Failure of Gas Station to accept Canadian Credit card causes robbery? Man Sues.

[Wesley Mouch]

By pin you mean pin and chip? My U.S. issued credit cards all have chips now. I've never had a problem using them in a gas pump for credit purchases. But I never use the debit option.

Even before that you've always been able to use your cards at U.S. gas pumps the same way you would use them in an ATM machine. If your card worked in an ATM machine then it should have worked at the gas pump.

I've only been not able to use my cards in the automatic kiosks in European train stations, and that was because my cards didn't have chips at the time.

The problem the gent from the north had wasn't a technological problem, it was an implementation issue.

Some gas stations, well actually a lot of gas stations, require you to enter your 5-digit US Zip code to purchase. The banks give the gas stations lower credit card charges if they require matching zip code entry. So you tend to see this mostly in areas with higher fraud.

If you don't have a 5-digit US Zip code -- which would be most foreigners -- you can't use the card at the pump. Canadians I know are well-aware of this, and either have a workaround from their bank -- or just don't use credit.

It seems you may not understand how Chip & PIN works...? You slip your card into the machine -- and you leave it in. Then it prompts you for your PIN. You don't swipe the card at all. Both for credit and debit. This make sure that the person using the card is really you. I've yet to see a US credit card machine used with CHIP/PIN technology. But I also have mostly CHIP/PIN cards now as well.

[iheartthed]

The problem the gent from the north had wasn't a technological problem, it was an implementation issue.

Some gas stations, well actually a lot of gas stations, require you to enter your 5-digit US Zip code to purchase. The banks give the gas stations lower credit card charges if they require matching zip code entry. So you tend to see this mostly in areas with higher fraud.

If you don't have a 5-digit US Zip code -- which would be most foreigners -- you can't use the card at the pump. Canadians I know are well-aware of this, and either have a workaround from their bank -- or just don't use credit.

It seems you may not understand how Chip & PIN works...? You slip your card into the machine -- and you leave it in. Then it prompts you for your PIN. You don't swipe the card at all. Both for credit and debit. This make sure that the person using the card is really you. I've yet to see a US credit card machine used with CHIP/PIN technology. But I also have mostly CHIP/PIN cards now as well.

The point is, as I have said several times, you can use your pin and operate the gas pump just like an ATM machine. If they are able to use ATMs in the U.S. then they are able to activate the gas pumps by entering their pin number. When you use the pin you don't need to enter a zip code. And all U.S. machines are equipped to handle it since all chip cards still have magnetic strips.

[wolverine]

Well even then, it's not MasterCard's fault that some asshole robbed him.

He should have done his research before visiting America. It's not the gas station's responsibility to inform him [[especially if he didn't ask). I still don't see the reason for the lawsuit, other than trying to get some big bucks.

People are under the expectation that they are secure at a service station. Now we all know truthfully that is naive, but the legal system doesn't see it that way. If businesses didn't get sued for people getting injured or robbed on premises, they wouldn't carry insurance.

[wolverine]

The point is, as I have said several times, you can use your pin and operate the gas pump just like an ATM machine. If they are able to use ATMs in the U.S. then they are able to activate the gas pumps by entering their pin number. When you use the pin you don't need to enter a zip code. And all U.S. machines are equipped to handle it since all chip cards still have magnetic strips.

Never use a PIN at a gas station pump unless it's an emergency. This is one of the reasons behind people getting their PIN stolen, cards scanned and their accounts wiped clean. ATM's are more secure, although identities can still be stolen from ATM's it's far less likely to happen than at a gas pump.

[Meddle]

All else aside, the Zip thing at pumps IS a retailer issue and is specific to the location. Even within the same oil company brand, some stations use it while others don't. It's not something required by the card companies.

[Zacha341]

Yep. Some do some don't. You either get a prompt for one or the other, not both. I prefer the pumps requiring a PIN. Had my debit card stolen along with my ID by a thief with the full intention of plying the 'get your gas for you discount' scam at gas stations that allow folks to hang-out with that hustle! I NEVER allow anyone to provide me discounted gas, for reduced cash payment.

The crooks had my zip code making use of my bank card a breeze -- running my card up $145+ fast. My bank knowing I wasn't refilling every few minutes texted me, canceling the card and thankfully refunded my money. I went into the police station and made a report.

I find the PIN only pumps more in the suburbs. They need to have that option in the city where the 'stolen card gas discount' scam is more prevalent.

Which raises the question of why he didn't just use the pin? I believe all gas pumps allow you to use it that way as a debit purchase.

[Zacha341]

You're right. I have 'chipped' Bank card but it's still a risk. Cash is best as you get more gas paying cash, so I just try to go to a station in an area where I can get out of the car and go in with LESS risk.

Never use a PIN at a gas station pump unless it's an emergency. This is one of the reasons behind people getting their PIN stolen, cards scanned and their accounts wiped clean. ATM's are more secure, although identities can still be stolen from ATM's it's far less likely to happen than at a gas pump.

[Honky Tonk]

Had my debit card stolen along with my ID by a thief with the full intention of plying the 'get your gas for you discount' scam at gas stations that allow folks to hang-out with that hustle! I NEVER allow anyone to provide me discounted gas, for reduced cash payment.

I take it you mean physically stolen not electronically? Good for you, I never buy anything 5 finger discounted either.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Items physically removed. Yeah the 5 finger discount keeps this crap profitable. No thank you. As a rule I will not go to gas stations with folks handing-out.

[Meddle]

Had my debit card stolen along with my ID

The crooks had my zip code making use of my bank card a breeze --

That wouldn't work with me. My 'billing address', the one used for Zip verification is in a different zip code than my residence address that appears on IDs. My home Zip wouldn't get them anything.

[Honky Tonk]

^^^ Items physically removed. Yeah the 5 finger discount keeps this crap profitable. No thank you. As a rule I will not go to gas stations with folks handing-out.

Depends what they're handing out, you know? [[is it too late in the day for my shenanigans?)

[Wesley Mouch]

You're right. I have 'chipped' Bank card but it's still a risk. Cash is best as you get more gas paying cash, so I just try to go to a station in an area where I can get out of the car and go in with LESS risk.

I don't think anyone here has really used Chip & PIN. You understand that this isn't the same as using a PIN with the stripe, right? You slide the card in -- and then you get prompted for PIN while the CHIP is inside the machine. Its a whole different system. Has nothing to do with using a PIN [[or zip code) with a mag-stripe card.

"Visa chip cards are not only more secure, they are also simple to use. Chip cards and terminals work together to protect in-store payments. A unique one-time code is generated behind-the-scenes that is needed for the transaction to be approved - a feature that is virtually impossible to replicate in a counterfeit card."

http://usa.visa.com/personal/securit...ards/index.jsp

[Richard]

In Fl the service stations have for years required the zip code entry,credit or debit,but having said that when my friend comes over from England and uses his card it never asks for a zip.

But he always calls the provider when leaving the country and informs them where he is going as an experienced traveler.

The gov after 9-11 spent over a billion dollars on a chipped id card for entry into the nations sea ports it never has worked and was found easy to fake.Now it is a billion dollar picture ID card.

[Zacha341]

Good points. I have noted that the in store use when my chipped card has been used it is a different kind of terminal. Not standard slide. What a mess, but I like the convenience of using a card at the pumps rather than going in. Maybe I should go with a dedicated gas card.

I don't think anyone here has really used Chip & PIN. You understand that this isn't the same as using a PIN with the stripe, right? You slide the card in -- and then you get prompted for PIN while the CHIP is inside the machine. Its a whole different system. Has nothing to do with using a PIN [[or zip code) with a mag-stripe card.

"Visa chip cards are not only more secure, they are also simple to use. Chip cards and terminals work together to protect in-store payments. A unique one-time code is generated behind-the-scenes that is needed for the transaction to be approved - a feature that is virtually impossible to replicate in a counterfeit card."

http://usa.visa.com/personal/securit...ards/index.jsp

[Zacha341]

Mostly bull they are handing out...... but far too much HANGING out! Ugh. I just keep driving when I see that.

Depends what they're handing out, you know? [[is it too late in the day for my shenanigans?)

[Honky Tonk]

Mostly bull they are handing out...... but far too much HANGING out! Ugh. I just keep driving when I see that.

No harm meant, Zacha341, just teasing. I used to be an avid Detroit small business booster, made it a point to fill up in the City. But the stories keep getting weirder, and I don't want to end up a statistic. I still get gas occasionally but it's usually a 5 spot, just enough to get me going. And I agree, if it looks iffy, move on.

[Zacha341]

I know...... I am trying to fill up when I get gas now, the less trips the better.

[ThunderTrap]

I have been by this station. I am sure that they receive a large number of Canadians being right on the I-75. They have a big sign enticing drivers off to fill up. So, was it too much of an expense to post a sign by the pumps, advising of this MasterCard workaround? MasterCard cannot say it was hidden on some webpage...nobody would have anticipated the problem and gone there to look in advance of a trip. It was the legal responsibility of each bank to have sent written advisement to each cardholder. Many banks did...but Canadian Tire did not, the owning Billes Family being notoriously tight-fisted. A few of my friends called up CT and asked, and their customer "service" people did not know of such work-around. I see in the article that there were 70+ PAGES of incidents around that station...but the station had no security. Big failure there, plus entrusting the station to Yemeni Nationals??? Right. That's the country which is high on my list of secure places. BP lets them put up their logo and colors, but then says they can't do anything...again, right. Maybe you and I should open up a station and say "BP" and see what they say. Nothing like standing behind your retailing network, like McDonald's or Holiday Inn does. At BP, guess anything goes. Hopefully the courts will teach both BP and Canadian Tire a big lesson. Both of them COULD have done better, SHOULD have done better, but did things on the cheap and lazy rather than look out for their customers. The only person who goes for 3 months to Yemen, per the article -- an al Qaeda agent.

[SyGolden48236]

I have been by this station. I am sure that they receive a large number of Canadians being right on the I-75. They have a big sign enticing drivers off to fill up. So, was it too much of an expense to post a sign by the pumps, advising of this MasterCard workaround? MasterCard cannot say it was hidden on some webpage...nobody would have anticipated the problem and gone there to look in advance of a trip. It was the legal responsibility of each bank to have sent written advisement to each cardholder. Many banks did...but Canadian Tire did not, the owning Billes Family being notoriously tight-fisted. A few of my friends called up CT and asked, and their customer "service" people did not know of such work-around. I see in the article that there were 70+ PAGES of incidents around that station...but the station had no security. Big failure there, plus entrusting the station to Yemeni Nationals??? Right. That's the country which is high on my list of secure places. BP lets them put up their logo and colors, but then says they can't do anything...again, right. Maybe you and I should open up a station and say "BP" and see what they say. Nothing like standing behind your retailing network, like McDonald's or Holiday Inn does. At BP, guess anything goes. Hopefully the courts will teach both BP and Canadian Tire a big lesson. Both of them COULD have done better, SHOULD have done better, but did things on the cheap and lazy rather than look out for their customers. The only person who goes for 3 months to Yemen, per the article -- an al Qaeda agent.

You make some pretty serious allegations in your rant. Al Qaeda agent? Do you have proof that the station owner is affiliated with the terrorist organization? If not you are opening yourself up to slander charges.


But the bottom line is that this unfortunate Canadian travel expert did not heed one of the most true and important pieces of advice about this area: NEVER BUY GAS IN DETROIT.....EVER!

[ThunderTrap]

Read the article. It specifically states that the owner has "gone to Yemen for 3 months". Can you think of ANY reason to go to Yemen for even 1 day? That had to be the most serious PR error of all time...for the dumb-arse who said that to even admit to going to Yemen. Why not just say "he's away"? They're the ones who made sure to tell us all that he was in Yemen, the anal tract of the globe. Is he a citizen or just a passerby investor? I would hope that the NSA takes a look at this. Has anyone in or from Yemen ever done good for America?

[ThunderTrap]

But what really makes me angry is how Big Business puts no value on life. They could care less if 1 of their customers gets injured, has his life ruined, dies...of course, we all have to cry when they lose money and need government bailouts...we all have to cry if a bank is robbed [[Heaven help us, how will they ever replace the piddly amount of cash that was taken)...but a client gets robbed??? Not our problem, hope you die you miserable piece of crap. But if our corporate jet crashes and our CEO dies? What a tragedy! Hypocritical basturds. As a previous poster stated, the station should have had insurance...so why not just have the insurance settle and move on??? This is a case where the negative coverage for both companies will ultimately cost them more than had they been proactive from the start [[i.e. a sign by the pump, a mailing to cardholders).

[Scottathew]

Read the article. It specifically states that the owner has "gone to Yemen for 3 months". Can you think of ANY reason to go to Yemen for even 1 day? That had to be the most serious PR error of all time...for the dumb-arse who said that to even admit to going to Yemen. Why not just say "he's away"? They're the ones who made sure to tell us all that he was in Yemen, the anal tract of the globe. Is he a citizen or just a passerby investor? I would hope that the NSA takes a look at this. Has anyone in or from Yemen ever done good for America?

WOW, that's a pretty damn broad-brush you're painting with.

[downtownguy]

Read the article. It specifically states that the owner has "gone to Yemen for 3 months". Can you think of ANY reason to go to Yemen for even 1 day? That had to be the most serious PR error of all time...for the dumb-arse who said that to even admit to going to Yemen. Why not just say "he's away"? They're the ones who made sure to tell us all that he was in Yemen, the anal tract of the globe. Is he a citizen or just a passerby investor? I would hope that the NSA takes a look at this. Has anyone in or from Yemen ever done good for America?

Seriously?

[iheartthed]

Never use a PIN at a gas station pump unless it's an emergency. This is one of the reasons behind people getting their PIN stolen, cards scanned and their accounts wiped clean. ATM's are more secure, although identities can still be stolen from ATM's it's far less likely to happen than at a gas pump.

Agreed. And I never use the pin unless at a secured ATM [[in NYC they have many ATMs which sit outside and it's common for thieves to stick scanners into the card slot to get the the PIN). But the argument of the suit is that the inability to use the credit card in the gas pump contributed to the robbery. I'm just pointing out that there were other options available that did not require him to walk into the station.

[ThunderTrap]

None of the options, if there were any, were ever described in the cardholders' manual, in any updates from the issuing bank, or in signage at the pump. The station knew they had a large Canadian clientele, and should have posted signage; the bank knew of these machines not accepting their cards, but failed to [[at least this particular bank...others did respect their commitment to their cardholders and advised them) send out a known workaround solution. Both parties chose to save what amounts to pennies in relation to their total sales, hoping to self-insure against mishaps. Well, it's coming back to bite them in the arse, with lawsuits and negative publicity in a viral social media world. Their bet failed. I cry for them [[not).