Things Perking in New Center Area?

[royce]

What's really needed in the area is a grocery store, period. Another "Whole Foods" or some equivalent would be ideal on that parking lot that CCS owns, between Baltimore and Milwaukee. Also, some sit-down restaurants [[Hot Cat, Jolly Pumpkin-types) are needed in those storefronts, not traditional retail. The northwest corner of Grand Boulevard needs something built there. The parking lot is a dead zone. A small apartment building, or an extention of the St. Regis Hotel with, ground floor retail would be ideal as well.

[innercitydoc]

This article illustrates nicely why improved retail is needed in New Center.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...tifamily-sites

[mwilbert]

This article illustrates nicely why improved retail is needed in New Center.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...tifamily-sites

Not really. It explains why there might be some in 5-10 years. There isn't much point in opening stores now for people who might live in some apartments that might exist in a decade. Just putting together the financing could take years.

What the article does illustrate is why people are considering creating those apartments, despite the relative lack of retail in the area. Greater Downtown needs more housing units, and even with its limitations, the M-1 will almost certainly pull residential redevelopment up Woodward some number of blocks past its terminus at Grand Blvd.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I had not really thought about converting one or both to partial residential. If successfully done, it might really give New Center a good boost. On a related topic, has there been any more word on the fate of 59 Seward?

[innercitydoc]

Not really. It explains why there might be some in 5-10 years. There isn't much point in opening stores now for people who might live in some apartments that might exist in a decade. Just putting together the financing could take years.

What the article does illustrate is why people are considering creating those apartments, despite the relative lack of retail in the area. Greater Downtown needs more housing units, and even with its limitations, the M-1 will almost certainly pull residential redevelopment up Woodward some number of blocks past its terminus at Grand Blvd.

It's evident you are not sold on New Center becoming the next area to blossom despite all the evidence being to the contrary and I don't know why. The article doesn't just reference the sale of the Kahn and Fisher but also the development of Milwaukee Junction, St. Regis and more. Add that to the aforementioned entities and you have a reason for improved retail. Your own post even alludes to this.

[mwilbert]

It's evident you are not sold on New Center becoming the next area to blossom despite all the evidence being to the contrary and I don't know why. The article doesn't just reference the sale of the Kahn and Fisher but also the development of Milwaukee Junction, St. Regis and more. Add that to the aforementioned entities and you have a reason for improved retail. Your own post even alludes to this.

No, that isn't at all what I was trying to say. I think New Center is ripe for redevelopment, probably a bit behind Brush Park, but certainly in the same timeframe as Milwaukee Junction.

But that doesn't mean I think it is ready for more upscale retail, and certainly not because of some large redevelopments that will take many years to occur. Why would you open a store because there will be customers in 5 years? You will be out of business before they show up.

[professorscott]

No, that isn't at all what I was trying to say. I think New Center is ripe for redevelopment, probably a bit behind Brush Park, but certainly in the same timeframe as Milwaukee Junction.

But that doesn't mean I think it is ready for more upscale retail, and certainly not because of some large redevelopments that will take many years to occur. Why would you open a store because there will be customers in 5 years? You will be out of business before they show up.

I agree. The timing of these things is of critical importance. You can't open a store hoping for customers to come in a few years from now, because your landlord and Detroit Edison [[and so on) will expect to be paid every month.

In regard to the earlier comment about M1 pulling development even a bit farther north than its own northern terminus, that is one of the things the M1 people are hoping for, and could then push M1 farther to the north. Paul [[Childs, M1 COO) might not agree with the following statement [[just yet), but this is how I see it, and always have: I think M1 is going to push development to its own north and then gradually expand northward to accommodate it, and I also think M1 is going to naturally expand to the east, either along or south of Jefferson, to hit all of the waterfront things that are and have been developing, also gradually. I don't know when, or with whose money, but that's been my belief since before M1 Rail was called M1 Rail.

[innercitydoc]

But that doesn't mean I think it is ready for more upscale retail, and certainly not because of some large redevelopments that will take many years to occur. Why would you open a store because there will be customers in 5 years? You will be out of business before they show up.

Funny, if you read my posts, I've never used the word upscale. I used the word improved. The bar is set pretty low with what is there now. Can Gucci, Louis, etc be supported there? No. Nowhere in the city can support those type of stores. Hell, I think John Varvartos is crazy for opening a store that sells $100 t-shirts in Detroit. But what about something along the lines of Burlington coat factory, TJ Maxx, or a local retailer like Detroit vs. Everybody? I think so. Anything is better than dollar stores, beauty supply, and wig shops.

I also think there should be more food options in that strip. It will be interesting to see what Sue Mosey has in store

[mwilbert]

Funny, if you read my posts, I've never used the word upscale. I used the word improved. The bar is set pretty low with what is there now. Can Gucci, Louis, etc be supported there? No. Nowhere in the city can support those type of stores. Hell, I think John Varvartos is crazy for opening a store that sells $100 t-shirts in Detroit. But what about something along the lines of Burlington coat factory, TJ Maxx, or a local retailer like Detroit vs. Everybody? I think so. Anything is better than dollar stores, beauty supply, and wig shops.

I also think there should be more food options in that strip. It will be interesting to see what Sue Mosey has in store

Please note that I said "more upscale", not "upscale". I think that the highest end retail you could possibly put there currently is stuff similar to what is at Model T Plaza [[which is actually a pretty good selection, but is a level down from a TJMaxx or Burlington Coat Factory), and that would probably be a stretch--those developers did a great job of getting a critical mass of stores together at once. And anything is not better than wig shops and dollar stores if the available customers want wig shops and dollar stores--in my opinion a closed Gucci is not as good as a functioning dollar store. I'm reasonably sure that those lower-end retail uses will eventually get priced out of those locations, just as some of them have downtown, but I don't think that is imminent. I agree that it is possible that Midtown Detroit may be able to put something together there, but far as I know as of now they don't have enough retail spaces under their control to create a shopping cluster.

[innercitydoc]

I think that the highest end retail you could possibly put there currently is stuff similar to what is at Model T Plaza

So New Center should become more like Highland Park than the rest of Midtown? Got it. Welp, better than what's there now.