Hantz Farms Tree Spacing

**Llama** · March-21-15, 04:56 PM

Driving across from Mack to Jefferson on some street or another [[near Cadillac I think) the other day, I noticed what I assumed to be Hantz Farms lots. The trees appeared to be planted perhaps 3 feet apart, in rows perhaps three feet from each other.

Don't trees need more space than that to grow? Is Hantz planning to thin them out at some point-- and if so, why? Anyone close enough to the project to know what's up with it? This photo is from their FB, and someone else asked a similar spacing question in the comments. No response though. http://goo.gl/Xx0hQ3

**Honky Tonk** · March-21-15, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Llama

Driving across from Mack to Jefferson on some street or another [[near Cadillac I think) the other day, I noticed what I assumed to be Hantz Farms lots. The trees appeared to be planted perhaps 3 feet apart, in rows perhaps three feet from each other.

Don't trees need more space than that to grow? Is Hantz planning to thin them out at some point-- and if so, why? Anyone close enough to the project to know what's up with it? This photo is from their FB, and someone else asked a similar spacing question in the comments. No response though. http://goo.gl/Xx0hQ3

I see the Greenies of Detroit doing the same thing and wondered about that too.

**Gannon** · March-21-15, 07:10 PM

Surely they are assuming 50% shrinkage due to midnight tree supply sourcers in the city. I've seen folks helping themselves to a newly-deposited mound of wood chips in the wee hours. This last round of old-growth clearing, they seemed to have made piles of chips for the taking, now. It seems Hantz is having some fun with this.

But yeah, I'd bet they'll separate these at five years...they DID plant some bigger trees near Indian Village that are father apart.

**Dan Wesson** · March-21-15, 08:07 PM

What kind of trees are these.
Tree spacing, up north here you can see acre's of red pine, the tree used for telephone poles, planted so close together by the CCC years ago that the tree are tall toothpicks useful for nothing but chipping.

**ABetterDetroit** · March-21-15, 08:30 PM

I don't know a lot about farming but what I do know after dealing with arborist is that all trees are not necessarily fit for hugging. Some will need to be culled.

**Gannon** · March-21-15, 09:17 PM

And I remember from an old Huey, Dewey, and Louie comic book that apple trees need to be pruned to bring the best fruit. There're only so many resources available to feed 'em all.

I wonder if that is why he culled so much of the old-growth. Many of the trees I saw cut down were obviously diseased...but some of 'em looked pretty healthy.

Never thought I'd miss the old, random destruction and decay of the near-east side...but the wide-open newly-cleared spaces just look dismal. I guess the city has seen this before, I remember reading that the area for the Lafayette Park project lay fallow for a decade or so after it was cleared out. It is like a reverse-Potemkin effect, at least the old houses and businesses exuded the decrepit grace of ages past...allowing the echoes of the lives lived within them a chamber for the wayward to ponder.

I've taken to random, alternate routes on our daily drive through the city now, Charlevoix and Vernor are becoming boring, and occasional speed traps. Had an excursion down Goethe a few times, enjoying the 'new' scenery. Worth the stop signs. There is still some seriously amazing architecture in this city...damn shame so many allowed it to largely rot, and others cannot see past the rot for recovery...or at least reclamation.

**EL Jimbo** · March-23-15, 07:43 AM

If I recall from an article from years back, step 1 for the Hantz Farm was to plant the trees as a way to leech a lot of the lead contamination out of the soil.

Even in old residential areas there is a fair amount of lead contamination in the back part of the property by where the cars would be parked off the alley. Those old cars leaked a lot of leaded fuel and oil. Over time, that lead leeched into the soil.

If Hantz Farms was to ever grow food in anything but raised beds, they would need to address the soil issues. I'm pretty sure the trees were part of that process.

**Mackinaw** · March-23-15, 08:28 AM

Their approach might be sensible because 1) they can transplant/sell/donate the healthy ones to plant elsewhere around the city/area and 2) some may be unhealthy and could be thinned anyway.

**Boy Named Sue** · March-23-15, 12:03 PM

when you grow veneer quality hardwood the goal is to get a piece of lumber that is tall, straight with minimal knotting. This is accomplished by planting the trees very close together so they begin to 'canopy' early in their life. When they canopy, they compete for sunlight and put all their effort into growing tall and straight. They will also self prune their lower branches which minimizes the knotting on the final product. After about 10-15 years, they will thin the planting and only keep the best quality [[tall, straight, no lower branches). At this point the tree can now expand for the next 50 years and down the road you will have a perfect quality veneer lumber to be harvested.

**Honky Tonk** · March-23-15, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Boy Named Sue

when you grow veneer quality hardwood the goal is to get a piece of lumber that is tall, straight with minimal knotting. This is accomplished by planting the trees very close together so they begin to 'canopy' early in their life. When they canopy, they compete for sunlight and put all their effort into growing tall and straight. They will also self prune their lower branches which minimizes the knotting on the final product. After about 10-15 years, they will thin the planting and only keep the best quality [[tall, straight, no lower branches). At this point the tree can now expand for the next 50 years and down the road you will have a perfect quality veneer lumber to be harvested.

Hey, Boy Named Sue, How Do You Do? Thanx for the explanation. I didn't know that. I wondered why you seldom see knots in veneer.

**Boy Named Sue** · March-23-15, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Hey, Boy Named Sue, How Do You Do? Thanx for the explanation. I didn't know that. I wondered why you seldom see knots in veneer.

My family is in the timber business.

**Llama** · March-23-15, 08:58 PM

Thanks, EL Jimbo and Boy Named Sue! Both reasons make a lot of sense.

**jonathanlivingstonseagull** · March-23-15, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Boy Named Sue

when you grow veneer quality hardwood the goal is to get a piece of lumber that is tall, straight with minimal knotting. This is accomplished by planting the trees very close together so they begin to 'canopy' early in their life. When they canopy, they compete for sunlight and put all their effort into growing tall and straight. They will also self prune their lower branches which minimizes the knotting on the final product. After about 10-15 years, they will thin the planting and only keep the best quality [[tall, straight, no lower branches). At this point the tree can now expand for the next 50 years and down the road you will have a perfect quality veneer lumber to be harvested.

The things you learn on DY!