1984 - persistent surveillance necessary here?

[Gpwrangler]

The problem with the red light cameras is they have to be leased. They cost about $5000 a month per intersection. The cameras require a substantial infrastructure to issue the tickets.

How many tickets do you have to give out to cover the cost of operating the cameras? To cover the cost of the cameras some jurisdiction installing them shortened the yellow light to drive up revenues.


Studies show by actually increasing the length of the yellow accidents in intersection go down. So if you are really trying to improve safety, you can go with the no cost option of lengthening the yellow, or spend $5000 a month per camera generating more tickets.

Lengthening the yellow only works temporarily. People drive like idiots in Detroit because there is ZERO enforcement. Cameras would pay for themselves in a week. Unfortunately that would just create more drivers with warrants because some would get a dozen tickets in one trip.

Put it some cops out there and actually write a few tickets. It works everywhere else.

[ndavies]

Lengthening the yellow always works. It's not temporary, because not one knows how long a yellow is at a specific traffic light. The added time allows late runners time to clear the intersection. It always works.

Well considering Michigan is happily and completely free of any red light cameras. They must not be allowed.

http://www.photoenforced.com/michigan.html

Red light cameras are only ever installed as revenue generators, they are never installed to increase safety.

Chicago is looking to remove many or their traffic cameras.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward...295534061.html


Study on increased crashes at red lights
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...286467701.html

[ndavies]

And one more, California cities removing cameras because they cost too much and don't reduce accidents:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-n...-light-cameras

[Gpwrangler]

Then do nothing. Don't whine when you get hit. No wonder the lawyers love this place. I drive a huge SUV to protect against these idiot drivers. Works great.

[Jimaz]

Chicago Police Are Tracking Cellphone Data of Activists and Black Lives Matter Protesters

They let it slip that they were monitoring her cell phone.

[jayz]

Lengthening the yellow only works temporarily. People drive like idiots in Detroit because there is ZERO enforcement. Cameras would pay for themselves in a week. Unfortunately that would just create more drivers with warrants because some would get a dozen tickets in one trip.

Put it some cops out there and actually write a few tickets. It works everywhere else.

I second this. I've driven with countless people who blow every red light in Detroit...."because its Detroit."

[bailey]

So, what happens when you get dragged into the police station just because you walked by a camera near where a crime was committed? Pretty soon they will have facial recognition installed and they'll start pulling in everyone who was anywhere near the area of a crime. I can see many law abiding people sucked into this quagmire.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/16/tech...&iid=obnetwork

Why would you be pulled into the police station for being in the area of a crime?

[Ray1936]

During the 1980 Republican National Convention [[which nominated Ronald Reagan) in Detroit, the DPD installed perhaps a dozen or 14 cameras in "strategic Locations" around the Convention center. The B&W monitors were in the command post at 1300 Beaubien. I was there. We spent most of the time looking at the swimming pool atop the Pontch.

Sorry, statute of limitations has long passed.

[G-DDT]

Maybe this is one many of you have already seen [[yeah, I'm regarding the source here....), but the "future crimes" indicator is a further elaboration of my earlier post on cameras registering your appearance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raTu2g_1Wzw

[313WX]

Why would you be pulled into the police station for being in the area of a crime?

One possible reason is because you were a witness to the crime.

[archfan]

Why would you be pulled into the police station for being in the area of a crime?

You're one of the usual suspects?

[hybridy]

Duggan: 8 gas stations part of pilot crime-prevention effort to start by January

A pilot initiative intended to curb violence like shootings and carjackings at Detroit’s gas stations and party stores is expected to start by January, Mayor Mike Duggan said today.
During a question-and-answer session following a set of wide-ranging remarks at the Detroit Homecoming event at the Detroit Institute of Arts, Duggan said eight gas stations have agreed to be part of the pilot program that would involve a central camera system, high-resolution cameras and bright lighting that would be able to capture clear images of license plates and criminals.
Those would then be sent directly to patrol cars via Wi-Fi connection.
“Gas stations and party stores, these are points of vulnerability,” Duggan said. “Someone at the Detroit Police Department will be able to rewind the tape and put out a photo"

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ffort-to-start

[Gpwrangler]

Duggan: 8 gas stations part of pilot crime-prevention effort to start by January

A pilot initiative intended to curb violence like shootings and carjackings at Detroit’s gas stations and party stores is expected to start by January, Mayor Mike Duggan said today.
During a question-and-answer session following a set of wide-ranging remarks at the Detroit Homecoming event at the Detroit Institute of Arts, Duggan said eight gas stations have agreed to be part of the pilot program that would involve a central camera system, high-resolution cameras and bright lighting that would be able to capture clear images of license plates and criminals.
Those would then be sent directly to patrol cars via Wi-Fi connection.
“Gas stations and party stores, these are points of vulnerability,” Duggan said. “Someone at the Detroit Police Department will be able to rewind the tape and put out a photo"

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ffort-to-start

Yeah, that will help. More shadowy photos of people with stocking caps pulled over their faces. That's brilliant.

[rex]

We dont need it. You're already on camera everywhere you go and besides... overall crime is down. Look at statistics from the 70s - 90s. I bet if you looked at all the cities that saw spikes in crime this year they are still way less than 20 years ago. The difference between now and then is we hear and read about it as soon as it happens. Back then if you didn't see it on the 6oclock news or hear about it on the drive home you likely wouldnt hear about it until you read the paper assuming you got one..
We pay way closer attention now

[hybridy]

We dont need it. You're already on camera everywhere you go and besides... overall crime is down. Look at statistics from the 70s - 90s. I bet if you looked at all the cities that saw spikes in crime this year they are still way less than 20 years ago. The difference between now and then is we hear and read about it as soon as it happens. Back then if you didn't see it on the 6oclock news or hear about it on the drive home you likely wouldnt hear about it until you read the paper assuming you got one..
We pay way closer attention now

Here's the difference...I work downtown. I don't live in the city. I don't get gas in the city. I don't stop for coffee, or breakfast, or snacks or drinks if I'm passing through....ever. Why shouldn't I though?

[Wesley Mouch]

I have the same concerns as all of the above. But for me, the calculation is a simple as Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. If you're living in a world where people are just shooting each other with no thought of repercussions, it's pretty hard to think about privacy being all that important.

Or, put another way, if you're starving on an island with no food, and all of sudden you find a box of edible twinkies, it's probably pretty stupid to worry about sugar intake and carcinogenic ingredients.

The two shooters in Greektown were caught...and in no small thanks to the cameras that caught the perps.

Either bring on a realistic solution to quintuple the number of cops on patrol. Or bring on the cameras. I'm fine with either.

Cameras are just a tool. They can be used for good, or for bad purposes. Police use can and should be regulated, but this genie ain't going back in the bottle. With every citizen having a high quality camera, game over. Police surely don't have a monopoly here.

[Gannon]

I think it is cute that Duggan still thinks in terms of videotape.

[lpg]

None of those cameras can issue tickets. They are just there to monitor traffic they have no law enforcement ability.

The cameras at intersection are only there to assist in traffic flow and light timing. They cannot issue tickets.

You can see the information from the freeway traffic cameras and speed sensors here:
http://mdotnetpublic.state.mi.us/drive/

I should have been clearer in my earlier post. In Michigan the only cameras that are allowed to issue tickets are Rail road crossing cameras

Interesting on the railroad crossing cameras. A couple of weeks ago I watched a Riverview Fire Rescue pass a car and drive around the lowered gates on Sibley Road. They were just on their way back to the station. No red lights or sirens going. Wonder if government immunity applies here.

[ABetterDetroit]

Cameras are just a tool. They can be used for good, or for bad purposes. Police use can and should be regulated, but this genie ain't going back in the bottle. With every citizen having a high quality camera, game over. Police surely don't have a monopoly here.

This is 100% correct. With the tragic events like the Boston marathon bombing and the London bombings and many other crimes where cameras proved very valuable in identifying suspects, they are not going away. The reality is that there are going to be a whole lot more of them in public places. Eventually they will be everywhere people are and will be equipped with microphones that alert police to gunfire immediately. Not liking it will not stop it from happening.

Technology that increases public safety will be welcomed and appreciated by the majority of law abiding citizens.

[Gpwrangler]

Interesting on the railroad crossing cameras. A couple of weeks ago I watched a Riverview Fire Rescue pass a car and drive around the lowered gates on Sibley Road. They were just on their way back to the station. No red lights or sirens going. Wonder if government immunity applies here.

They will not run the gates even when responding. What you saw was very unusual if the gates were indeed down, unless the responders knew they were malfunctioning. It is not unusual for idiot car drivers, however.

[Wesley Mouch]

None of those cameras can issue tickets. They are just there to monitor traffic they have no law enforcement ability.

The cameras at intersection are only there to assist in traffic flow and light timing. They cannot issue tickets.

You can see the information from the freeway traffic cameras and speed sensors here:
http://mdotnetpublic.state.mi.us/drive/

I should have been clearer in my earlier post. In Michigan the only cameras that are allowed to issue tickets are Rail road crossing cameras

We are lucky to live in a State where we are not subject to evils like camera-enforced traffic lights and drunk-driving checkpoints.

Nobody here should be surprised that I am fine with strong, even law enforcement. I personally don't like broken windows in my 'hood. But I also value our individual liberty. Cameras don't always tell the whole picture, and should only be allowed as a piece of evidence, but not proof of crime. If you doubt this, watch football replays.

[Gpwrangler]

We are lucky to live in a State where we are not subject to evils like camera-enforced traffic lights and drunk-driving checkpoints.

We're not that lucky. There have been almost 700 traffic deaths this year. Hint: it ain't all from texting.