Justice For Millie!

[Honky Tonk]

Per the thread, the dog was running towards the officer. Either the thread premise is incorrect, and even the dog owner is lying, or you're just making up stuff.

Per the Free Press article: started to "gallop" toward one of the officers, she said.

So, I'm going by what the article said, you're interjecting "charging towards an officer? and I'M lying? Pass the pipe over here, will ya?

[ABetterDetroit]

And what if this dog had been aggressively approaching a child playing in the park instead of an armed police officer? I'd much rather be reading this story than another one about an innocent kid being mauled by an unleashed dog that "Never hurt anyone".

Ahh, the "what if " argument. Well it cuts both ways. What if this officer wasn't such a wuss walking in a field with a armed partner and people and their pets playing? Could have been a different outcome also.

"What if" he did have gun? "What if" they were terrorist? "What if" they had a child held hostage in there? Go down that road far enough and the police can do anything they damn well want to. Which of course suits some people just fine as long as it's not happening to them. But when it does then it's a completely different story on how "wrong the police were" and "they had no right"... etc.

[Gpwrangler]

Sigh...next time you need a police officer, call someone else other than 911.

if the dog was on a leash, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The rookie cops don't make $15/hr, maybe flipping burgers isn't such a bad idea, at least the only criticism they would receive would be that the burger isn't done enough.

These guys would piss themselves on the first call. But by all means they should keep attacking the police.

[erikd]

The old Tiger Stadium site is a de facto Off-leash Dog Park; it has had that status for at least 5 years and is maintained by volunteers.

Who goes into a Dog Park and starts shooting running dogs?

oh, and Millie the Dog is not a pit-bull, a pit-mix or a Rottweiler. She's a spotted cattle-dog.

Again, who shoots a dog at a dog park?

i take my dog to dog-parks almost everyday it would kill me to imagine my pooch getting shot for the crime of running inside a dog-park.

Now, if she was running on the street or in an unfenced park, I could understand how someone might want to protect themselves, it would make me sad and heartbroken, but I would understand. But inside a fenced, de facto, off-leash dog park?

no way.

I agree with this assessment of the situation.

I have never lived in Corktown, yet I am aware that the old Tiger Stadium site functions as a de facto dog park, and has for years. It seems to me that the DPD officers patrolling Corktown should know this as well. Even if the officers were completely unfamiliar with the community, they should still be able to tell the difference between a non-threatening Sunday gathering of people and dogs in a park, versus a threatening situation where an unleashed dog is running the streets and acting in an aggressive and hostile manner.

Even if the officer was genuinely afraid of the dog in this situation, shouldn't there be a non-lethal alternative employed? It seems to me that pepper spray would be a better alternative for dealing with an unleashed dog in a park.

I understand that police have a dangerous job that sometimes requires deadly force, and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases, but this seems to be an example of going to the gun when it isn't called for.

[hhockey]

Apparently some of you have not kept abreast of what a pit bull can do once it attacks a person. There have been cases where people have had to use baseball bats and other means to try to repel the pit bull from the attack. Of course the police officer is suppose to know if the dog intends to attack him when galloping towards him. I guess he should have waited till he was attacked then hope in can get his gun, or some upstanding citizens comes to his aid. Based on some of the comments here regards the police officer it seems you would rather he be dead then the dog, which by the way didn't die.

[EastsideAl]

I'm with Meddle and Gnome here. Having a dog run at you can be potentially frightening to be sure, but dealing with potentially frightening things [[hopefully in a manner that tries to defuse the situation) is part of a cop's job. If you walk into a de facto dog park, one potentially frightening thing you could reasonably expect to happen is to have a dog run towards you [[and, of course, the dog is more likely to be playing/exploring as he/she is to be attacking).

I would think you should be at least minimally prepared for this possibility, and not panic when it happens. Discharging a sidearm towards a living thing is not the first thing any officer should do. It is the last line of defense, not the first.

[Johnnny5]

From the linked article. "Detroit police characterized Millie as an unleashed pit bull who was growling and jumping at the officer who shot the dog." If the above is true, that's far different than just being greeted by a friendly dog while out for a walk.

I've owned several dogs in my life, and have spent a lot of time around sporting dogs that were far less socialized to humans than the average pet. The one difference I noticed between "pet" owners and those that keep hunting/working dogs is that many pet owners are oblivious to the fact that their dogs pose a threat to people or may be physically intimidating others. If the first thing you have to say to someone when they encounter your dog is "Don't worry, he's friendly" then your dog should not be off a leash in public. Friendly or not, there's no way for a stranger to determine the intentions of a large aggressive breed in the seconds it takes for it to approach them.

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm with Meddle and Gnome here. Having a dog run at you can be potentially frightening to be sure, but dealing with potentially frightening things [[hopefully in a manner that tries to defuse the situation) is part of a cop's job. If you walk into a de facto dog park, one potentially frightening thing you could reasonably expect to happen is to have a dog run towards you [[and, of course, the dog is more likely to be playing/exploring as he/she is to be attacking).

I would think you should be at least minimally prepared for this possibility, and not panic when it happens. Discharging a sidearm towards a living thing is not the first thing any officer should do. It is the last line of defense, not the first.

Great idea, Al. And what you say makes sense.

Years ago, I was with a man who had perfect control of his dogs. He would leave them in an open truck bed -- and they'd stay for hours and hours. He's give them permission to roam, and they would. Then with one word they would return to him, sit, and await instruction.

Perhaps this dog was well-trained. Or perhaps this dog was threatening. We just don't really know. So anything we say about what's right or wrong here with the cop or the dog is just speculation.

Cops are expected to deal with unexpected circumstances. Sure. But you do understand that its possible that this dog was charging the cop. And didn't stop, don't you?

What people don't seem to understand about cops is that they're people, too. They are trained. Trained to protect themselves. To protect you. And if threatened, they are expected to react.

This cop reacted. We don't know why. We don't know if it was justified. Maybe so. Maybe not.

I cannot say. And you cannot say.

But what we can say is that unless the owner of the dog had the ability to control their dog, then there's a risk that the dog will be in danger.

I expect DPD will investigate this. And its fair to do so.

In my opinion, its not fair to judge the cop for not acting as you wish she would have. She didn't. She made a judgement call. And she didn't get mauled. That we know.

[ndavies]

Well luckily the dog survived, so when the lawsuit happens they can take said dog an assess how vicious it is.

[Enduro]

I didn't know every cop was supposed to have "dog whisperer" training or memorize the temperament of every pooch in the the 313.

1. The park maybe "defacto" but it is not exacto a dog park. Or a formal park for that matter.
2. Dog was unleashed.
3. Owner didn't have physical or verbal command of their property.
4. Breed is irrelevant.
5. Cops are not trained to get in a wrestling match with a dog, that leaves them vulnerable, their gun exposed and a ton of other safety concerns.
6. Be glad no one was ticketed and consider this a very very sad lesson learned.

Finally, people have gotten way too casual with their dogs. I see non-helper dogs in inappropriate places all the time. People have allergies, people have phobias often from previous bites, others just don't want dog fur all over themselves. Just because you call your dog your child does dismiss you from the basic responsibilities that come with ownership.

[Meddle]

Apparently some of you have not kept abreast of what a pit bull can do ...

Apparently you haven't read that Millie is not a Pit ....

DETROIT [[WXYZ) - Millie, a 6-year-old Cattle Dog mix, has a bit of a following in some local music circles. But when Millie was unleashed at the old Tiger Stadium on Sunday, she was shot by a Detroit Police officer who said Millie charged him and began jumping.

[Meddle]

From the linked article. "Detroit police characterized Millie as an unleashed pit bull who was growling and jumping at the officer ...

And we all know, cops ALWAYS tell the truth, especially when they're accused of wrongdoing.

[Honky Tonk]

I didn't know every cop was supposed to have "dog whisperer" training or memorize the temperament of every pooch in the the 313.

1. The park maybe "defacto" but it is not exacto a dog park. Or a formal park for that matter.
2. Dog was unleashed.
3. Owner didn't have physical or verbal command of their property.
4. Breed is irrelevant.
5. Cops are not trained to get in a wrestling match with a dog, that leaves them vulnerable, their gun exposed and a ton of other safety concerns.
6. Be glad no one was ticketed and consider this a very very sad lesson learned.

Finally, people have gotten way too casual with their dogs. I see non-helper dogs in inappropriate places all the time. People have allergies, people have phobias often from previous bites, others just don't want dog fur all over themselves. Just because you call your dog your child does dismiss you from the basic responsibilities that come with ownership.

Though I agree with a few items in your post, I'd rather pay for a ticket then get my pet shot in the face. Defacto or exacto, it is what it is, as we say in the 'hood.

[Gpwrangler]

Apparently you haven't read that Millie is not a Pit ....

Of course it isn't.

[Wesley Mouch]

Well luckily the dog survived, so when the lawsuit happens they can take said dog an assess how vicious it is.

'How vicious it is" is a very minor factor. What matters is did the owner have control? Did the cop have a reasonable concern for his/her safety?

I accept its possible that the cop was wrong.

Those who think the cop was wrong should accept that its possible that the dog was a threat.

We weren't there. We don't know. But we have a cop who went home that night without need for medical help. And we have a dog who apparently wasn't under control -- because there's no accusation of the cop chasing the dog.

[Dumpling]

If I were Human Resources for the DPD helping to select police officers, I would
put Dog-Q [[a good understanding of dogs and preferably a rapport with them) right
up there with marksmanship, teamwork, etc. etc. as a desirable quality.
Detroit has very many dogs. Most are well behaved, most are tended to by owners,
but guess what, the cops are going to be meeting each one of the rest of them.
I don't know dogs that well, but "cattle dog" implies to me that the dog might have
wanted to herd the police officer as if he/she were a cow.
This happened to a child that lived across from me. He was standing on the street
corner. He was crying in terror as the dog leaped and barked around him - mind you,
not ever biting or nipping him. I walked the child to his home. I went over to the
child and gave him a big hug, and we walked along slowly hug style with the dog
herding us as we went. I don't know what happened to either the child or the dog
afterwards.

[Scottathew]

And we all know, cops ALWAYS tell the truth, especially when they're accused of wrongdoing.

And the same goes for people they interact with too...

[G-DDT]

Wow. Nice thread. From the view of any sociologist whose been paying close attention to the user names posting and the ideologies typically attached, this issue has brought out a clear and defined formation of sides being taken. I won't elaborate [[for once) on what sides of what issues are typically being taken, but for many regular posters, it's obvious.

[Wesley Mouch]

Wow. Nice thread. From the view of any sociologist whose been paying close attention to the user names posting and the ideologies typically attached, this issue has brought out a clear and defined formation of sides being taken. I won't elaborate [[for once) on what sides of what issues are typically being taken, but for many regular posters, it's obvious.

I had exactly the same thought. The incident is simple. Posters side with or against the cop. A Rorschach test.

So can we move down to 'why' do we either see storm clouds or bunny rabbits?

[Gpwrangler]

I had exactly the same thought. The incident is simple. Posters side with or against the cop. A Rorschach test.

So can we move down to 'why' do we either see storm clouds or bunny rabbits?

No, it's just a stupid thread. And that would be a psychiatrist, not a sociologist that would administer the Rorschach test.

Some people see conspiracy and cover up in everything. I don't share the paranoia.

[aj3647]

And we all know, cops ALWAYS tell the truth, especially when they're accused of wrongdoing.

And as we all know, people who interact with the police ALWAYS tell the truth, especially when they are either potentially in the wrong or stand to gain financially...

[Junjie]

I'd be interested in any follow up on this story. I think pushing things back one step is more helpful, but there isn't much information on what happened just prior to the shooting.

That is to say, I don't really disagree that an officer is allowed to shoot a dog running at him/her in the general case, though I'd be hesitant to endorse it as a first response in the presence of other humans. But why did this officer walk out into an enclosed field where multiple people were allowing their dogs to run if he views them as a potentially deadly threat warranting use of a firearm?

Was there something else worthy of investigation here? It says in the article the officers were investigating "multiple parked cars"... but that doesn't clarify why the officer[[s) ended up inside the fence around the stadium site. Are police trying to crack down on people using Tiger Stadium as a dog run? [[Not implying a snarky "...by shooting their dogs!", I just mean to ask whether that was the purpose of the visit.) In that case, maybe verbally indicating that the owners need to pack up from the other side of the fence would be an easy solution. Or did the officer just walk out into the field, oblivious to the situation, and then panic?

[Wesley Mouch]

I'd be interested in any follow up on this story. I think pushing things back one step is more helpful, but there isn't much information on what happened just prior to the shooting.

That is to say, I don't really disagree that an officer is allowed to shoot a dog running at him/her in the general case, though I'd be hesitant to endorse it as a first response in the presence of other humans. But why did this officer walk out into an enclosed field where multiple people were allowing their dogs to run if he views them as a potentially deadly threat warranting use of a firearm?

Was there something else worthy of investigation here? It says in the article the officers were investigating "multiple parked cars"... but that doesn't clarify why the officer[[s) ended up inside the fence around the stadium site. Are police trying to crack down on people using Tiger Stadium as a dog run? [[Not implying a snarky "...by shooting their dogs!", I just mean to ask whether that was the purpose of the visit.) In that case, maybe verbally indicating that the owners need to pack up from the other side of the fence would be an easy solution. Or did the officer just walk out into the field, oblivious to the situation, and then panic?

Most days, we ask that our police officers not just sit in cars, but get out, walk around, investigate, talk to citizens.

I think we want engaged cops.

[Dumpling]

Other police departments have had a policy of shooting dogs encountered during drug
raids [[not saying raids are never needed, I do favor treatment-first approaches but
these are more expensive) but are working to reduce the number of dogs shot:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-regi...t-dog-20151010

In Detroit shooting the dog during the raid is currently still Standard Operating
Procedure based on my limited experience of one instance I heard about this year,
and then this:

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...57453733-story