What's a living wage in Detroit? What are obstacles to employment?

[aoife]

Hi, I've never been to Detroit, so I don't know much about the cost of living there. But I'm curious to find out from people who live there how much a single parent of, say, two young children needs to earn in order to live modestly but independently? $10/hour? $20/hour?

It will depend on how old your children are, where you decide to live, and whether or not you have outside support for them [[like child support). I live in an area that has extremely limited childcare facilitites for infants so we send our littlest to an in-home daycare center. It runs us a little over $1000 a month. In the summertime when her school age sister needs care we add another $700 a month. When you add the cost of gas and parking into it, I pretty much work for the privilidge of going to work during the summer months. I know there are places in the city that are cheaper, but you have to find one that you are comfortable with. If your kids just need latchkey, most schools run it for about $20-25 a day [[for before and after care). I am sure there are programs available to help low-income families, but you may not qualify if you are making $20 an hour.

[Zacha341]

I can sign on re. never buying a new car. Unless you can pay off in three years, the five+ year financing is a racket, coupled with sky-high insurance. A used car not need be a wreck. Just purchase cars that you see running, that are strong runners. I don't do cable either. I use internet TV which is now getting popular as many are fatigued with sky high cable bills!

Cut cable. Cut your home phone line. Go to a cheap cellular plan like Republic Wireless. Never buy a new car or lease a car; always buy used. Don't go to the movie theater, borrow movies for free from the library. Don't eat out.

I do all those things, I live a happy fulfilled life, and I'm saving money hand over fist for retirement.

[Gpwrangler]

Get eyes in the back of your head, and develop a good knack for getting a lot of walking in [[believe it or not, Detroit is quite spacious, so any criminal on foot-by car, is a different matter-you may see coming a mile away. Don't be surprised if folks come off reserved and distant). Never rent furniture. Save those deposit bottles! Watch what you sign [[or sign-up) for-thus, read up a lot on tenant's rights, worker's [[especially if in a union and have medical benefits) rights, and legal rights. If driving, develop a good knack for being constant, assertive, attentive, and able to maneuver adeptly [[especially around potholes) around town.

If you're "Freegan", come to Dearborn [[with large car) on July 25th to see what folks "kick to the curb". Better still, check out Ann Arbor when classes get out really soon. College towns toss out lots of furniture, office furniture [[and supplies), computers, refrigerators [[even if they're the small ones), clean, pressed clothes with the tags still on them, backpacks, etc. Just have the room in a vehicle to store [[U-Haul?) it all, and know where to skulk about freely and where not to, when checking out where the kids dump everything.

Trash pick in grosse pointe too. I've gotten running lawn mowers, full of gas, and other great stuff.

[Wesley Mouch]

What's a 'living wage'?

Its a political term for an hourly wage high enough to discourage employers from hiring youth or anyone who might want to improve themselves in favor of others.

If you're asking about what you might need to support your particular lifestyle, you'd need to tell us more about your standards, and what you are looking for. Some can survive on very little. Others more.

Many families at the bottom of the economic ladder choose to have two wage earners. So what's their 'living wage'? Half of what's needed for a single person? Or if the standard for 'living wage' is set to the needs of a family, then is a single person's 'living wage' less?

Living Wage is an economic fiction created by people who think they know more than we do, usually to serve their political gains.

[Jimaz]

From the front page of today's Free Press: Duggan: Low-cost auto insurance on the way for Detroit

... More than a year after Duggan first proposed creating low-cost car insurance for Detroiters, he suddenly announced before an audience of nearly 800 at Cobo Center that he'd "roll it out next week."

Duggan spoke at today's Leadership Luncheon, the 16th-annual gathering of business and community leaders who support revitalizing 8 Mile Road. Amid a wide-ranging discussion of regional issues, which veered into citing the high cost of vehicle insurance statewide, Duggan cited his plan but gave no details....

Stay tuned.

[frostbyter]

Hi again everybody. Thanks for the responses!

A little about me - I grew up in NYC [[Brooklyn and Manhattan). Then, one day, over 20 years ago, I got a wild hair up my butt and moved to Alaska. I live in Fairbanks. The winters are long and cold here. I've become an avid gardener, and just want to move back down to the lower 48 so I can garden with a longer growing season. Anywhere south of the Canadian border will suit my "growing season" needs just fine.

So why Detroit? Detroit is a dark horse. I'm a dark horse. So I figure me and this town already have a lot in common.

I want to move to Detroit by the end of this summer. I'm a licensed civil engineer, and won't give up my good job, and won't leave Fairbanks, until I have a good job lined up there.

I'm single, half black, half white, female, with no human children but two furry [[k9) ones. I asked the question about what a living wage is in Detroit because I have a number of ideas about creating jobs for Detroit's chronically unemployed. I would like to build a sustainable business model, and the critical question that needs to be answered in order to have a sustainable business model is, what is a living wage, what is that dollar amount, in Detroit.

My job creation ideas center around developing cottage industries that would 1) eliminate many of the barriers to employment, and 2) meet the needs of the community.

Because lack of access to reliable transportation is such a huge factor for the unemployed, it's important to create businesses right in the same neighborhoods where many who are unemployed live. So that their commute to work involves nothing more than a 10 minute walk.

Because illiteracy and poor education are also huge problems, I would like to see the development of businesses that capitalize on people's life skills and knowledge, and provide opportunities for them to build on both. I would work with the unions to find out if there are ways to build or expand apprenticeship programs.

One of my ideas is to create a worker-owned bakery of artisan breads to sell to local restaurants. This idea brought me around to asking how many loaves of bread one person would have to bake in one day in order to earn a living wage, in order to be self-supporting. There's a lot I don't know. Would there be enough market demand for such bread? What price would you have to set for each loaf?

Another idea addresses transportation - bike shops that salvage, produce, and repair bikes. A part of this idea is to, initially, give the bikes away, for free, to anyone in the neighborhood who wants one. That would nip bike theft in the bud - you can't steal something that's given to you. And by giving them away, at first, you create demand for their repair, and eventually create demand for more bikes. Bikes for use by neighborhood residents that are salvaged, produced, and repaired by other neighborhood residents. To fund this, especially the initial bike giveaway, I would seek grant money, or go to a crowd funding source. I think it would be possible to turn this into a self-sustaining business once "bike culture" takes root in the community.

Yet another idea is antique restoration, which takes patience, a good eye, and a careful hand. But no, no PhD required, no math skills necessary. And given the internet, and sites like ebay, the market for such antiques is almost unlimited.

A whole bunch of other ideas involve adapting to climate change. I live in Alaska, and I'm here to tell you that the arctic is indeed melting before our very eyes. I could talk for hours and hours about this, but suffice it to say, nature seeks balance in all things. The arctic is warming up, and other regions are becoming cooler. I firmly believe, Detroiters, that your recent polar-vortex winters are here to stay in the foreseeable future, that you will see a general trend of winters getting colder. So, one business I would love to start in Detroit is one that installs residential masonry heaters and subfloor radiant heating systems, both of which work beautifully in cold climates. I think there's going to be increasing demand for ways that people can heat their homes more cheaply and efficiently. If I did start such a business, I would try to include an apprenticeship component to it, in order to provide training opportunities.

******

Back to the question - why Detroit? For me, it's because there's something about your city that fires my imagination and creativity. A flood of ideas come rushing to me when I think of possible solutions to the many problems the city faces. But most importantly, it's the people who choose to live there - Detroit's the kind of place that people either love or hate, and it's the fierce love that people have for this city that draws me most of all.

[Honky Tonk]

From the front page of today's Free Press: Duggan: Low-cost auto insurance on the way for DetroitStay tuned.

From the folks that brought you the water shut-off payment plan.

[sumas]

I am a fierce lover of Detroit. We live on a fixed income and do fine. There is plenty of fallicies regarding Detroit. I try to ignore them but don't always succeed.

I spend most of my money in Detroit and an occasional internet purchase. We are frugal but a new mens store opened and I checked it out. Never spent $30 dollars on a T shirt in my life but couldn't resist this one. Captioned: Detroit -VS- Everybody

[G-DDT]

I can sign on re. never buying a new car. Unless you can pay off in three years, the five+ year financing is a racket, coupled with sky-high insurance. A used car not need be a wreck. Just purchase cars that you see running, that are strong runners.

Beware of dealers if you do go the used car route! Network with friends or cautiously cruise the internet for private car sellers you can talk to well. It helps to have a trusted mechanics [[sympathetic to your financial means) who will take the time to look under the hood [[free of charge) and advise you if this car is a good investment with minimal repairs [[as much as that may mean fewer trips to him). Find a mechanic who knows what's under the hood, because you got lots of dealers hacking the onboard computer so it will register "fine" with the superficial computer diagnostics devices they hook cars up to, but the insides got some flaws. I remember being in N.Y.C. with a friend who took his Pontiac to a Getty's [[is that right?) service station, where they told him his brake discs were "glazed" and would cost a lot. He tracked down a buddy and sponsor from AA, a real outspoken gearhead who checked it out and told him what less costly things actually had to be done [["'Glazed' is what you get on donuts." he said.).

Also, it used to be "Consumer Reports" magazine had better teeth for incisively addressing and tackling issues about consumer awareness and was not afraid to call out certain companies [[something that has changed drastically from the last Bush years that I'm not to happy about-and I have the stack of magazines going back to the 1980's to compare the change)-be it about cars, health, housewares, insurance, gimmicks, etc. Get Consumer Aware! Also, if style doesn't concern you that much, than be pragmatic and avoid the high cost of being affectatious and superficially stylish when it come to shopping for clothes, cars, and other such things.

[canuck]

Beware of dealers if you do go the used car route! Network with friends or cautiously cruise the internet for private car sellers you can talk to well. It helps to have a trusted mechanics [[sympathetic to your financial means) who will take the time to look under the hood [[free of charge) and advise you if this car is a good investment with minimal repairs [[as much as that may mean fewer trips to him). Find a mechanic who knows what's under the hood, because you got lots of dealers hacking the onboard computer so it will register "fine" with the superficial computer diagnostics devices they hook cars up to, but the insides got some flaws. I remember being in N.Y.C. with a friend who took his Pontiac to a Getty's [[is that right?) service station, where they told him his brake discs were "glazed" and would cost a lot. He tracked down a buddy and sponsor from AA, a real outspoken gearhead who checked it out and told him what less costly things actually had to be done [["'Glazed' is what you get on donuts." he said.).

Also, it used to be "Consumer Reports" magazine had better teeth for incisively addressing and tackling issues about consumer awareness and was not afraid to call out certain companies [[something that has changed drastically from the last Bush years that I'm not to happy about-and I have the stack of magazines going back to the 1980's to compare the change)-be it about cars, health, housewares, insurance, gimmicks, etc. Get Consumer Aware! Also, if style doesn't concern you that much, than be pragmatic and avoid the high cost of being affectatious and superficially stylish when it come to shopping for clothes, cars, and other such things.

I can't get away from being stylish, and the timing's just right, I kicked out my old un-hip musicians, hired new ones, started a new band, couldn't find a name for the life of me.

My new band will be called; "Glazed Brakes", thanks to you. JFK

[Gpwrangler]

Beware of dealers if you do go the used car route! Network with friends or cautiously cruise the internet for private car sellers you can talk to well. It helps to have a trusted mechanics [[sympathetic to your financial means) who will take the time to look under the hood [[free of charge) and advise you if this car is a good investment with minimal repairs [[as much as that may mean fewer trips to him). Find a mechanic who knows what's under the hood, because you got lots of dealers hacking the onboard computer so it will register "fine" with the superficial computer diagnostics devices they hook cars up to, but the insides got some flaws. I remember being in N.Y.C. with a friend who took his Pontiac to a Getty's [[is that right?) service station, where they told him his brake discs were "glazed" and would cost a lot. He tracked down a buddy and sponsor from AA, a real outspoken gearhead who checked it out and told him what less costly things actually had to be done [["'Glazed' is what you get on donuts." he said.).

Also, it used to be "Consumer Reports" magazine had better teeth for incisively addressing and tackling issues about consumer awareness and was not afraid to call out certain companies [[something that has changed drastically from the last Bush years that I'm not to happy about-and I have the stack of magazines going back to the 1980's to compare the change)-be it about cars, health, housewares, insurance, gimmicks, etc. Get Consumer Aware! Also, if style doesn't concern you that much, than be pragmatic and avoid the high cost of being affectatious and superficially stylish when it come to shopping for clothes, cars, and other such things.

Pads and shoes can indeed become "glazed" from a sticking caliper, improper adjustment or heavy use. Corrosion on aluminum wheels on the front of a car is a bad sign.

[middetres]

Move out of the Penthouse, sell the Ferrai, sell the Yacht, stop eating out every night, cut back on the weekend partying, quit buying the expensive suits, knock it down a few notches.
$50 grand I plenty...

I don't live in a penthouse, but the 2nd floor of a 3-story walk-up. I agree it's woefully over-priced, but it's near everything and allows me to walk a lot. I don't want to give that up.

I don't own a car at all, nor even a canoe. I don't even have a bus pass. And, no I don't have a $1500 bike. My 15-year old bike was stolen and hasn't been replaced yet.

I don't own any suits...I haven't worn a tie since 1992 [[and that was part of my server uniform). My wardrobe is sadly Old Navy and Target heavy. I've bought one pair of shoes in the last two years.

I have three meals out a week at the most [[two dinner, one breakfast or lunch) and my in-house grocery budget is $40/week. I don't starve, but far from eat out all the time.

And it now takes a week for me to recover from only one night of partying, so few and far between on that.

It seems like money doesn't go nearly as far as it used to. I lived on much less and did a lot more of the above and never felt like I was just getting by...

But I know some people have it much worse than me, so I'm very grateful for what I have.

[Downriviera]

Frostbyter,

We do have people coming here with creative plans but we need more. Love your ideas and hope you can get here.

[Dan Wesson]

Now that you have made clear your interests in Detroit I think you need to revise your scope concerning impediments.

Obstacles to employment? Fine.

But you should be focusing on obstacles to entrepreneurship as well. The list is just as extensive.

[sumas]

There are plenty of grants available to assist with new start ups. I pretty much only know the eastside and downtown. Do a little research.

Sister Pie just opened [[a bakery) wanted to buy some baked goods but they were all sold out.I support local business. I thought so cool. I am glad their business is good'

A new deli opened up the way, can't get in as it is jammed with business. If you want to move here and start a business, hook in with the local non profits, they can help you navigate the rules and regs regarding city rules and grants.

[Dumpling]

Welcome to Detroit whenever you get here! I like that you want to do good deeds
whenever you get here. You might need to be psychologically prepared to be viewed
as a chump some of the time. Another New York transplant runs the Chazzano
Coffee roastery on Nine Mile in Ferndale right around the corner from where my
brother lives, just in case you need a New York home away from home here.
My sister used to be an admissions counselor at a local trade school that advertised
heavily on daytime TV, and while there were enrollees there who were deemed highly
worthy due to their learning ethic and general good citizenship qualities, there were others that the counselors as a group felt, ah, what is the politest way of saying this, that did not benefit from being admitted and having grant money or loans sent their way. The
counselors as a group felt responsible to some extent for the school's performance.

[G-DDT]

It seems like money doesn't go nearly as far as it used to. I lived on much less and did a lot more of the above and never felt like I was just getting by...

But I know some people have it much worse than me, so I'm very grateful for what I have.

Used to be a day I had a spacious room in a well-heated, cockroach-free, large punk rock house [[where noone in the neighborhood would dare mess with us) for $65 a month [[+utilities, of course). My diet was abysmal then [[probably what contributed to the damage and blood sugar condition I have now); I probably wouldn't have gone through that part if I didn't spend my meager wage from the gas station in Southfield on $1.85 packs of smokes and other crud.

It's funny....back then, it was commonly accepted that less was more, and we got by just fine. No status seeking or anything [[which reminds me, Canuck, maybe you should name your first song "No canoes is good canoes" ). If things got tight the first utility to get dropped was always phone. We got by just fine without one, because there was always a roommate, neighbor, or family member who can relate any message if it was just that dang important.

Detroit living is actually way cheaper than New York and Boston living [[plus you don't need to keep feeding a Charlie Card-though our mass transit is also, by far, the worst). Get around more and you will find the places to trust [[been to Buddy's pizza on Conant or Polish Village Cafe in Hamtramck?). With dining, you get really filling hearty food in big portions for real cheap [[with leftovers to boot). Plus, if Eastern Market is still what it was then, a visit there will have you coming back home with two giant crates of strawberries [[or two giant sacks of potatoes) saying to yourself "What was I thinking, what am I going to do with all of...well, I guess I can give a few to this person and that."

[sumas]

Used to be a day I had a spacious room in a well-heated, cockroach-free, large punk rock house [[where noone in the neighborhood would dare mess with us) for $65 a month [[+utilities, of course). My diet was abysmal then [[probably what contributed to the damage and blood sugar condition I have now); I probably wouldn't have gone through that part if I didn't spend my meager wage from the gas station in Southfield on $1.85 packs of smokes and other crud.

It's funny....back then, it was commonly accepted that less was more, and we got by just fine. No status seeking or anything [[which reminds me, Canuck, maybe you should name your first song "No canoes is good canoes" ). If things got tight the first utility to get dropped was always phone. We got by just fine without one, because there was always a roommate, neighbor, or family member who can relate any message if it was just that dang important.

Detroit living is actually way cheaper than New York and Boston living [[plus you don't need to keep feeding a Charlie Card-though our mass transit is also, by far, the worst). Get around more and you will find the places to trust [[been to Buddy's pizza on Conant or Polish Village Cafe in Hamtramck?). With dining, you get really filling hearty food in big portions for real cheap [[with leftovers to boot). Plus, if Eastern Market is still what it was then, a visit there will have you coming back home with two giant crates of strawberries [[or two giant sacks of potatoes) saying to yourself "What was I thinking, what am I going to do with all of...well, I guess I can give a few to this person and that."

Eastern Market is still awesome. Never bought 2 crates of strawberries though. We get one. wash and dry well lightly sugar and freeze in zipper bags. Take them to neighbors.

Detroiters take care of each other.

I feel no shame going to food distribtion centers. They call it now commodity distributions. Mostly we take this stuff to neighbors without cars. Once was given 80# of onions and frankly thought oh Shit! no problems distributing however.

For a clever person, it isn't hard to find rental housing for reasonable.

[G-DDT]

If you get a tad homesick for N.Y., just take a visit to Southfield once in awhile [[Bookbeat and Street Corner music are cool, Bread Basket Deli has great Corned Beef, and the Salvation Army across the way isn't all that bad-all on Greenfield Rd.). It has a New York sophisticate attitude and feel to it [[with plenty of building atriums you are only supposed to "feel so welcome" in, until a guy in a blazer and a walkie talkie tells you to kindly move on. You'll think you just visited Trump plaza-Spy Magazine June 1988 page 95 http://books.google.com books?id=pWWK7nGpMCsC&)printsec=frontcover#v=onepa ge&q&f=false).

[Hypestyles]

Hi, I've never been to Detroit, so I don't know much about the cost of living there. But I'm curious to find out from people who live there how much a single parent of, say, two young children needs to earn in order to live modestly but independently? $10/hour? $20/hour?

Also, what are some of the obstacles to employment confronting a lot of the unemployed in Detroit? This is a huge, complex problem, I know. But one way to solve it is to eliminate the obstacles that prevent people from working. Before you can eliminate the obstacles, you have to first identify them. From what I've been reading regarding Detroit, here are the obstacles that I know of:

Illiteracy
lack of personal transportation
auto insurance too expensive
unreliable public transportation
lack of jobs for unskilled labor

But I'm curious if other obstacles exist? Like, a lot of people are having problems with water shutoffs, so I was wondering if lack of access to bathing and laundry facilities is also a significant obstacle to employment for many in Detroit.

What about access to affordable child care? Is it cheap or super expensive to have your kid in daycare? Are there enough daycare centers around?

Or, what about training opportunities? If people are motivated, are there enough resources available for them to improve their skills? Or get an education?

Please share your insight. Thanks.

generally poor/below-average quality primary schools [[public and charter). Tumultuous home/family lives [[e.g., foster care, deeply impoverished, neglectful/abusive parents, absentee parent[[s), minimally-educated parents/caregivers, marginally employed parents/caregivers, unemployed parents/caregivers, wildly varying in-home traffic [[e.g., boyfriends, girlfriends, buddies, extended family, many of whom may be "unsavory", let alone any outright criminal goings-on), and neighbors who reflect the same issues. State-paid child care subsidy is among the lowest-- if not the lowest-- in the nation. Home-based providers must be registered with the state, but "licensing" only involves larger-scale day care [early childhood learning] facilities. There aren't enough training opportunities, especially for the demographic of high school dropouts, or even HS graduates whose skill sets are marginal. Reading/comprehension and basic math skills figure heavily into this. More labor unions need to openly partner with Detroit's urban schools, for training classes for adults as well as skilled-trade curriculums for young people. The same goes for the tech/computer industry, since "that's where it's at" now. There need to be several [[if not most) middle/high schools with high-tech industry curriculums. Foreign language classes need to be taught at all schools, in early grades. Spanish, Arabic, Chaldean/Neo-Aramaic and Mandarin, for starters.