While in Flint, Don't drink their water

[bust]

The word "plumber" comes from "plumbum" which is Latin for "lead". If you remember from high school chemistry class, the symbol for lead on the periodic table was Pb.

I do remember.
But I'm shocked to learn how widespread lead pipes remain today.
Does anyone know of a source of information where they still exist?

[Hermod]

I do remember.
But I'm shocked to learn how widespread lead pipes remain today.
Does anyone know of a source of information where they still exist?

Don't have a list, but the most common areas rto find lead piping would be:
1. Older city water mains
2. Older neighborhood feeder lines
3. Older home tap lines from the street to the home.
4. Older home interior plumbing.

1 and 2 would be municipal responsibility to fix
3 and 4 would be on the home owner's dime to fix

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Before I clicked on the link, I said to myself "who are those pasty-faced, mostly chubby white folks?" Then I saw they were GR area GOPers. As a former Grand Rapidian, [[as well as a former Detroiter) I gagged a bit.

Where's Darnell Earley when you need him.....

[Wesley Mouch]

You didn't read a single post on this thread, did you? And I take it you didn't read any of the links either?

Because IF YOU HAD... you would have noticed that the water connection is back onto the Detroit system... so they are getting clean water again.... but the damage of corrosion to the pipes has been done... and doesn't suddenly correct itself with a purer water source. The damage on the interior of the pipes won't go away unless all of the pipes in Flint get replaced. Got a spare $1.5 Billion to spare to do that? Someone's going to have to pay for this... how about all of us taxpayers chip in our fair share.... that'll go over real well....

Are you sure about that?

There are two things going on here. 1) Flint River water is crap, 2) The chemicals that treat FRW make the lead 'leech' [[?) into the water. If you use better water, I think the lead levels will go down to status quo ante bellum [[perhaps not the right phrase, but fun to type).

I believe even perfect water will pick up some lead from lead pipes. There are some treatments to water done even if the water is perfect, so I'm not sure we'll see levels go to zero -- but I do think there would be a return to the pre-Snyder poisoning levels.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can let us know the truth?

[Gistok]

Are you sure about that?

There are two things going on here. 1) Flint River water is crap, 2) The chemicals that treat FRW make the lead 'leech' [[?) into the water. If you use better water, I think the lead levels will go down to status quo ante bellum [[perhaps not the right phrase, but fun to type).

I believe even perfect water will pick up some lead from lead pipes. There are some treatments to water done even if the water is perfect, so I'm not sure we'll see levels go to zero -- but I do think there would be a return to the pre-Snyder poisoning levels.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can let us know the truth?

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/f271a...ting-old-pipes

Of special interest.....

"Experts also say that Flint's lead service pipes, which connect homes to the wider water system, must eventually be replaced because they have aged the equivalent of 10 years in 18 months.

"Damage to the pipe integrity can never be reversed," Marc Edwards, a Virginia Tech civil engineering professor who helped identify and expose Flint's lead problem, said in an email."

[jmarie]

Are you sure about that?

There are two things going on here. 1) Flint River water is crap, 2) The chemicals that treat FRW make the lead 'leech' [[?) into the water. If you use better water, I think the lead levels will go down to status quo ante bellum [[perhaps not the right phrase, but fun to type).

I believe even perfect water will pick up some lead from lead pipes. There are some treatments to water done even if the water is perfect, so I'm not sure we'll see levels go to zero -- but I do think there would be a return to the pre-Snyder poisoning levels.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can let us know the truth?

Actually, water from the Flint River is safe to drink IF it is treated properly. It wasn't. They chose not to use a specific chemical to treat the water, which would have cost next to nothing, and by not using it, it deteriorated the pipes. As another poster said, the effects are irreversible. They have been back on Detroit water for a few months and lead levels are still elevated.

[michmina]

Don't have a list, but the most common areas rto find lead piping would be:
1. Older city water mains
2. Older neighborhood feeder lines
3. Older home tap lines from the street to the home.
4. Older home interior plumbing.

1 and 2 would be municipal responsibility to fix
3 and 4 would be on the home owner's dime to fix

Yep, my mom's house was built in 1928, still contains some original lead pipe.

[313WX]

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/02/re...versight-chair


Rep. Cummings Blasts Oversight Chair For Refusing To Call Gov. Snyder To Testify At Flint Hearing


And a link to the letter in its entirety:


http://democrats.oversight.house.gov...20Chairman.pdf

“Although we have made multiple requests for you to invite the Governor, to date you have neither invited him to testify nor provided a timeframe by which you might do so,” the Members wrote. “Instead, it appears that you intend to try to limit our Committee’s investigation to the actions of the federal government. We believe we have a moral obligation to the people of Flint to examine this matter comprehensively, hearing from state officials as well as federal officials, and obtaining documents from all sources rather than only from the EPA.”

“We agree that the Committee must examine the actions of officials at the EPA, but in order to conduct a comprehensive investigation of this crisis, we must also examine the actions of the Governor and other state officials,” the Members wrote. “If we do not, the Committee’s credibility will be impaired and subjected to accusations of partisanship that will undermine our work.”

[313WX]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...aires-outbreak


Governor urged to quit after release of emails on Flint legionnaires' outbreak

“There is a limit to how many times you can play dumb when it comes to events and actions that take place on your watch,” said the Michigan Democratic party chairman, Brandon Dillon, in a statement. “Governor Snyder is attempting to employ this tactic again, claiming he wasn’t told of the connection, made almost a year before he informed the public, between Flint’s water and the legionella bacteria.”

Dillon said if Snyder truly wasn’t aware of the potential link last spring, his administration’s incompetence would be “astounding”, and added if the governor is lying, “the betrayal of trust is unforgivable”.


“Either excuse – incompetence of purposeful deception – cannot be tolerated and are not the traits of someone that should be governor of Michigan,” Dillon said. “At this point, Governor Snyder can claim either excuse, but he should no longer be allowed to claim he is the governor of the state. It’s time for him to resign.”

[brizee]

Excluding everything else he's done in his tenure, Rick Snyder's recent behavior combined with all these revelations paints his character as one of two [[and only two) things.

Neither one is at all positive.

[Wesley Mouch]

Governor urged to quit after release of emails on Flint legionnaires' outbreak

If I were a Republican right now, I'd be ordering lead tests for every city in the US.

The D's are having so much fun right now. I have to wonder just how wonderful the water is in hundreds of rust-belt cities where no EM is to be found, or where R's dared to step.

[jcole]

If I were a Republican right now, I'd be ordering lead tests for every city in the US.

The D's are having so much fun right now. I have to wonder just how wonderful the water is in hundreds of rust-belt cities where no EM is to be found, or where R's dared to step.

The Legionnaire's issue has nothing whatsoever to do with lead; it has to do with using contaminated water in air conditioning systems. And the whole thing comes down to who knew what when, not is there lead in the water. He either knew that there was a correlation of the Legionnaire's increase because he was told about it by his assistant who received the email which makes him scum and probably evil, or he didn't know because his people don't keep him apprised of ongoing issues, which makes him a bad Governor and probably stupid and lazy or maybe just devious. Either way, she should step down. His political career is a shambles either way
And, if he didn't know and his people did, it doesn't matter. He is the man at the top and the everything comes down to him. Take a tip from Truman, the buck stops here.

[Hermod]

The Legionnaire's issue has nothing whatsoever to do with lead; it has to do with using contaminated water in air conditioning systems.

I haven't seen all the news about the Legionnaires issue. Was it an issue beyond the hospital? I am pretty sure the water plant would have run the standard water checks at the plant. The lead issue is not that the water was contaminated, but that they didn't "contaminate" the water at the water plant with phosphates to prevent leaching in the pipes of the distribution system and in the individual homes.

[jcole]

I haven't seen all the news about the Legionnaires issue. Was it an issue beyond the hospital? I am pretty sure the water plant would have run the standard water checks at the plant. The lead issue is not that the water was contaminated, but that they didn't "contaminate" the water at the water plant with phosphates to prevent leaching in the pipes of the distribution system and in the individual homes.

I don't believe all the cases have been traced to McClaren; they are just saying Flint area in general. The point is, he denied knowing about the increase in cases until Jan.16 of this year and the emails were received by his aides March 16 of LAST year.

From June 2014 to March 2015, 45 cases of Legionella bacteria were confirmed in Genesee County, according to the state Health and Human Services Department Director Nick Lyon.Seven of those cases were fatal.
From May 2015 to November 2015, 42 cases were confirmed in Genesee county.
Three of those were fatal.

This is a radical increase in cases of the disease from prior to the water change.

[compn]

the researchers think that the increased iron [[from the pipes, due to the water leaching metal) decreases the effectiveness of the chlorine treatment, causing bacterial growth to increase.

http://flintwaterstudy.org/2016/01/p...la-occurences/

but this is just a theory at this point.

[bust]

Priority #1 must be to fix this.
Getting to the bottom of what / how / who / why this happened is a big part of that.
We cannot trust the same people who made the mistakes.

[313WX]

Getting to the bottom of what / how / who / why this happened is a big part of that.
We cannot trust the same people who made the mistakes.

^^^Someone else finally gets it.

[Jimaz]

Exclusive Report: How Long Did Flint's County Jail Inmates Drink Poisoned Water?

Cramer also says there are a number of pregnant women in the jail and that they, too, were drinking the tap water up until last Friday’s switch. Lead poisoning puts pregnant women at risk for miscarriages, can cause permanent damage to the brain, kidneys and nervous system of newborn children.

[Hermod]

Priority #1 must be to fix this.
Getting to the bottom of what / how / who / why this happened is a big part of that.
We cannot trust the same people who made the mistakes.

I would focus first on exactly WHAT happened. I would want an analysis of the water at the Flint River intake station as well as an analysis of the water as it left the water purification plant. I would also want samplings taken at various points through the cit by tapping the mains and then some house samples.

[313WX]

No surprises here.


Let's see if that political hack Jason Chaffetz has a subpoena issued for Snyder [[probably won't happen).


http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...o_testify.html


Gov. Snyder declines invite to testify on Flint water crisis by House Democrats

[Wesley Mouch]

Actually, water from the Flint River is safe to drink IF it is treated properly. It wasn't. They chose not to use a specific chemical to treat the water, which would have cost next to nothing, and by not using it, it deteriorated the pipes. As another poster said, the effects are irreversible. They have been back on Detroit water for a few months and lead levels are still elevated.

Thanks, that's very interesting.

Your post leads to a couple questions.

1) So why did they avoid using this chemical you mention? I'm sure many will argue it was part of his evil plan, but really, why?

2) If lead levels are still elevated -- and the testing used before the publicity didn't uncover it -- how do we know that lead levels weren't elevated BEFORE the switch to Flint River water? Wouldn't inadequate testing of water until now tell us we didn't know the real level?

[compn]

the testing DID show higher lead levels. the MDEQ modified the tests and removed some houses that had too high a lead level.

http://web.archive.org/web/201601261...-s-water-tests

cmon wesley, keep up.

[trstar]

Don't have a list, but the most common areas rto find lead piping would be:
1. Older city water mains
2. Older neighborhood feeder lines
3. Older home tap lines from the street to the home.
4. Older home interior plumbing.

1 and 2 would be municipal responsibility to fix
3 and 4 would be on the home owner's dime to fix

If the city damages my pipes, its also their responsibility to fix it as well.

[Wesley Mouch]

the testing DID show higher lead levels. the MDEQ modified the tests and removed some houses that had too high a lead level.

http://web.archive.org/web/201601261...-s-water-tests

cmon wesley, keep up.

If the MDEQ did those modifications to hide bad results, you have a good case against the MDEQ.

Otherwise, that article isn't much more than a political ad, IMO. The short version of the ACLU article [[and much of the partisan coverage) is that the problem in Flint was the proximate result of Republican actions. Even if Snyder poured Draino [[R) into the pipes, he was only a minor contributing factor to a crisis.

Simplistic, self-validating answers are usually wrong. I believe you're looking at a complex crisis and accepting the party line on it hook, line, and sinker. There may be blame to place. Blaming the EM and Governor excuses far too many people who had a role in this crisis in pursuit of simple and convenient answers.

If the Flint Water Board, MDEQ and EPA were all incompetent in Flint, do we really think Flint is unique? Are other cities just one unintentional decision away from similar fates? I think so.

[Jimaz]

Wesley's own "simplistic, self-validating" partisan politicization aside, Erin Brockovich Explains The Flint Water Crisis.