Sen. Bernie Sanders Enters Presidential Race

[Pam]

Vets for Bernie:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251632281

And some punk rockers:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251631062

[old guy]

Vets for Bernie:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251632281

And some punk rockers:

From the Vets for Bernie site you posted.

No one has had our backs like Bernie. No one. When you look at the candidates for President and Commander-in-Chief, he is the only one who has consistently stood up and said, “If you can’t afford to take care of Veterans, then don’t go to war.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251631062

I hope that people actually start listening to his message. This might be our last chance to save the middle class and to bring more people out of poverty. I'm just not sure that people actually listen to the message unless it's over the top rhetoric.

[Jimaz]

Jindal's our-lies-have-become-too-preposterous-to-be-believed admonition:
DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » The Truth Doesn't Matter to Republican Candidates!

You've got a choice between an honest socialist on the left like Bernie Sanders and lying conservatives on the right.

Hilarious.

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Blast from the Past: Bernie Sanders Vs. Alan Greenspan

Thom Hartmann shares clips from 2003 when the U.S. Representative Bernie Sanders [[I-VT) schooled Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. Enjoy!

Bernie kickin' butt and taking names.

[oladub]

How disappointing. Bernie recognizes some major national problems but when his big moment came to introduce himself on stage, he folded. Whereas Hillary could slip slide past tough questions about her crimes and record as Senator and Secretary of State, the much cleaner Sanders often couldn't wiggle himself out of similar tough questions.

According to Sanders last night, it's ok for Hillary to hide or destroy her emails and although he mentioned there was a problem with how Hillary's policy worked out in Libya and maybe Syria, he let that slide too. He didn't criticize Hillary directly for voting for the Iraq war either even though he had enough sense not to. He instead rolled over and piddled.

Hillary , for her part, was evil incarnate. She said she would go beyond Obama's [[unconstitutional) executive legislative orders on immigration. Her nonsensical reasoning for taking out Khaddafi didn't offer one constitutional reason for doing so either and she took no responsibility for the mess that ensued.

O'Malley was a snake. The only hat tips to constitutional governance came from Webb and Chaffee and maybe a little from Sanders. I hope Sanders gets serious in the next debate if he didn't already destroy his candidacy.

[noise]

How disappointing. Bernie recognizes some major national problems but when his big moment came to introduce himself on stage, he folded. Whereas Hillary could slip slide past tough questions about her crimes and record as Senator and Secretary of State, the much cleaner Sanders often couldn't wiggle himself out of similar tough questions.

According to Sanders last night, it's ok for Hillary to hide or destroy her emails and although he mentioned there was a problem with how Hillary's policy worked out in Libya and maybe Syria, he let that slide too. He didn't criticize Hillary directly for voting for the Iraq war either even though he had enough sense not to. He instead rolled over and piddled.

Hillary , for her part, was evil incarnate. She said she would go beyond Obama's [[unconstitutional) executive legislative orders on immigration. Her nonsensical reasoning for taking out Khaddafi didn't offer one constitutional reason for doing so either and she took no responsibility for the mess that ensued.

O'Malley was a snake. The only hat tips to constitutional governance came from Webb and Chaffee and maybe a little from Sanders. I hope Sanders gets serious in the next debate if he didn't already destroy his candidacy.

Is this what you mean?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borow...ty-and-respect

[Pam]

Bernie has said all along he wasn't going to do negative ads or attack the other candidates.
Good for him by sticking by that even if the debate moderators wanted conflict.

[oladub]

Is this what you mean?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borow...ty-and-respect

No, I meant what I wrote. He could have been all over Hillary for the outcomes of her vote for the Iraq war and her policies in Libya and Syria in the same way Hillary was all over Bernie for voting the way people in Vermont wanted on gun control. He could have said, "Here is what she did. This is what resulted. In contrast this how is how I voted". No name calling need be involved. Hillary didn't call him names regarding gun control. She just said he didn't go far enough and said she would. He could have done the same thing. After all, he voted against the Iraq war.

Once, Bernie was the head Senate sponsor of a bill to audit the Fed. It was a good anti-bankster bill. When that bill passed the House, Bernie allowed it to get watered down to the point of being meaningless in the Senate. When the going gets tough, Bernie sometimes goes soft and tries to get along it seems. I wish it were otherwise.

[oladub]

Bernie has said all along he wasn't going to do negative ads or attack the other candidates.
Good for him by sticking by that even if the debate moderators wanted conflict.

Bernie condoned whatever Hillary did with her emails. If she did something illegal, it might be too much to expect to see her in prison but withdrawing from the campaign would be reasonable. Bernie, though, seems to think that the press shouldn't question fellow Democrats. Bernie acted like he was throwing the game.

[Jimaz]

Is this what you mean?

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borow...ty-and-respect

The mud-wrestling deficiency was inexcusable.

[canuck]

Bernie has said all along he wasn't going to do negative ads or attack the other candidates.
Good for him by sticking by that even if the debate moderators wanted conflict.

I like how Anderson before asking her a question, referred to Hillary as one of the one percenters.

[noise]

No, I meant what I wrote. He could have been all over Hillary for the outcomes of her vote for the Iraq war and her policies in Libya and Syria in the same way Hillary was all over Bernie for voting the way people in Vermont wanted on gun control. He could have said, "Here is what she did. This is what resulted. In contrast this how is how I voted". No name calling need be involved. Hillary didn't call him names regarding gun control. She just said he didn't go far enough and said she would. He could have done the same thing. After all, he voted against the Iraq war.

Once, Bernie was the head Senate sponsor of a bill to audit the Fed. It was a good anti-bankster bill. When that bill passed the House, Bernie allowed it to get watered down to the point of being meaningless in the Senate. When the going gets tough, Bernie sometimes goes soft and tries to get along it seems. I wish it were otherwise.

He could have. He's made it clear from the beginning he wouldn't do what you suggested, however.

From where I sit, he's made the right decision. I'm glad he has not done as you've suggested.

[oladub]

He could have. He's made it clear from the beginning he wouldn't do what you suggested, however.

From where I sit, he's made the right decision. I'm glad he has not done as you've suggested.

No one has criticized Hillary, including myself, for her take downs of Bernie. She stuck to the issues and did not get personal or hostile. She also refused to play defense allowing herself to be cornered like Bernie did on gun control. Bernie could have done the same. The BBC has written an article about Hillary's debate victory questioning whether Hillary did so well that Biden may have lost his opportunity to enter the race. From that article: "John Podhoretz writes in the New York Post that Mrs Clinton "may have just put the primary away" thanks to a solid debate performance and the decision by her opponents, including populist challenger Bernie Sanders, to pull their rhetorical punches when addressing the former secretary of state." Let the kowtowing begin.

Whereas I previously wrote that Bernie seemed like he was throwing the game, I'm now even wondering if his sponsorship and consequent destruction of the Federal Reserve audit bill wasn't an example of the same. Is it possible that Bernie's role was always to put Hillary in a good light so she shows up at the convention as a winner who has earned her victory instead instead of just someone being coronated? More likely, Bernie just isn't a good debater.

[noise]

No one has criticized Hillary, including myself, for her take downs of Bernie. She stuck to the issues and did not get personal or hostile. She also refused to play defense allowing herself to be cornered like Bernie did on gun control. Bernie could have done the same. The BBC has written an article about Hillary's debate victory questioning whether Hillary did so well that Biden may have lost his opportunity to enter the race. From that article: "John Podhoretz writes in the New York Post that Mrs Clinton "may have just put the primary away" thanks to a solid debate performance and the decision by her opponents, including populist challenger Bernie Sanders, to pull their rhetorical punches when addressing the former secretary of state." Let the kowtowing begin.

Whereas I previously wrote that Bernie seemed like he was throwing the game, I'm now even wondering if his sponsorship and consequent destruction of the Federal Reserve audit bill wasn't an example of the same. Is it possible that Bernie's role was always to put Hillary in a good light so she shows up at the convention as a winner who has earned her victory instead instead of just someone being coronated? More likely, Bernie just isn't a good debater.

Have you seen the reports indicating the disparity between the media pundits' reports on who won the debate versus polls, social media discussion, fundraising, etc.? It's interesting, at the very least.

I think Sanders stuck to his strategy. I'm a fan of the strategy, myself, but not because I think it's a winner. It's clear voters prefer scare tactics, fear mongering, mud slinging, and attacks versus actual discussion about the issues.

That said, my candidate of choice wasn't even in the debates.

[noise]

I should say, my view is based on the fact that I don't need Sanders to challenge Clinton. I'm well aware of those issues concerning Clinton.

[oladub]

Have you seen the reports indicating the disparity between the media pundits' reports on who won the debate versus polls, social media discussion, fundraising, etc.? It's interesting, at the very least.

I think Sanders stuck to his strategy. I'm a fan of the strategy, myself, but not because I think it's a winner. It's clear voters prefer scare tactics, fear mongering, mud slinging, and attacks versus actual discussion about the issues.

That said, my candidate of choice wasn't even in the debates.

Yes, I have seen "the reports indicating the disparity between the media pundits' reports on who won the debate versus polls, social media discussion, fundraising, etc.?" It is interesting. It will also be interesting to see how this plays out in the post debate polls. Maybe the pundits are wrong but they could also be changing the dynamics of the race. I've also seen the power of the press taking out non-establishment candidates Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich in prior races. Sanders is probably getting the same treatment.

[Jimaz]

Attachment 28403
Real Time with Bill Maher: Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders [[I-VT) - October 16, 2015 [[HBO)

Bill Maher and Sen. Bernie Sanders [[I-VT) discuss his Presidential campaign and what "socialism" really means.

[rb336]

Yes, I have seen "the reports indicating the disparity between the media pundits' reports on who won the debate versus polls, social media discussion, fundraising, etc.?" It is interesting. It will also be interesting to see how this plays out in the post debate polls. Maybe the pundits are wrong but they could also be changing the dynamics of the race. I've also seen the power of the press taking out non-establishment candidates Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich in prior races. Sanders is probably getting the same treatment.

considering that the source of virtually all "Hillary won" BS is owned by one of Hillary's biggest backers [[TimeWarner)...

[oladub]

Thought you were supporting a peace candidate? Ok, well Bernie isn't as bad as Hillary or McCain, but in his own words...

“I support President Obama’s efforts to combat ISIS in Syria while at the same time supporting those in that country trying to remove the brutal dictatorship of Bashar Assad.” -Bernie Sanders
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/07/sand-o07.html

Obama just dumped $50M of weapons on top of "moderate rebels" or somebody to fight Assad and Russians who are fighting IS. As one of the comments about this article noted, "That doesn't even make any sense. Fighting Assad while at the same time fighting his enemy [[ISIS) is simply a confusing and nonsensical policy which on its face makes a "complex and dangerous situation even worse". Not to mention the facts that ISIS is our own creation, we don't appear to really be trying to get rid of them, we have no right to decide who runs the government in a sovereign nation thousands of miles away, we have no legal backing under international or domestic law for being in Syria at all..."

[oladub]

In the first poll I've seen since the Democratic debate, "PPP's new New Hampshire Democratic poll finds that Hillary Clinton'smoved back into the lead in the state. She gets 41% to 33% for Bernie Sanders with JoeBiden at only 11%, Martin O'Malley at 4%, and Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb each at2%. Since PPP last polled New Hampshire in August Clinton's gone up 6 points from herthen 35% standing, while Sanders has dropped 9 points from his then 42% standing."
- http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NH_102015.pdf

It gets worse for Sanders. The same poll claims that a Biden entry into the race would take more votes from Sanders than from Hillary.

SNL's take on the democratic debate

How Bernie will Pay for Everything

[oladub]

"Since the first debate, Clinton, also without naming Sanders, has pushed back on his assertion there that “all the shouting in the world” would not fix the country’s problem with gun violence.
“I’ve been told to stop shouting about guns,” Clinton said at a rally in Virginia on Friday, a line she repeated Saturday during her remarks at the J-J dinner. “Actually I haven’t been shouting, but sometimes when a woman talks, some people think it’s shouting.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/1...#ixzz3po9ULLTl

[Jimaz]

Total duration 26 minutes:

Attachment 28515
Bernie Sanders Full Speech at Iowa Democratic Party Jefferson-Jackson Dinner

• Sanders.Senate.gov
• BernieSanders.com
• MoveToAmend

[Jimaz]

An indictment of CNN, MSNBC, etc. for their betrayal of their viewers:

Attachment 28538
Media Edits Out Key Bernie Sanders Rant

The middle class, Anderson, and let me say something about the media as well. I go around the country, talk to a whole lot of people. The middle class of this country is collapsing. We have 27 million people living in poverty. We have massive wealth and income inequality. Our trade policies have cost us millions of decent jobs. The American people want to know whether we're going to have a democracy or an oligarchy as a result of Citizens United.

↑ What they deliberately selected for us not to hear.

The inconvenient truth is often found buried deeply on the cutting room floor.

• Cable News Edits Out Rousing Sanders Attack on Vapid Media Coverage
• Sanders.Senate.gov
• BernieSanders.com
• The Young Turks

[Jimaz]

Attachment 28555
Bernie Sanders on Hillary Clinton [[Oct. 26, 2015) | Charlie Rose

Vermont Senator and 2016 Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders talks to Charlie Rose about the differences between him and Hillary Clinton as they vie for the Democratic nomination. "Who is going to take on the corporate interests and Wall Street and try to create a government that works for all the people in this country rather than a small number of billionaires? That’s the issue. And if people think Hillary Clinton is that candidate, go for it." The full interview airs Oct. 26, 2015 on PBS.

• Sanders.Senate.gov
• BernieSanders.com
• CharlieRose.com

[oladub]

Not content to repeatedly paint Bernie as sexist, Hillary has now inferred that Bernie is racist. At the debate, Bernie had tried to explain that his voting record on guns in Vermont had to do with Vermont being a rural state.

“There are some who say that this [gun violence] is an urban problem. Sometimes what they mean by that is: It’s a black problem. But it’s not. It’s not black, it’s not urban. It’s a deep, profound challenge to who we are.” - Hillary Clinton

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._reaching.html

edited to add-

BERNIE FIGHTS BACK [[finally) Maybe he's had enough.

“People should be suspect of candidates who receive large sums of money from Wall Street and then go out and say, ‘Trust me, I’m going to really regulate Wall Street,’ ” Mr. Sanders said.
On the issue of Mrs. Clinton’s emails, Mr. Sanders didn’t say he regretted his debate remarks. “You get 12 seconds to say these things,” he said of the debate setting. “There’s an investigation going on right now. I did not say, ‘End the investigation.’ That’s silly.…Let the investigation proceed unimpeded.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-s...iew-1446684586