Are houses being burned purposely in Detroit

[G-DDT]

Profound ignorance abounds here as to the way things really go down around in the world.

I can give my own personal accounts about how I saw police sucking down nitrous oxide with hookers at many afterhours and then working in cahoots with rival party promoters to shut down other gigs [[or how they plant drugs on people, etc.), but it seems the same pig-headed, thick-skinned mentalities are going to think what they are going to think regardless of what evidence [[be it historical, be it cultural, be it recent and localized, be it personal) you provide for them [[and they would be just unimaginative enough to go pruning down this very post to the "pig-hearted thick-skinned mentalities" part and then try to direct it back at yours truly and call that wit.).

At least consider the following:

1.) Read beyond Malthus's and Ayn Rand's attempts to save "mankind' from "lack of surplus" and "overcrowding" with their theories, and see how they go far enough to justify the idea of letting poverty go unaided, and allowing certain areas of misery and "necessary evil" to flourish [[even with little pushes-after all there was a thread one started about whether there was proof that federal agencies were involved with bringing drugs into impoverished regions, and although I can't seem to find it for the time being, I believe certain older contributors remember it, and it would be interesting to see if they will make the effort to track it down and offer us a link...yes?).

2.) Look at all the recent bloody police brutalities that have gone down within a year's time alone and how the press trims away certain suspicious aspects with each re-telling.

3.) Read this article http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/1...ictims_of_pasteven if it happens in Chicago, you can believe it is happening profoundly elsewhere [[do I have to dredge up stories I've heard personally about police in New Orleans, L.A., New York, or Boston-like when the PD were coercing junkies to pin false accusations on a guy for the murder of Mrs. Charles Stuart?). It's only by efforts of the F.B.I. [[and maybe many, many years of complaints filed) that member of the K.K.K. were rooted out of the penal systems in Florida.

4.) Consider heavily that once certain precedents get set like these you see how the margins are open for any number of things to happen. I can bring up the positive as well as the over-whelming negative about the police, but just who do any of you folks think you are p*ssywaxing by putting cops on a pedestal?

[Dbest]

Is this the thread G-DDT ?

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ght=feds+drugs

[Wesley Mouch]

Profound ignorance abounds here as to the way things really go down around in the world...

The existence of fringe thinking on the right doesn't prove that they have any power to control DPD. Quite a stretch.

Believe it or not, many on the right -- like me for example -- wish the best for Detroit and sympathize with the social goals of the left. We just disagree on methods.

The right doesn't really act as you describe. Although of course there is a fringe who would like to.

Can the vast right-wing conspiracy really control DPD officers to do their bidding, and to keep quiet about it? If so, I'm impressed by their power.

Too bad they couldn't stop the stock market correction that has reduced wealth inequality and hurt the working persons pension holdings while at the same time enforcing morality in Detroit by burning houses.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Profound ignorance abounds here as to the way things really go down around in the world..... who do any of you folks think you are p*ssywaxing by putting cops on a pedestal?

Glad someone can post this stuff, because if I did I would get burned at the stake for it.


Honky Tonk, you are making the assumption that everyone plays by the same rules because of the law. We aren't even talking about the same playingfield, might as well be discussing planet Mars.

Take a look at this streetview, do a 180, and tell me that the police give a fuck about law enforcement:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4445...7i13312!8i6656

These aren't cops raiding and burning a dopehouse in Corktown, where connected squeaky wheels educated enough to know their rights and can afford attorneys live. Who probably aren't suffering from decades of poverty and live a block away from police headquarters. Nobody is getting shot over a 5 dollar rock there, but they do at the Sunoco gas station around the corner from where I'm talking about, that just got fronted on local TV by Chief Craig for selling some pieces of brillo. You really think the police or Craig would actually hold a couple of his wash-outs accountable for burning up a few shitty dopehouses in a shitty dope hood where junkies smoke crack and shoot up on an outdoor couch and pirate hookers walk around all day everyday?

Did he care about the elderly guy that lived behind that gas station, who called the police numerous times but would rarely respond, who froze to death on his front fukin porch last winter because he couldn't afford his heat bill? I can guarantee you that our dead neighbor knew better, and that's why people like him won't say shit to the police, and I don't blame him. I don't think he even owned a camera phone to take a video with... hell he didn't need one. He watched the whole neighborhood burn down over the last 30 years with his very own eyes.

Funny part is that the people who do take video probably posted it on their "instee" so they could show their friends how cool they are for hanging out in the traphood. But not everyone is a social media whore looking to make a name for themselves by outing the police. And most aren't quick to be the martyr for virtue either. They don't even know the meaning of the words.

[Honky Tonk]

Glad someone can post this stuff, because if I did I would get burned at the stake for it.


Honky Tonk, you are making the assumption that everyone plays by the same rules because of the law. We aren't even talking about the same playingfield, might as well be discussing planet Mars.

Take a look at this streetview, do a 180, and tell me that the police give a fuck about law enforcement:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4445...7i13312!8i6656

These aren't cops raiding and burning a dopehouse in Corktown, where connected squeaky wheels educated enough to know their rights and can afford attorneys live. Who probably aren't suffering from decades of poverty and live a block away from police headquarters. Nobody is getting shot over a 5 dollar rock there, but they do at the Sunoco gas station around the corner from where I'm talking about, that just got fronted on local TV by Chief Craig for selling some pieces of brillo. You really think the police or Craig would actually hold a couple of his wash-outs accountable for burning up a few shitty dopehouses in a shitty dope hood where junkies smoke crack and shoot up on an outdoor couch and pirate hookers walk around all day everyday?

Did he care about the elderly guy that lived behind that gas station, who called the police numerous times but would rarely respond, who froze to death on his front fukin porch last winter because he couldn't afford his heat bill? I can guarantee you that our dead neighbor knew better, and that's why people like him won't say shit to the police, and I don't blame him. I don't think he even owned a camera phone to take a video with... hell he didn't need one. He watched the whole neighborhood burn down over the last 30 years with his very own eyes.

Funny part is that the people who do take video probably posted it on their "instee" so they could show their friends how cool they are for hanging out in the traphood. But not everyone is a social media whore looking to make a name for themselves by outing the police. And most aren't quick to be the martyr for virtue either. They don't even know the meaning of the words.

Wow, What a shitty neighborhood. If you're so concerned about your loved ones, and repercussions from the DPD, aren't you concerned they're living in that area?

[Wesley Mouch]

Glad someone can post this stuff, because if I did I would get burned at the stake for it.


Honky Tonk, you are making the assumption that everyone plays by the same rules because of the law. We aren't even talking about the same playingfield, might as well be discussing planet Mars.

Take a look at this streetview, do a 180, and tell me that the police give a fuck about law enforcement:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4445...7i13312!8i6656

These aren't cops raiding and burning a dopehouse in Corktown, where connected squeaky wheels educated enough to know their rights and can afford attorneys live. Who probably aren't suffering from decades of poverty and live a block away from police headquarters. Nobody is getting shot over a 5 dollar rock there, but they do at the Sunoco gas station around the corner from where I'm talking about, that just got fronted on local TV by Chief Craig for selling some pieces of brillo. You really think the police or Craig would actually hold a couple of his wash-outs accountable for burning up a few shitty dopehouses in a shitty dope hood where junkies smoke crack and shoot up on an outdoor couch and pirate hookers walk around all day everyday?

Did he care about the elderly guy that lived behind that gas station, who called the police numerous times but would rarely respond, who froze to death on his front fukin porch last winter because he couldn't afford his heat bill? I can guarantee you that our dead neighbor knew better, and that's why people like him won't say shit to the police, and I don't blame him. I don't think he even owned a camera phone to take a video with... hell he didn't need one. He watched the whole neighborhood burn down over the last 30 years with his very own eyes.

Funny part is that the people who do take video probably posted it on their "instee" so they could show their friends how cool they are for hanging out in the traphood. But not everyone is a social media whore looking to make a name for themselves by outing the police. And most aren't quick to be the martyr for virtue either. They don't even know the meaning of the words.

Fine emotional argument.

So what's your solution?

You can indict the cops and the system all day long, but do you think the world would be better without cops?

Cops and the justice system have massive problems -- but even Detroit will be worse off by attacks on cops. Work instead on reform.

[DetroitBoy]

Fine emotional argument.

So what's your solution?

You can indict the cops and the system all day long, but do you think the world would be better without cops?

Cops and the justice system have massive problems -- but even Detroit will be worse off by attacks on cops. Work instead on reform.

Miss Thing Gwenivere doesn't have no time to think about solutions when she's flappin' those gums to everyone about how oppressed she's been all her life by her family, The Man and anyone else she's on a rant about at that particular time.

I would love to see Miss Thing discuss the following with Peggy Hubband, a black mom from St Louis. She has lived through Ferguson and all the unrest this summer. Here's her opinion:

http://youtu.be/tzQovm8j8_k

[Dbest]

You can indict the cops and the system all day long, but do you think the world would be better without cops?

Thanks for inserting the straw man argument.

I don't think she is saying "Fuck the police", more like "Where the fuck are the police?" after no deputy shows up on a break in call. The police situation in Detroit is sketchy at best. They don't like to respond, there has been a lot of evidence of corruption, and they have done a shit job keeping the city safe the last 50 years. Crime is one the first things people think of with Detroit.

Should Gweniverse be making excuses for the "system" from ground zero of dysfunction in Detroit/Michigan/USA? She lives in broken. This is life and death she has to worry about, not just some debate fodder. But go ahead and continue to take shots at the messenger.


Craig told residents to "arm themselves" for a reason, thats code speak for "we cant even pretend to be able to protect you"...

The irony of your straw-man argument is that most neighborhoods DONT HAVE THE AID OF POLICE PROTECTION! Heres an example:

[Dumpling]

Recent crime reports in Detroit haven't been posted on the http://www.crimemapping.com/
website, but if one juggles the dates to start from January, and looks at DUI icons only
[[clear all crime types first, then click on the weaving car icon) one sees that the communities surrounding Detroit seemingly have more individuals driving while impaired than Detroit
does. So for instance, there is plenty of DUI icon coverage on Main Street in Royal Oak
which continues down Woodward Avenue through Pleasant Ridge and Ferndale, then....not
many icons in Detroit at all, though there are more of them south of Grand Boulevard.

[Dan Wesson]

Thanks for the link Dbest.

Having never been exposed to Charlie's vids, although I knew of him. I hooked up the laptop to the Flatscreen and using Kodi/XBMC media player I went to Youtube found Charlies Channel and watched Charlies American Series one after the other using autoplay.

Charlie and Company produce some good work. I like what I saw.

Breakfast with Charlie today. Thumbs up.

I thought that Squatter piece was great, as is the U of M Harbaugh story.

[Dumpling]

I took a peek around Gwenivere's neighborhood. I couldn't find any scrap tires [[didn't
look too hard) but there were a fair number of mattresses. Scrap tires and mattresses
are two things that can trickle down from richer areas to poorer areas, then end up in
vacant lots and on dead end streets and in front of the foreclosed house that has been
scrapped out. I'd sign a petition for a five dollar recycling deposit on mattresses.
Some consideration could be given at the state level to a special tax credit for donating
very good used tires or mattresses, similar to what happens now for cars.

http://byebyemattress.com/participating-states/

[Dbest]

Thanks for the link Dbest.

Having never been exposed to Charlie's vids, although I knew of him. I hooked up the laptop to the Flatscreen and using Kodi/XBMC media player I went to Youtube found Charlies Channel and watched Charlies American Series one after the other using autoplay.

Charlie and Company produce some good work. I like what I saw.

Breakfast with Charlie today. Thumbs up.

I thought that Squatter piece was great, as is the U of M Harbaugh story.

Is Charlie hokey? You bet. But at their core his reports cover realities that mainstream media refuses to touch. He does it with a touch of humor and makes it human. Glad you enjoyed it, check out his trip down the Rouge River.

[Wesley Mouch]

Thanks for inserting the straw man argument.

I don't think she is saying "Fuck the police", more like "Where the fuck are the police?" after no deputy shows up on a break in call. The police situation in Detroit is sketchy at best. They don't like to respond, there has been a lot of evidence of corruption, and they have done a shit job keeping the city safe the last 50 years. Crime is one the first things people think of with Detroit.

Should Gweniverse be making excuses for the "system" from ground zero of dysfunction in Detroit/Michigan/USA? She lives in broken. This is life and death she has to worry about, not just some debate fodder. But go ahead and continue to take shots at the messenger.


Craig told residents to "arm themselves" for a reason, thats code speak for "we cant even pretend to be able to protect you"...

The irony of your straw-man argument is that most neighborhoods DONT HAVE THE AID OF POLICE PROTECTION! Heres an example:

You're right. I brought my prejudices to the discussion and assumed she was 'anti-cop'.

[mwilbert]

Even if you think the DPD doesn't always do the correct thing, it seems reasonable to think that it is likely that if uniformed DPD members were continually burning down houses that someone would have video of it, and I wouldn't think it would be difficult to provide the footage to the media anonymously if one were concerned about reprisals.

I saw the fire department checking hydrants in the University District last week, so there is at least some attention being paid to whether they are working or not there--admittedly that is not a neglected neighborhood.

[Dbest]

You're right. I brought my prejudices to the discussion and assumed she was 'anti-cop'.

i appreciate you reading what I had say.

[detroitsgwenivere]

I was gonna change my screen name to flapping gums just for you Dboy, but it wouldn't let me.

I don't "hate" cops, am polite and cautious around them, but I'd be lying if I said that my perception of them isn't colored by the numerous and unnecessary run-ins we've had over the years [[mostly suburban or gangsquad). I do dislike the system and culture of law enforcement in general, the war on drugs, the militarization of the police, the surveillance state, asset forfeiture, and the ranking system used to promote these folks. I believe that these are the institutions that need to change in order for the symptoms to improve. And muggy weather, cant stand that either...

I think there's a disconnect between what I've described and what some of you are picturing in your mind. This wasn't cops pulling up in their white patrol cars wearing blue uniforms with visible name tags and dress hats laughing up the residents while setting up some controlled burn. These are unmarked raid vans full of scary ass jump-out boys wearing black vests, tactical boots and backwards baseball caps, screaming obscenities and threating to kill you if you look at them. Who grab you by your throat and shoot the dogs and drag screaming kids out the front door by their arms. You know, the stuff they wont show you on Fox 2 News.

You don't see tires laying around this hood Dumpling, because the guys at Kelly's Tires on 8 mile found some lucrative reason to start collecting them on a regular basis. We do get stripped cars, boats, home renovation rubbish, and piles of items that come from the cleaning out of rental properties [[clothes and toys), and the neighbors attempt to clean this stuff up and mow the empty fields from time to time.

[Towne Cluber]

It stands to reason that if a "right-wing" affiliated group [[police, government, business interests, etc.) was involved with burning down houses...that a "left-wing" affiliated group could also be involved with such activities.

In terms of the culture of law enforcement and "the system", are those the only cultures that need to change? Does the societal culture of a given area [[and/or in general) also need to change in order for improvement or is the status quo sufficient?

[Dumpling]

I searched DetroitYes for Gildersleeve and there is a discussion of Hal Peary
[[The Great Gildersleeve) here as well as the famous Faygo Boat Commercial
showing him as the Boblo Boat Choir Director himself. [[Other than this
commercial he is before my time).
Coincidentally if you search YouTube for "Gildersleeve Drug House" you find a
person doing the edgiest of neighborhood watches on Detroit's East Side.
If you look carefully at some of the Gildersleeve videos it appears [[to me at least)
that burning drug houses down is sanctioned by some neighbors as a lesser evil
as compared to the rest of the neighborhood being burned down. One of the videos
shows a couple inside of a drug house. The man is holding none other than
Detroit's own Faygo in his hand.
It does not appear to me that the police or fire are directly implicated in burning
drug houses down.

[G-DDT]

Is this the thread G-DDT ?

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ght=feds+drugs

Not exactly the one I was thinking of [[as I still visualize it in me gulliver), but I do appreciate you posting it [[as it was clearly one of the trademark pro-drug threads from a former member).

To quote Dave Chapelle "I don't hate police, but I'm scared to death of them." In my case, I don't hate them, I just don't trust them [[and I'm fully aware of the same hypocrisy I put myself in as R. Crumb did in his comic recollections of the '60s-how he in one panel wanted to throw a Molotov at a passing cop car, and in the next, he was lamenting walking apprehensively through a bad neighborhood wishing a cop car would pass by.). I am reminded of how a police man looked nonchalantly down at his watch and knew just when a certain church was being bombed across town while interviewing the wife of a prominent civil rights leader regarding her house being bombed in one of Taylor Branch's books.

I know not all cops are bad, and the corruption pervades, the more I think the good ones get set up to get shot [[like at a gas station) like Serpico did. Start a thread about good experiences regarding cops and give me some time, and I might be able to piece together a sizable account of decent police encounters I've had.