 07:26 PM

TEN DEATHS FROM LEGIONNAIRES FROM FLINT WATER!!! Now that's capital murder. Ohhh those Romans from Lansing. And Caligula Synder is behind his scheme. Bring in the Feds!

**Jimaz** · January-13-16, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

Republipukes sure are grand at creating human-induced emergencies....

As rash as that accusation might appear, it is consistent with The Shock Doctrine theory.

Putting anti-government fanatics in charge of government is as foolish as putting a fox in charge of a henhouse.

**Johnnny5** · January-13-16, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I kind of have to agree with GP on this one. While lead exposure is a serious issue [[Especially for children), in this particular instance it's being overblown and mostly for political purposes. There's a link in the posted article showing the slightly elevated water lead levels in some households, but they are barely out of EPA exposure guidelines [[And only a small percentage of them). Not only that, but this is a temporary problem that will soon be a non issue after this year when the pipeline from Lake Huron is completed.

Just a guess, but I would not be surprised if the increased number of Flint area children being treated for lead exposure is simply a result of the increased media coverage, and has little to nothing to do with the change in the lead water levels.

Looks like I may have to quote myself and then eat my own words.

Honestly, I still hope that I'm right. The scenario where this is being overblown for political purposes is much better than where it appears to be heading.

**313WX** · January-13-16, 09:31 PM

The Virigina Tech professor who was pivotal in bringing this scandal to light, Marc Edwards, has set a GoFundMe account for donations to continue his investigation and recoup the hard-earned cash he sacrificed.

https://www.gofundme.com/flintstudyvt?utm_medium=wdgt

**Jimaz** · January-13-16, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

... Putting anti-government fanatics in charge of government is as foolish as putting a fox in charge of a henhouse.

That Snyder so effectively depicts himself as the exact opposite of a fanatic is telling.

Why would he bother with that unless he knows that fanaticism is likely to be perceived as creating these problems? He's no political fool.

It's the fanaticism of the policies he promotes that is creating the problems.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-14-16, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

Talk about lazy.

Why don't you do your own research instead of waiting for others to present things to you that you will try and poke holes in.

Actually, why even make a "lots of partisan" statement, then comment that you have absolutely no idea what's going on?

Geeez, Louise.

Lazy, perhaps. I got tired of reading dozens of articles incoherently blabbering about Snyder killing people. The actual methods he used in his murder of innocents was nowhere to be found.

Sometimes, stepping back and hearing the arguments restated is valuable.

**detroitsgwenivere** · January-14-16, 01:55 AM

Sorry folks, didn't realize that the link I posted would update daily. That interview happened on Jan 12.

Lots of interesting questions being posted in the Freep comment section of the article Baseline posted. For every post that throws the Governor a bone, there are 50 that want him buried under the jail.

**JBMcB** · January-14-16, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

Talk about lazy.
Why don't you do your own research instead of waiting for others to present things to you that you will try and poke holes in.

So to boil it down:

Baseline: Snyder is killing people!
Mouch: Why would you say that?
Baseline: You are lazy! Do some research!

Quite the rhetorical methodology.

**Baselinepunk** · January-14-16, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

So to boil it down:

Baseline: Snyder is killing people!
Mouch: Why would you say that?
Baseline: You are lazy! Do some research!

Quite the rhetorical methodology.

Hyper and broad generalizations really don't become you, at all.

For the record, one cannot jump into the ass middle of a conversation and demand to be caught up on a subject they have no knowledge about.

It's poor form all around, but a typical Wes tactic.

Enough about arguing about the arguement; people have died in Flint and we need to do something about this now, or next it could be your city or any other city in the State.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-14-16, 01:40 PM

Nothing to see here. Move along. I am totally sure that if this happened to an affluent, white, conservative, Republican-leaning community the Governor and the state would have reacted in the exact same timely and efficient manner.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-14-16, 02:17 PM

Having endured the usual attacks, I took a while to read up on the story. Here's my summary:

1) Find an Emergency Manager, or find a failing institution
2) Identify a reasonable decision that turned out badly.
3) Attack relentlessly and equate the outcome with the actor's motivation.

Does anyone really believe that Snyder was intentionally poisoning Flint residents? Woke up one day and decided to kill. Realized that the EM law was a fine tool for murdering Flint residents. And secretly instructed that they use river water.

Or perhaps Snyder, being brave, decides that its worth helping Flint out because he cares. Even though he knows that making changes to corrupt, inefficient, and resistant to change bureaucracies can be like stirring up a hornets nest. Nonetheless, he appoints an EM because Flint is about to die. The EM sees that Flint is overpaying money to Detroit's bloated, 400% overstaffed, cronyist Water Board -- and sees a chance to actually save $10m per year -- and also employ more local residents to create their own water infrastructure. They make a mistake. Yes, a horrible mistake.

Then the chorus erupts. Because you are Republican and conservative and willing to actually engage in helping cities you are a threat. Snyder must go because he's disrupting the perfect world that is Flint. If only a Democrat were in place to protect our way of life that's going oh so well.

Life was just about perfect in Flint before EM. Before Snyder. Oh the horror he has brought.

The best, most reasonable articles are in the Atlantic.

But it’s not one emergency manager, or one bad decision about pumping water from the Flint River that has led these problems—and that might be the scariest part of all. Neglected infrastructure is really to blame, but it’s not quite as satisfying to blame old pipes as it is to blame the people in charge. And the city’s financial woes have a lot to do with its shrinking population, but it’s hard to blame the people who left in hopes of finding employment or a better life elsewhere.

**Baselinepunk** · January-14-16, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Having endured the usual attacks, I took a while to read up on the story. Here's my summary:

1) Find an Emergency Manager, or find a failing institution
2) Identify a reasonable decision that turned out badly.
3) Attack relentlessly and equate the outcome with the actor's motivation.

Does anyone really believe that Snyder was intentionally poisoning Flint residents? Woke up one day and decided to kill. Realized that the EM law was a fine tool for murdering Flint residents. And secretly instructed that they use river water.

Or perhaps Snyder, being brave, decides that its worth helping Flint out because he cares. Even though he knows that making changes to corrupt, inefficient, and resistant to change bureaucracies can be like stirring up a hornets nest. Nonetheless, he appoints an EM because Flint is about to die. The EM sees that Flint is overpaying money to Detroit's bloated, 400% overstaffed, cronyist Water Board -- and sees a chance to actually save $10m per year -- and also employ more local residents to create their own water infrastructure. They make a mistake. Yes, a horrible mistake.

Then the chorus erupts. Because you are Republican and conservative and willing to actually engage in helping cities you are a threat. Snyder must go because he's disrupting the perfect world that is Flint. If only a Democrat were in place to protect our way of life that's going oh so well.

Life was just about perfect in Flint before EM. Before Snyder. Oh the horror he has brought.

The best, most reasonable articles are in the Atlantic.

^^^^^^^Wow. What a bunch of rambling bullshit that ignores associated facts.

The injustices you endure while fighting the good fight -- why in the Hell do you even bother getting outta bed in the morning . . . . . . .

Give me a F----ING break.

You definitely need to do some more reading on the subject ... you really have a poorly formed opinion and at this point, your posts on this topic [[like all others) are most irrelevant.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · January-14-16, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Having endured the usual attacks, I took a while to read up on the story. Here's my summary:

Does anyone really believe that Snyder was intentionally poisoning Flintresidents? Woke up one day and decided to kill. Realized that the EM law was a fine tool for murdering Flint residents. And secretly instructed that they use river water.

Nobody has said that Snyder was intentionally poisoning the residents of Flint. Its more a case of some combination of incompetence, a dereliction of duty, a disregard for the health and well-being of the populace, and a coverup of the facts that simply would not have taken place if this happened in a city with different demographics.

**SaintMe** · January-14-16, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Having endured the usual attacks, I took a while to read up on the story. Here's my summary:

1) Find an Emergency Manager, or find a failing institution
2) Identify a reasonable decision that turned out badly.
3) Attack relentlessly and equate the outcome with the actor's motivation.

Does anyone really believe that Snyder was intentionally poisoning Flint residents? Woke up one day and decided to kill. Realized that the EM law was a fine tool for murdering Flint residents. And secretly instructed that they use river water.

Or perhaps Snyder, being brave, decides that its worth helping Flint out because he cares. Even though he knows that making changes to corrupt, inefficient, and resistant to change bureaucracies can be like stirring up a hornets nest. Nonetheless, he appoints an EM because Flint is about to die. The EM sees that Flint is overpaying money to Detroit's bloated, 400% overstaffed, cronyist Water Board -- and sees a chance to actually save $10m per year -- and also employ more local residents to create their own water infrastructure. They make a mistake. Yes, a horrible mistake.

Then the chorus erupts. Because you are Republican and conservative and willing to actually engage in helping cities you are a threat. Snyder must go because he's disrupting the perfect world that is Flint. If only a Democrat were in place to protect our way of life that's going oh so well.

Life was just about perfect in Flint before EM. Before Snyder. Oh the horror he has brought.

The best, most reasonable articles are in the Atlantic.

Are you suggesting we shouldn't hold the guys at the top accountable because they didn't intend to fuck up, they just did? And we also shouldn't hold them accountable because they are Republicans and conservatives and that's the only reason people are out for blood [[and not because they fucked up)?

**lpg** · January-14-16, 06:32 PM

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you".....Yeah right.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-14-16, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by SaintMe

Are you suggesting we shouldn't hold the guys at the top accountable because they didn't intend to fuck up, they just did?

Well, yes. Intolerance for mistakes results in mediocrity. I think its better if innovation is welcomed, and failures are tolerated.

Don't misunderstand. You do have to perform, too. But don't measure success only by lack of a fuck-up. In Silicon Valley, failure in pursuit of excellence is rewarded.

And we also shouldn't hold them accountable because they are Republicans and conservatives and that's the only reason people are out for blood [[and not because they fucked up)?

The water in Flint sucks for more reasons than Snyder or an EM. So in this case, I think the outrage is misplaced. More than just one person fucked-up here.

This was a systemic fuck-up -- which I believe was in pursuit of improvement. Lower costs for Flint. Economic viability. Jobs. If you come to this party without pre-conceived notions of guilt, I think the conclusions would differ.

What happened in Flint was unacceptable. No excuses. What's been happening to our citizens in Detroit and Flint is unacceptable on a daily basis. No excuses. Our leaders should take risks. And sometimes they'll make mistakes.

**rex** · January-14-16, 08:34 PM

Been a while Dyes. Landed in A2. Sucks about Flint's h2o. Not sure what Ann Arbor is doing but the water coming out of the taps here tastes better than it does in Detroit and the metro area. I can put it in a bottle and in the morning at room temp it still tastes good

**bust** · January-14-16, 08:56 PM

Best of luck rex. Did the attack you suffered have anything to do with your decision to move? If so it just goes to emphasize how important it is to get the crime issue under control. I'm sure Detroit was much better with you than without you. Ann Arbor is a great town.

**Baselinepunk** · January-14-16, 09:32 PM

Mods:

Really?!?!?!

Whatever.

**gumby** · January-14-16, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Nobody has said that Snyder was intentionally poisoning the residents of Flint. Its more a case of some combination of incompetence, a dereliction of duty, a disregard for the health and well-being of the populace, and a coverup of the facts that simply would not have taken place if this happened in a city with different demographics.

But straw-man arguments are soooo fun.