Detroit Block Parties Hosts

[bailey]

My post was deleted. I stand by every single thing in it as DG's post encapsulates the answer to the questions posed by the owners of this site..."what went wrong" and "what can we do to fix it" What went wrong was letting folks like DG run the place. People who got it their head that the rules of society don't apply to them. That simply behaving like a responsible taxpaying adult is selling out to the man. How to fix it? keep doing what Detroit has been doing since the removal of the last regime to agree with her....namely; making it really unpleasant for her and those who share her opinion to live in the D.

none of that is a personal attack...it's responding to her lament [[which i had hoped was simply sarcasm...but appear to be serious.) on being somehow harmed by the actual enforcement of basic laws and societal norms [[which is still here) and her direct response to me [[which is still here).

[gumby]

My post was deleted. I stand by every single thing in it as DG's post encapsulates the answer to the questions posed by the owners of this site..."what went wrong" and "what can we do to fix it" What went wrong was letting folks like DG run the place. People who got it their head that the rules of society don't apply to them. That simply behaving like a responsible taxpaying adult is selling out to the man. How to fix it? keep doing what Detroit has been doing since the removal of the last regime to agree with her....namely; making it really unpleasant for her and those who share her opinion to live in the D.

none of that is a personal attack...it's responding to her lament [[which i had hoped was simply sarcasm...but appear to be serious.) on being somehow harmed by the actual enforcement of basic laws and societal norms [[which is still here) and her direct response to me [[which is still here).

Well stated Bailey.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Yeah, because smoking weed and drag racing are such a colossal infringement of society's norms... nevermind that we were discussing a drag strip on the fairgrounds a decade or so ago [[bad location, great idea) and that several thousand Detroiters decriminalized marijuana through a ballot initiative.

Bailey, the reason your post was deleted is because in your effort to intimidate me you made a threat. You know, the kinda stuff criminals do... Funny how quickly people can devolve into name calling, threats and bulling in their attempt to silence another's perspective when someone doesn't agree with them. This is a card you've occasionally pulled for as long as I've been on this site. And you talk about civility.

None of you have to agree with me, but we can have a discussion about it. If anybody is interested in knowing about why myself and other Detroiters feel they way we do so we can start a dialogue and perhaps come up with some creative solutions, lets have at it. If you're intention is anything other than that, then perhaps you are on the wrong site.

[gumby]

Drag racing is a highly dangerous sport that should only be done in designated areas not city streets or parks where an unsuspecting individual could be harmed, not to mention the gambling aspect you referenced when talking about racing for pinks is very much illegal. In regards to the marijuana issue, while I personally do not smoke I generally do not care when others do but don't care when they whine about getting introuble for it seeing as it is still against the law. I don't care that a bunch of Detroiters voted to decriminalize it because it is still illegal at the state level and the federal level which negates your vote. Sorry.

[Wheels]

Yeah, because smoking weed and drag racing are such a colossal infringement of society's norms... nevermind that we were discussing a drag strip on the fairgrounds a decade or so ago [[bad location, great idea) and that several thousand Detroiters decriminalized marijuana through a ballot initiative.

Bailey, the reason your post was deleted is because in your effort to intimidate me you made a threat. You know, the kinda stuff criminals do... Funny how quickly people can devolve into name calling, threats and bulling in their attempt to silence another's perspective when someone doesn't agree with them. This is a card you've occasionally pulled for as long as I've been on this site. And you talk about civility.

None of you have to agree with me, but we can have a discussion about it. If anybody is interested in knowing about why myself and other Detroiters feel they way we do so we can start a dialogue and perhaps come up with some creative solutions, lets have at it. If you're intention is anything other than that, then perhaps you are on the wrong site.

There was never a drag stip proposed for the State Fairgrounds. It was an oval track and is what was there previously along with horse racing.

[detroitsgwenivere]

^^Alright, fair enough. Still was a good idea and not much different than having drag racing in regards to quality of life issues.

[Dan Wesson]

What a bunch of fuddy duddies. Gwen talks about stuff that my friends and I have done growing up in the D. We got caught at times and we got away with way more than our fair share when we were young. We had Belle Isle, Foot of Alter, Foot of Connor, Balduck Park and that was just the East side. We used to drag race on Huber Ave between St. Cyril and Mt.Elliot for money. Cruise the main drags and drink and smoke doobies and chase girls. Get in fights, run from the cops and who ever. It was part of growing up.

Spent a few nights in the pokey too because of our antics. But the cops were more like on our side after a few hours and they sure weren't so militant.

Then we grew out of doing that stuff and raised families.

What's different today? This whole idea of zero tolerance and the excessively authoritarian, oppressive justice system. That's just the half of it. Then have to put up with the crazy ass gang bangers with 9's.

It's serious business now to have rebellious fun.

All in good fun... we love being bad cause it sure feels good.

[canuck]

What a bunch of fuddy duddies. Gwen talks about stuff that my friends and I have done growing up in the D. We got caught at times and we got away with way more than our fair share when we were young. We had Belle Isle, Foot of Alter, Foot of Connor, Balduck Park and that was just the East side. We used to drag race on Huber Ave between St. Cyril and Mt.Elliot for money. Cruise the main drags and drink and smoke doobies and chase girls. Get in fights, run from the cops and who ever. It was part of growing up.

Spent a few nights in the pokey too because of our antics. But the cops were more like on our side after a few hours and they sure weren't so militant.

Then we grew out of doing that stuff and raised families.

What's different today? This whole idea of zero tolerance and the excessively authoritarian, oppressive justice system. That's just the half of it. Then have to put up with the crazy ass gang bangers with 9's.

It's serious business now to have rebellious fun.

All in good fun... we love being bad cause it sure feels good.

I like your post, Dan Wesson. You come across as Lancelot in shining armor coming to the aid of Lady Guinevere.

[pgn421]

Everybody hangs at Rouge Park now

[DetroitBoy]

Everybody hangs at Rouge Park now

Good to know. Hopefully, DPD will start to tighten the belt over there as well before the same type of fool incidents start.

Urban terrorism requires a military type response. Hope they put the hammer down once and for all and stop all this crap decent people have endured for years.

[kanfar]

But did you have guns?

[Richard]

What a bunch of fuddy duddies. Gwen talks about stuff that my friends and I have done growing up in the D. We got caught at times and we got away with way more than our fair share when we were young. We had Belle Isle, Foot of Alter, Foot of Connor, Balduck Park and that was just the East side. We used to drag race on Huber Ave between St. Cyril and Mt.Elliot for money. Cruise the main drags and drink and smoke doobies and chase girls. Get in fights, run from the cops and who ever. It was part of growing up.

Spent a few nights in the pokey too because of our antics. But the cops were more like on our side after a few hours and they sure weren't so militant.

Then we grew out of doing that stuff and raised families.

What's different today? This whole idea of zero tolerance and the excessively authoritarian, oppressive justice system. That's just the half of it. Then have to put up with the crazy ass gang bangers with 9's.

It's serious business now to have rebellious fun.

All in good fun... we love being bad cause it sure feels good.

I agree,the criminal justice system has become a business and it seems as though the tolerance level has dropped,here they arrested a 10 year old kid because he did not stop at a stop sign on his bike,10 years old and already in the system when all he needed was a good scolding.

In Fl for every person arrested that spends more then 8 hours in jail the state receives over $200 per person,you can bet if there is a reason no matter what or even a perceived reason you will go to jail even if it gets thrown out in court afterwards.

When we were growing up cops,teachers and elders in general you respected if not you got your butt whipped not only in school but when you got home,its just something you did not do, is disrespect.

If we got pulled over and weed was found they made you dump it out and grind it into the dirt and you were on your way,now they will confiscate your car if they find a seed in it.

You have to kinda wonder if this whole broken window theory and suppression through force for those of all colors is a bit off course and the whole "I do not care what happens as long as I feel safe" and its long term effects.

We as a country are so involved in the rights and how governments in other countries treat their population,we forget about what is really going on in ours.

[Vic01]

Good to know. Hopefully, DPD will start to tighten the belt over there as well before the same type of fool incidents start.

The tightening has begun... Last night on NPR I listened to an interview with the guy in charge of DPD's parks unit. He said they've been increasing their presence in Rouge Park for a couple months now. As usual, there was some whining at first... "Cops?! Laws?! Safety?!"... They interviewed several Detroit residents using the park now with their kids that wouldn't have a short time ago, they seemed grateful for the increased DPD activity... but I guess they aren't posting here on Dyes

[Honky Tonk]

What a bunch of fuddy duddies. Gwen talks about stuff that my friends and I have done growing up in the D. We got caught at times and we got away with way more than our fair share when we were young. We had Belle Isle, Foot of Alter, Foot of Connor, Balduck Park and that was just the East side. We used to drag race on Huber Ave between St. Cyril and Mt.Elliot for money. Cruise the main drags and drink and smoke doobies and chase girls. Get in fights, run from the cops and who ever. It was part of growing up.

Spent a few nights in the pokey too because of our antics. But the cops were more like on our side after a few hours and they sure weren't so militant.

Then we grew out of doing that stuff and raised families.

What's different today? This whole idea of zero tolerance and the excessively authoritarian, oppressive justice system. That's just the half of it. Then have to put up with the crazy ass gang bangers with 9's.

It's serious business now to have rebellious fun.

All in good fun... we love being bad cause it sure feels good.

Great post, Dan. When you and your buddies went out to have fun, was everyone packing? How many people did you guys waste @ the neighborhood block party? It's nice that you condone the youngsters having a bit of fun these days. Why did you high-tail it out of here to a "safer" area some place else?

[Dan Wesson]

But did you have guns?

I'm going to have to invoke my Fifth Amendment right on that one sir.

Does that one still work?

[Dan Wesson]

Honky,

I was fortunate enough to be able to make a living with the skills I attained anywhere. Why did I high-tail it out of the D? Number one reason? I didn't want my son to grow up the way I did. Number 2? Because I could pull it off.

I was able to raise my two kids as a parent that was there with them day in day out. I worked out of my home.
Not completely a stay at home Dad but close enough.

Absolutely no regrets.

[corktownyuppie]

The city is finally becoming a less welcome place for Pookie n nem. But let's not get the wrong message...we're not saying that we're trying to get them out of here...it means that in order to stay, they need to change the way the live, act, behave.

Some people welcome these changes, others don't. But since the people who welcome these changes are also the ones paying for everything, this is the way things are going to be.

I agree,the criminal justice system has become a business and it seems as though the tolerance level has dropped,here they arrested a 10 year old kid because he did not stop at a stop sign on his bike,10 years old and already in the system when all he needed was a good scolding.

I agree with the above. I am opposed to criminal justice being a business preying on the poor. And I also agree that the kid didn't need to enter the system, he needed some good parenting.

The problem is that good parenting is few and far between in some of the neighborhoods these days. And while I prefer that the job of parenting not be put on law enforcement agencies, if I had to choose between them vs. no one doing it, I don't have a lot of options.

There are two glimmering hopes:

[[1) The compromise between the DPD-requested curfew [[which I supported) and the volunteer-based chaperone system was a good one. The goal was not to arrest kids, but just to make sure that they were being supervised. There were enough volunteers, and the evening happened for the most part without incident.

How can we scale this so that it isn't just one night and in one place? How many neighborhood recreation centers do we need? We can make a great case to the business community that supporting this kind of adult supervision is a much smaller investment than increasing police presence.

I know a friend who started teaching squash to kids from the city...it's becoming more and more popular and they are now traveling around the country competing. It's the only inner-city squash league in the country. Same with the chess team that is nationally competitive. And same with the boxing gym...getting people adult supervision.

When you make adult-guided recreational activity a lesser-expensive, more effective substitute to policing, the case is very compelling, and companies are very open to supporting them.

[[2) The Greektown shootings. Combining good police work with private cameras and cooperative witnesses meant that these guys weren't at large for more than a few weeks. Obviously it would be better had they not happened at all. But in Detroit, for years it was commonplace for these types of crimes to simply go unsolved forever.

Now why do these people behave this way? There are a lot of complex reasons. But one basic one is because people have been able to get away with it for so long. If we can scale that kind of policing/camera work with a cooperative community, it will take a few years [[3-5?), but people will eventually get the message that you can't behave this way anymore.

If you're successful at doing it for 20-30 years, you've totally reinvented the culture.

There is a roadmap to this, but people will soon learn that they can't just be doing the things that "used to be ok".

[Gpwrangler]

What a bunch of fuddy duddies. Gwen talks about stuff that my friends and I have done growing up in the D. We got caught at times and we got away with way more than our fair share when we were young. We had Belle Isle, Foot of Alter, Foot of Connor, Balduck Park and that was just the East side. We used to drag race on Huber Ave between St. Cyril and Mt.Elliot for money. Cruise the main drags and drink and smoke doobies and chase girls. Get in fights, run from the cops and who ever. It was part of growing up.

Spent a few nights in the pokey too because of our antics. But the cops were more like on our side after a few hours and they sure weren't so militant.

Then we grew out of doing that stuff and raised families.

What's different today? This whole idea of zero tolerance and the excessively authoritarian, oppressive justice system. That's just the half of it. Then have to put up with the crazy ass gang bangers with 9's.

It's serious business now to have rebellious fun.

All in good fun... we love being bad cause it sure feels good.

When I was younger there were a few kids who had the "fun" you describe. The ones who are still alive now have criminal records which limited their employment. Several died in horrific car wrecks and a few more overdosed. Some took others with them while drag racing. Not everyone "grew out of it".

No one blamed society or the cops back then either. Nowadays everything is someone else's fault.

[Dan Wesson]

When I was younger there were a few kids who had the "fun" you describe. The ones who are still alive now have criminal records which limited their employment. Several died in horrific car wrecks and a few more overdosed. Some took others with them while drag racing. Not everyone "grew out of it".

No one blamed society or the cops back then either. Nowadays everything is someone else's fault.

Tis is true Gp very true....

[Oddz313]

Ok so lemme get this straight.

We can't party on Belle Isle anymore, or a local park for that matter because they are supposed to be "family friendly" [[whatever THAT means). Can't go to the riverfront without a thousand cops hanging around harassing people. Can't drag race or park and hang [[like at Chandler park). Can't take your dog to the park with your people without getting it shot. Can't let you or your kids walk down the street with more than 2 friends or it constitutes a gang. Can't smoke weed anywhere in a neighborhood with a nosey neighbor or you might lose all of your valuables to police theft, otherwise known as forfeiture. Can't hang out in any establishment after 2am that has alcohol or you might lose your car to forfeiture. Got rid of the Halloween spot, check. Getting rid of John's Carpet House, check.

So in other words, I can't be a grown person, hanging out with other grown persons, doing grown people shit in places other than my house or my block. So lets force all of the people who like to do anything other than ride their bike with their helmet on, sit at church on sun morn or wait in line at Slow's to congregate in places that are perceived as safe enough to be the last resort. Our block.

And now we want to go after that as well. Tell me, why the fuck did I move to Detroit again?

Not the best crowd for this take on things but I get some of the things your saying. This forum is filled with whites that are from the 50's-70's that fled detroit and want to reminisce on the good old days of the city. They really had the best of it too. They had better opportunities, better schools, less broken families, the police were not out for profit and the system was less punitive,college was affordable but it wasn't completely necessary to attend to make it,the girls they chased around they could plow as many as they want without huge fear of disease, and that is why they really can't relate with the 35 and under crowd so much. Also this New Detroit thing is more of an illusion, violent crime is up this year.

[Dan Wesson]

Not the best crowd for this take on things but I get some of the things your saying. This forum is filled with whites that are from the 50's-70's that fled detroit and want to reminisce on the good old days of the city. They really had the best of it too. They had better opportunities, better schools, less broken families, the police were not out for profit and the system was less punitive,college was affordable but it wasn't completely necessary to attend to make it,the girls they chased around they could plow as many as they want without huge fear of disease, and that is why they really can't relate with the 35 and under crowd so much. Also this New Detroit thing is more of an illusion, violent crime is up this year.

Bingo! Your dead on. I was going to bring this up but I'm glad I waited. You said it much better and your living it.

Don't think for a minute I am not aware.

"They really had the best of it too. They had better opportunities, better schools, less broken families, the police were not out for profit and the system was less punitive,college was affordable but it wasn't completely necessary to attend to make it,the girls they chased around they could plow as many as they want without huge fear of disease,"

[corktownyuppie]

Count me in as part of the 35-and-unders.

The New Detroit thing is not an illusion. It just doesn't apply to everyone's tastes. If you're a 40-year old IT exec working downtown and living in Palmer Woods or Indian Village, New Detroit is amazing. free classical music at Campus Martius on Tuesday nights...free bike rides followed by group yoga with beautiful people on Belle Isle on Thursdays...Friday night at the DIA, free admission with free live music.

All free.

But if you're 20 yrs old with 6th grade literacy, unemployed, coming from a broken home living on the Redford border...looking for drag races, organizing block parties for drug dealers, this "New Detroit" stuff doesn't really affect you much.

Note, by the way, all the 20-yr-old is welcome to enjoy all of "New Detroit". And it's even free. It's just probably not stuff that he's really into all that much.

[313WX]

Not the best crowd for this take on things but I get some of the things your saying. This forum is filled with whites that are from the 50's-70's that fled detroit and want to reminisce on the good old days of the city. They really had the best of it too. They had better opportunities, better schools, less broken families, the police were not out for profit and the system was less punitive,college was affordable but it wasn't completely necessary to attend to make it,the girls they chased around they could plow as many as they want without huge fear of disease, and that is why they really can't relate with the 35 and under crowd so much. Also this New Detroit thing is more of an illusion, violent crime is up this year.

Great post.

This is also the same reason why those who remember 1940s-1970s Detroit and now currently live in the suburbs can't understand why folks 35 and under would want to flee Michigan.

Folks 35 and under quite frankly don't remember there ever being good times in this state, just doom & gloom between the auto industry collapse and Detroit proper's collapse. Folks 35 and under weren't born during Detroit's prime, and folks 35 and under were too young to remember the 1990s economic boom.

Thus, folks 35 and under don't have very pleasant memories of life in Michigan.

[corktownyuppie]

Great post.

This is also the same reason why those who remember 1940s-1970s Detroit and now currently live in the suburbs can't understand why folks 35 and under would want to flee Michigan.

Nowhere was this concept more clearly articulated than when several Bloomfield Hills residents were recently interviewed about their opposition to regional transit. Their response? "We don't need that here...this isn't Chicago or New York".

Clearly they don't realize that all of their children are moving away to Chicago and New York, never to be seen again.

[Oddz313]

Count me in as part of the 35-and-unders.

The New Detroit thing is not an illusion. It just doesn't apply to everyone's tastes. If you're a 40-year old IT exec working downtown and living in Palmer Woods or Indian Village, New Detroit is amazing. free classical music at Campus Martius on Tuesday nights...free bike rides followed by group yoga with beautiful people on Belle Isle on Thursdays...Friday night at the DIA, free admission with free live music.

All free.

But if you're 20 yrs old with 6th grade literacy, unemployed, coming from a broken home living on the Redford border...looking for drag races, organizing block parties for drug dealers, this "New Detroit" stuff doesn't really affect you much.

Note, by the way, all the 20-yr-old is welcome to enjoy all of "New Detroit". And it's even free. It's just probably not stuff that he's really into all that much.

Ahh, The strawberries and wine crowd. I'm more of the have a few beers, listen to the tigers game and maybe do a little fishing on belle isle crowd but I can't afford the open intox ticket and I don't think uber wants to carry my fishing poles. So I will just stay away and New Detroit is not supposed to be exclusive to a certain segment of people. They better take notes from Baltimore while building it.