Syria's Loss Detroit's Gain? Proposal to Settle Refugees in Northtown

[takascar]

Whose money? We'll have to figure that out. It ought to be the federal governments -- but that doesn't matter. And if the residents whose leaders stole their money and drove the city into bankruptcy are pissed off -- too bad. You really are being mean. They don't have anything to offer? Pre-employed? By that standard, many to most our families would have never been let in the US. Try reading the Statue of Liberty. The US was built by immigrants who came to the US, integrated with society, and made contributions. What you've said is exactly what was said about Italians [[and many others) once. Try love next. Might work better.

You keep the "love". Every time I hear that word, I grab my wallet and make sure its safe. No more refugees here. Life is hard and some people will just die. Its not our job to save every poor soul in the world. Doing so weakens our community. I say we find jobs for the PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY THEIR WHOLE LIVES first rather than importing a whole bunch of unemployed people from the outside. We have a SHRINKING ECONOMY not a growing one. When my ancestors came here in the early 1900's, there was a HUGE LABOR SHORTAGE and their labor was needed. The nation allowed them in because nation needed them, not because it wanted to be nice. Sorry, but I have more respect for the people already here. First, we fix up our economy, abrograte some of those unfair trade agreements and tell the world we are no longer going to be patsies. Then, we re-negotiate these agreements to include labor standards as a main part of the agreements, not side-deals. We need global wage parity [[cf. Walter Reuther speeches, circa 1950's - he warned that these crooked free trade deals were coming). Then, IF, and ONLY IF our economy needs workers, we ALLOW them in IF ITS IN OUR BEST INTEREST. In spite of some people's rose colored glasses [[nonsense like "love", etc), we let people into this country in the past when IT SUITED OUR INTERESTS, not for any other reason, and we should start doing that again. Maybe people should listen to Donald Trump.

[Richard]

^^^^ In the 1920s California was in a building boom with no labor force,Mexico was in a internal war,those fleeing would go to the border.

American contractors and builders etc. would go to the border and pick up the workers,they basically built the cities.

1929-1930 and the depression hit,California deported over 500,000 established Mexican families in less then two years.

In the Obama administration over 400,000 undocumented workers have been deported,more then any other administration,many have never been to the country that they were deported to or were babies when their parents came to this country.

[Wesley Mouch]

......snip...In the Obama administration over 400,000 undocumented workers have been deported,more then any other administration,many have never been to the country that they were deported to or were babies when their parents came to this country.

I've always been amused by the use of the term 'undocumented'.... Its just brilliant. As if all they needed was to find the paperwork. Nothing wrong here, just that their papers haven't been updated. Crap... they are here illegally.

What's wrong is the laws. We should be legalizing immigration for good people, with fair rules that respect them -- and yet protecting our country's integrity as well.

We are a nation of immigrants. More is better. But done on our terms, not theirs. So let's make some decent terms.

[canuck]

I've always been amused by the use of the term 'undocumented'.... Its just brilliant. As if all they needed was to find the paperwork. Nothing wrong here, just that their papers haven't been updated. Crap... they are here illegally.

What's wrong is the laws. We should be legalizing immigration for good people, with fair rules that respect them -- and yet protecting our country's integrity as well.

We are a nation of immigrants. More is better. But done on our terms, not theirs. So let's make some decent terms.

When I think of California's massive immigration from Mexico over the years, legal or not, I cannot imagine the dice weren't loaded in favor of the state's interest. Agriculture is still a dominant industry and sucks up tons of "undocumented workers". You can avoid being a Patsy [[in takascar's words) and not be a Nazi either, when humans are reduced to simple economic agents or pawn in a game, sadness occurs. Out of this tough situation, all kinds of winning and losing outcomes are determined, and of course the magic word of " Opportunity " rears its head. I am ambivalent not so much about immigration but at how it is "framed" as an economic tool for the state. Or maybe the "Injuns" had it all wrong and should have had an Immigration and Naturalization Dept at Plymouth Rock...

There are two valleys in California that produce more than half of the US's fruit and vegetables. I once drove to the Mexican border at San Isidro at 3 A.M. and saw hundreds of men standing on the US side waiting for busses and pick-up trucks to go to work on daily assignments in 1990.

[Wesley Mouch]

When I think of California's massive immigration from Mexico over the years, legal or not, I cannot imagine the dice weren't loaded in favor of the state's interest. Agriculture is still a dominant industry and sucks up tons of "undocumented workers". You can avoid being a Patsy [[in takascar's words) and not be a Nazi either, when humans are reduced to simple economic agents or pawn in a game, sadness occurs. Out of this tough situation, all kinds of winning and losing outcomes are determined, and of course the magic word of " Opportunity " rears its head. I am ambivalent not so much about immigration but at how it is "framed" as an economic tool for the state. Or maybe the "Injuns" had it all wrong and should have had an Immigration and Naturalization Dept at Plymouth Rock...

There are two valleys in California that produce more than half of the US's fruit and vegetables. I once drove to the Mexican border at San Isidro at 3 A.M. and saw hundreds of men standing on the US side waiting for busses and pick-up trucks to go to work on daily assignments in 1990.

I believe it was Bobby Jindal [[from Ireland, right) who said 'immigration without assimilation is invasion'. I doubt he said it first.

Your comment on INS & Plymouth Rock made me chuckle. All Americans are immigrants, if you go back far enough. And that is true to a great extent to almost all the people of the world.

People have a bad way of treating each other badly. Emigration often follows. Search for better. That's also a human trait. If you do things well, you have to face immigration from areas where they haven't done things well for their own people. Where the human desire to abuse each other isn't controlled.

I'd like to discuss the nature of nations. And why we're obsessive about things like not invading them, even when they abuse their people, but that's for another day.

Today, I'll just say that the immigration issue requirements management. and we clearly suck at this. We cannot wish the problem away any more than the Palestinians can wish away the Jews, or the 'Injuns' can wish away the Europeans. Let's get to work.

[Richard]

"undocumented" you have to use such terms because it is one of the 8000 news words now if you do not use you are not PC or receive some kind of label to divert from the issue .

Immigration is complex and there is to much incentive not to fix it on both the documented and undocumented side.

Documented is easy if you have money,through marriage.

Russian women pay $50,000, you find a single American male that makes minimum standard and has 2 years of W2,he gets from $2500 to $5000 and $5000 gets kicked upstairs,you just made $40,000. X that by how many You can find a week.

Vietnamese business women pay up to $100,000.

Arab and Indian descent are always looking for a deal so they only pay $35,000,just ask my X wife.

Forget about terrorist coming across the border in two years a cell of 5 can be brought over for $175,000,that is chump change.

Undocumented

As a contractor a skilled labor is $150 a 8 hour day where as an illegal is $65 a 10 hour day.
The house still sells for $100k so it is the contractor making the money.

When I was contracting my rate for tiling a bathroom was $3.50 per sqft,insurance,workman's comp,etc.

Illeagles were charging .50c per sqft,okay,it was crappy work,but people for the most part look at the cost factor.

The ones making the money off of that part of the immigration aspect are the ones that have the money and using the golden rule.

Early immigration built and populated a country,now it is more so about providing cheap labor force without reducing the price of the end product.

Speaking of immigration,why is there a video on YouTube of Muslims throwing rocks at Catholics coming out of church service in Dearborn? and why is Dearborn considered a no go city for Christians and Catholics?

[takascar]

I've always been amused by the use of the term 'undocumented'.... Its just brilliant. As if all they needed was to find the paperwork. Nothing wrong here, just that their papers haven't been updated. Crap... they are here illegally. What's wrong is the laws. We should be legalizing immigration for good people, with fair rules that respect them -- and yet protecting our country's integrity as well. We are a nation of immigrants. More is better. But done on our terms, not theirs. So let's make some decent terms.

If you come to a nation and want to be accepted, the MINIMUM you do is not break the laws. If the very act of coming over [[i.e. without permission) is an illegal act, then you have no business being here. You are asking for permission to come in. You don't have a RIGHT to be here - you come in if we let you. My ancestors came when the USA needed workers and came in the front door. They didn't commit a B&E to get in. They worked hard, ASSIMILATED, learned English and became real Americans. They deserved the honorable title of "immigrant". This is not what we have today. Today people break the law as their very first act [[either over-stayinig visa or illegally crossing the border). I agree - this nonsense about "undocumented immigrant" has to stop. An immigrant doesn't break the laws of his/her new home and respects the nation that he/she is entering. I call them what they are - ILLEGAL ALIENS and I think we all need to do that and resist the PC nonsense.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

If you come to a nation and want to be accepted, the MINIMUM you do is not break the laws. If the very act of coming over [[i.e. without permission) is an illegal act, then you have no business being here. You are asking for permission to come in. You don't have a RIGHT to be here - you come in if we let you. My ancestors came when the USA needed workers and came in the front door. They didn't commit a B&E to get in. They worked hard, ASSIMILATED, learned English and became real Americans. They deserved the honorable title of "immigrant". This is not what we have today. Today people break the law as their very first act [[either over-stayinig visa or illegally crossing the border). I agree - this nonsense about "undocumented immigrant" has to stop. An immigrant doesn't break the laws of his/her new home and respects the nation that he/she is entering. I call them what they are - ILLEGAL ALIENS and I think we all need to do that and resist the PC nonsense.

Most likely your ancestors came here when there were simply open borders, so there was no door other than the "front door". And many many of the prior waves of immigration were greeted with suspicion and derision, as is the case today.

[Richard]

Most likely your ancestors came here when there were simply open borders, so there was no door other than the "front door". And many many of the prior waves of immigration were greeted with suspicion and derision, as is the case today.

Which is true,but the big difference is those who came through Ellis island back then,many with just the shirt on their backs.

Nobody gave them anything,they lived in dumps and did what it took to make a future for thier children.and when the call for arms came they were there.

If we said, okay you are here,your wife and children are somewhat safe,we are going to send Americans over to help your other country,would they go?

There are a couple of hundred here in Tampa already and pushing for a couple of hundred more,Catholic charities are the ones helping them to get established.

There is a section also here that was the gathering point for refugees from Afghanistan and Iran,they took a part of town that was predominately African American and somewhat run down.

Now it is strictly business that cater to them and the Arabic community,they were considered refugees,where did they get the funds to buy the strip malls,drop 100,000 to open a restaurant without a thought,they were handed millions or loaned or granted from the federal government to do something that everyday Americans do not have excess to.

They could have done the exact same thing with the currant residents,so is it better to sneak over to another country and assume another identity,and come back as a refugee?

The big difference with immigrants from the past to present is they did not want to blow you up .It was based on freedom of religion not forced religion and it did not matter what religion you were,you fought and died if necessary to protect that.

We have no business being over there anyways and the radicals have been fighting religious wars for 1000s of years and they are not going to stop now either here or there.

http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...oning+cathlics

[canuck]

Which is true,but the big difference is those who came through Ellis island back then,many with just the shirt on their backs.

Nobody gave them anything,they lived in dumps and did what it took to make a future for thier children.and when the call for arms came they were there.

If we said, okay you are here,your wife and children are somewhat safe,we are going to send Americans over to help your other country,would they go?

There are a couple of hundred here in Tampa already and pushing for a couple of hundred more,Catholic charities are the ones helping them to get established.

There is a section also here that was the gathering point for refugees from Afghanistan and Iran,they took a part of town that was predominately African American and somewhat run down.

Now it is strictly business that cater to them and the Arabic community,they were considered refugees,where did they get the funds to buy the strip malls,drop 100,000 to open a restaurant without a thought,they were handed millions or loaned or granted from the federal government to do something that everyday Americans do not have excess to.

They could have done the exact same thing with the currant residents,so is it better to sneak over to another country and assume another identity,and come back as a refugee?

The big difference with immigrants from the past to present is they did not want to blow you up .It was based on freedom of religion not forced religion and it did not matter what religion you were,you fought and died if necessary to protect that.

We have no business being over there anyways and the radicals have been fighting religious wars for 1000s of years and they are not going to stop now either here or there.

http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...oning+cathlics

Where did they get the funds for investments in the US?

Well, just like the Vietnamese weren't all boat people, a lot of these folks won't be refugees in the strict sense of the word, except for the fact they can buy their way out of a dire situation. I am more worried that undeserving lackeys of Bashar Al Hassad wind up in North American cities while others perish under Allied and other bomb throwers. In Toronto and Montreal, they have recently dug up some hidden treasures, sons and brothers of dictators living the big life in mansions. I hate to see that happen when I know that there are UN camps that are filled with families with no connections and nowhere to go that may spend years there. That is fodder for resentment.

[Richard]

Main stream they show you the fluff,some gov grants and some higher up are allowed to enter that have the resources to fund others.

In Orlando there is a x army guy that was under the shaw,in his district if you sold a chicken you had to give him his cut,if not,well you will not be selling anymore chickens anyways.

So they bring him to Orlando and he finances start-ups for Iranians,mostly car lots and salvage lots,anything that creates cash,you can guess the interest rates,and figure the principle will never be paid off,he brought millions with him and he plays with millions.

Tampa,the Indian coalition is run by a group,they also fund start-ups of C stores and motels the interest rate is different,they own the building and the rent is scheduled as more then enough.

Get to know them and some will be happy to show you pictures of their future retirement home in their country,gold plated faucets etc,kinda gives you an idea.They pool the money and build mosques in their home country,every time somebody goes to pray they deposit money,up to 5 times a day.

Run a scam? Have a C-Store collect 70k in food stamp fraud,move the owner to another store and change the name and rinse and repeat.

Are all immigrants like that ? No,but it does not take much to give others a pass to make up for it.

They say kids join gangs because they are looking for a bond,so what happens and is happening when one radical influences five?

Volunteer for Without Borders is gang raped at a refugee camp while they are holding a festival to brighten their spirits.

She is told to keep her mouth shut,literally,because it would put the refugees in a bad light.

Retired couple created a group of volunteers in Germany to cook hot meals for the refugee camp,a local supermarket donated canned goods to be delivered with the evening meal,when they delivered them,they were one day past the use by date.They dumped the opens cans on the ground and the older couple had to literally run for their life.

The next camp a riot started while they were handing out meals,they had to jump in the van and leave for their safety,the camera showed a refugee jumping into the back of the van and pushing the food out onto the street.

Germany has had lots of riots in the refugee camps,google shows up,because demands are not met.

If one grows up in a situation where it is common place daily for violence and it is the only thing you know it is what you are comfortable with.

Are all refugees like that? I would not think so,or hope so, but the question is what level of risk are we willing to except,or collateral damage as it would seem.

[Bham1982]

"
Documented is easy if you have money,through marriage.

No, that would be illegal. If you marry for purposes of immigration that's a felony and you will probably be jailed and deported.

The reason the U.S. has undocumented immigrants is because there's no current legal path for them. There is no way a laborer from Guatemala can get to the U.S. legally absent family connections. We need a guest worker program like most first world nations.

[canuck]

No, that would be illegal. If you marry for purposes of immigration that's a felony and you will probably be jailed and deported.

The reason the U.S. has undocumented immigrants is because there's no current legal path for them. There is no way a laborer from Guatemala can get to the U.S. legally absent family connections. We need a guest worker program like most first world nations.

Marrying for immigration-readiness may be illegal, if proved felonious, but it is done all the time without much consequence, at least in Canuckistan.

[Bham1982]

Marrying for immigration-readiness may be illegal, if proved felonious, but it is done all the time without much consequence, at least in Canuckistan.

Canada is known to be very pro-immigration and is a fairly easy entry for migrants, so not hugely surprised. The U.S., despite its history of immigration, is actually one of the toughest places on earth to legally immigrate and has some very stupid immigration policies.

In fact Canada is so simple in comparison that many non-Latin American undocumented in the U.S. make their way through Canada. If you find someone undocumented in NYC and they're from [[say) Russia or Turkey or Albania or China there's a good chance they came through Canada.

[Wesley Mouch]

Where did they get the funds for investments in the US?

Well, just like the Vietnamese weren't all boat people, a lot of these folks won't be refugees in the strict sense of the word, except for the fact they can buy their way out of a dire situation....

I was surprised to read that the many had to buy 'tickets' to get across the water from Turkey to Greece. And the cost was stiff. Per Newsweek: "According to the reporters, the cost of the journey for the refugees is 2,000 euros [[$2,260) per adult and 1,000 euros [[$1,130) per child."

I think the term refugees is somewhat misplaced. Germany offered free cake. Their offer was accepted. A few gun barrels helped -- but this isn't just about war.

[aj3647]

That's fine, as long as they all have paid medical, credit, money, and are able to pay City, State, and Federal taxes. If not, we already have some.

Did you have any ancestors that perhaps came in through Ellis Island or other ports of entry in the 19th or early 20th century? Did they meet all those criteria?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

That's engraved on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Of course, it seems many here want to close that door once those huddled masses start to have a slightly darker skin tone or a different religion than the poor, non-English-speaking, uneducated European immigrants who came before them...

[Honky Tonk]

Did you have any ancestors that perhaps came in through Ellis Island or other ports of entry in the 19th or early 20th century? Did they meet all those criteria?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

That's engraved on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Of course, it seems many here want to close that door once those huddled masses start to have a slightly darker skin tone or a different religion than the poor, non-English-speaking, uneducated European immigrants who came before them...

My ancestors, who did come through Ellis Island, legally, didn't attack those who gave them shelter, and definitely pulled their own weight once they got here. They were needed here by the powers that be, @ that time, as a means of affordable labor. If these immigrants are seeking labor, might I suggest the new gen manufacturing countries where labor is these days? Not the countries that give generous benefits to immigrants, and the unemployed. I'm well aware of the engraving on The Statue of Liberty. I'm also well aware of where a large percentage of my tax dollars are going.

[aj3647]

My ancestors, who did come through Ellis Island, legally, didn't attack those who gave them shelter, and definitely pulled their own weight once they got here. They were needed here by the powers that be, @ that time, as a means of affordable labor. If these immigrants are seeking labor, might I suggest the new gen manufacturing countries where labor is these days? Not the countries that give generous benefits to immigrants, and the unemployed. I'm well aware of the engraving on The Statue of Liberty. I'm also well aware of where a large percentage of my tax dollars are going.

The Syrian refugees aren't even here yet, and yet you automatically assume that they will "attack us" and not "pull their weight?" And then you use your unproven assumptions as a retroactive justification for not letting them in in the first place? Do you see a problem with that? Your ancestors got the benefit of the doubt, which allowed you to be born an American with the freedom to type ignorant opinions on Internet forums, but you refuse to give the same benefit to people fleeing from an active war zone. Also, just FYI, these Syrian refugees would also be coming here LEGALLY, so not sure why you decided to toss that word out there, as if to imply the Syrians would be coming here illegally.

[canuck]

Canada is known to be very pro-immigration and is a fairly easy entry for migrants, so not hugely surprised. The U.S., despite its history of immigration, is actually one of the toughest places on earth to legally immigrate and has some very stupid immigration policies.

In fact Canada is so simple in comparison that many non-Latin American undocumented in the U.S. make their way through Canada. If you find someone undocumented in NYC and they're from [[say) Russia or Turkey or Albania or China there's a good chance they came through Canada.

Some folks also cross into Canada illegally from the States;

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ests-1.3252309



There are also a lot of illegal Mexicans in Canada, especially in the Montreal region. A couple of years ago, the government clamped down on refugee status demands from folks arriving on vacation from Mexico. it became more difficult for Mexicans to travel here, and yet, they are one of the more important tourist groups to visit our region, sadly.

[Wesley Mouch]

Some folks also cross into Canada illegally from the States;

Does Canada offer citizenship 'jus sanguinis' [[bloodline)? And as to birth location, I thought the US was fairly unique in this. ?

My understanding is that Canada is much more liberal than the US in granting refugee status. If an arrival claims refugee status, the system takes years to adjudicate their claim. Can you enlighted us?

Back to your point.... a possible driver for your Iraqis is family reunification. Immigration isn't just driven by flight from, but sometimes flight to.

[Richard]

Did you have any ancestors that perhaps came in through Ellis Island or other ports of entry in the 19th or early 20th century? Did they meet all those criteria?

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

That's engraved on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Of course, it seems many here want to close that door once those huddled masses start to have a slightly darker skin tone or a different religion than the poor, non-English-speaking, uneducated European immigrants who came before them...

Yea,that is not really a fair comment,HT or anybody else has not referred to skin color as a deciding factor,so why even go down that road?

When is a lie not a lie but a variation of the truth?

"We were told months back that there is a two year vetting process by the state department.

But now we find out that is not really true.

They registered with the UN refugee agency and underwent a series of interviews and checks, before they were recommended for resettlement.

At first, it seemed they would be sent to Sweden. Then there was talk of Finland. “Then they told us, no, no, you will go to America,” said Faez, who asked to be identified by his first name alone because he still has family in Syria.


Finally, after a further round of screening, the family was accepted as refugees by the US – a country they knew little about."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-texas-dallas


So now we know the refugee path.

They leave their country and go to a UN sponsored refugee camp,then the UN does the checks and tells the host countries ,we have say,1000 ready to go.

For the past three years at least it has been with what country has conflict and has refugees as a result of take your pick,Afghanistan,Somalia,Pakistan,take your pick they have been relocating them here for years by the thousands.

The UN does the checks and the vetting not the US,because who is going to divert the resources to check thousands of refugees and how do one even do that.

Okay Hoover had files on everybody,but now do you go to a war torn country and ask the warlord or existing gov for a reference?

Ask a terrorist sponsored organization if this guy is okay?

Why all of the sudden Syria,do we really know what it is about to begin with? We chastised Russia for air strikes against Assad's forces but yet we have this Bolg or website with the last posting in 2012 that says different.

Read it,very interesting.

http://www.americansyrians.com/syria/?page=2

Plausible deniability


We are in the big picture and not individuals or make up a collective in the Governments eye,
Say for instance you bring in 100,000 refugees and one sneaks past as a radical,he or she blows up a building killing 100.

So 100,000 were brought in at the sacrifice of 100,then it will be,"well because we were overwhelmed and could not supply the resources to vet everybody we let the UN handle it.

Sorry we dropped the ball.

So back to Syrians in Detroit.

I will never happen,why?

A:The unemployment rate is to high,the city cannot absorb the low skilled workers until they can be skilled.

B:There is little public transportation to move the masses to the surrounding burbs were the job core base is.

They need cars then,can you add 10,000 cars tomorrow to the streets?

C: They need services,Police,fire,ambulance,city services that are somewhat weak currently,can you put an additional 10,000 on top of that?

So it is clear that the city is not in the position to except that number,so why the proposal?

They knew it was impossible and it would seem that this is just a media ploy to gain support in the end.What were the motives?

[takascar]

Did you have any ancestors that perhaps came in through Ellis Island or other ports of entry in the 19th or early 20th century? Did they meet all those criteria? "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" That's engraved on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Of course, it seems many here want to close that door once those huddled masses start to have a slightly darker skin tone or a different religion than the poor, non-English-speaking, uneducated European immigrants who came before them...

The stuff on the pedestal is just political clap-trap. Thats not the way the world works. We let people in when it BENEFITS our country. Thats the way it should be.

[Richard]

No, that would be illegal. If you marry for purposes of immigration that's a felony and you will probably be jailed and deported.

The reason the U.S. has undocumented immigrants is because there's no current legal path for them. There is no way a laborer from Guatemala can get to the U.S. legally absent family connections. We need a guest worker program like most first world nations.

Where have you been,we live in a system of pay to play and immigration is a revenue source.

The overstay visa rule is this

Overstay 90 days and you get a 3 year re-entry ban.

Overstay 1 year and a day and it becomes a 10 year re-entry ban.

The only person that can reverse the ban is the United states attorney general.

Do not want the ban? pay the $2500 "fine" at the airport when leaving and no ban.

It costs up to $5000 dollars to marry and bring your spouse to the states legally and years in time.

The system is set up to fast track with illegal marriage and it rarely goes after anybody.

We are no different then any other country,if you have the dollar you receive citizenship.

Panama is the cool one,all you need is a pension of $1800 a month and it becomes automatic and if you are retired you get 50% off of movies and restaurants etc.

[canuck]

Does Canada offer citizenship 'jus sanguinis' [[bloodline)? And as to birth location, I thought the US was fairly unique in this. ?

My understanding is that Canada is much more liberal than the US in granting refugee status. If an arrival claims refugee status, the system takes years to adjudicate their claim. Can you enlighted us?

Back to your point.... a possible driver for your Iraqis is family reunification. Immigration isn't just driven by flight from, but sometimes flight to.

Well, I can't tell you how involved the process for refugee claims is, how fast and fair it is in Canada. The election campaign here has pushed Harper to promise helping 10000 get refugee status in Canada from Iraq and Syria.

[Wesley Mouch]

The stuff on the pedestal is just political clap-trap. Thats not the way the world works. We let people in when it BENEFITS our country. Thats the way it should be.

What makes a nation? Just the lucky first in the door? Whoever can supplant the indigenous population? Raw power? Genetics?

Certainly nations and borders are more than just private clubs, but also moral entities created by men to help further mankind.

We may open and close our doors based on impact to us, but I believe we also should be attentive to what's good for the world, for our future, and for the future of all.