Final call, be blessed but only if black

[Honky Tonk]

Been up to Harbor Town grocery for the 4th time in 5 days. Not my usual stomping grounds but husband needs seafood they have in their deli to gain weight.

Lovely, expensively dressed afro mid aged american male, selling Final Call, a black muslim newspaper for a buck is always there. Always disapears when we show up. We be white apparently, devils encarnate.

So my husband chased him down and wanted to buy a paper, at first he refused, then doubled the price. My husband said, I'll read it on line.

Sad really!

Well now THAT is interesting because he always asks me if I'd like one. Sometimes I buy one, sometimes I shrug him off. I'm pretty sure I give him a buck. I don't shop there much anymore since it changed hands and prices increased. Seafood increases weight? Try canolies instead.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Totally missing it, point is, radicals on any side would like to see racial polarization. Again that divide and concurr mode. Soooo sick.

We are not pawns and sickos will not win. The average citizen of the world wants peace, quality of life and to sustain its own culture. Simple really. Hard to attain.

Sumas
IMHO, Its this quote here where things get a little dicey "sustain its own culture". Having traveled the world for over a quarter century and spent extended time in many countries where tribal affiliations are the overarching fiber that maintains "its own cultural norms" violence and suspicion of non-members/outsiders normally ends up being a part of the equation of sustaining ones culture. Its human nature that cannot be disrupted less one wants to be on the receiving end of said violence. We are very fortunate here in America that for the most part although negative attitudes do exist towards different groups its normally without the violence component.

[rex]

you should feel sorry for him if anything
his perspective is debilitating.

[Jimaz]

Publishing information in a newspaper seems a pretty silly way to keep it secret.

On the other hand, claiming it's a secret is a pretty shrewd way to generate interest.

[RaumVogel]

According to law,you can not refuse to serve someone on basis of their race.

If it is food at a MW food counter,or a newspaper that you are selling on the streets.If you do not provide that item to ALL people, you are breaking the law.
For him to try to avoid the person.Then increase the price of that item.Is an example of prejudice.And against the law of the United States.The reason this person wanted to purchase the newspaper is irrelevant.It is illegal to sell something to the general public,but then refuse to sell it to someone based on you're personal judgment of that individual.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[sumas]

Well now THAT is interesting because he always asks me if I'd like one. Sometimes I buy one, sometimes I shrug him off. I'm pretty sure I give him a buck. I don't shop there much anymore since it changed hands and prices increased. Seafood increases weight? Try canolies instead.

We get those at Milanos Bakery in the market but those are empty calories. Taste great though.

[Honky Tonk]

We get those at Milanos Bakery in the market but those are empty calories. Taste great though.

I love Milano, and buy there frequently. If you're ever in Dearborn, try the ones @ Alcomo's, they're great. Schafer, 2 blocks South of MI Ave. Old Schiool Italian Market. Worth poking around the shelves if you're into cooking. Split a handmade sub with the Hub. Those will put a pound or two on him. Oh, and there's a seafood store next door.

[sumas]

According to law,you can not refuse to serve someone on basis of their race.

If it is food at a MW food counter,or a newspaper that you are selling on the streets.If you do not provide that item to ALL people, you are breaking the law.
For him to try to avoid the person.Then increase the price of that item.Is an example of prejudice.And against the law of the United States.The reason this person wanted to purchase the newspaper is irrelevant.It is illegal to sell something to the general public,but then refuse to sell it to someone based on you're personal judgment of that individual.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Thank you Raum. Perhaps my choice of words are incorrect politically, for that I apologize. Just like to stay informed and it did bother me that written word was trying to be withheld. Religious right wingers seem to be on the up tick for all sects and aspects of religious folk.

I am active in a very liberal Christian church, life long member. Respect all religions that teach harmony.

Again just saddened at all that hate mongering.

[sumas]

I love Milano, and buy there frequently. If you're ever in Dearborn, try the ones @ Alcomo's, they're great. Schafer, 2 blocks South of MI Ave. Old Schiool Italian Market. Worth poking around the shelves if you're into cooking. Split a handmade sub with the Hub. Those will put a pound or two on him. Oh, and there's a seafood store next door.

Probably for the cooking thread but love the garlic paste made by Al-Nour bakery @ 13738 W Warren. Due to massive surgeries, its hard for him to absorb nutrients, but some things a person can't pass up. We will be in that area next week and will give it a try. Thanks

[professorscott]

It is illegal to sell something to the general public,but then refuse to sell it to someone based on you're personal judgment of that individual.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

What you say is true in many but not all instances. For example: say I own a bar, you walk in and I perceive you to be intoxicated, whether or not you are. It is not only my right but my legal obligation to refuse to serve you alcohol. There are a lot of specific instances where you can refuse to serve someone on nearly any basis. Someone with more of a legal background can probably provide a great many examples.

As for The Final Call itself, your kindly old professor is white, and nobody from NOI has ever refused me a copy. I have picked it up, from time to time, over the years. I find it a very interesting read; it is interesting to see how society appears to someone whose perspective is very different from my own. Of course I don't agree with everything in it, and nobody associated with it would expect me to.

One of the phenomena we must deal with, living in a society in which remains a little bit of freedom of speech, is that we are not free to suppress speech that we don't like, although there are those that try like hell to do it.

[sumas]

[QUOTE=aj3647;474097]Except you said that he offered to sell it to your husband for $2 and your husband flippantly declined after chasing him down. I don't think you were chasing knowledge but rather a confrontation.

My husband wasn't remotely flippant, just refused to participate in an apparent racial taunt. Seeking knowledge has never been a sin in my book. Confrontation is almost a hilarious comment. Racial/religious slights are not in my perview, maybe yours, couldn't comment, don't know you.

[iheartthed]

Yes of course, but he wasn't equally proselytizing to white folks, that is the main issue. The Muslim religion has its faults, like varying degrees of rules of submission for women, but it preaches universally to all people.

I'll respectfully disagree with you here. First of all, Islam is not monolithic and there are plenty of different interpretations of it, just as there are numerous different interpretations of Christianity, Judaism or any other religion with a mass following. But all of those religions mentioned heretofore do have in common the tenet that non-believers of said religion are in some way inferior. The degree to which they adhere to that principal is what differentiates the extremists from non-extremists.

a quaint reminder of the forces that put black folk apart from the mainstream for so long.

Of all the things that have kept black Americans from assimilating into the mainstream culture for most of America's nearly 250 year existence, I feel secure in saying that the NOI was a non-factor.

[Dan Wesson]

Of all the things that have kept black Americans from assimilating into the mainstream culture for most of America's nearly 250 year existence, I feel secure in saying that the NOI was a non-factor.

Agreed......

[Honky Tonk]

One thing's for sure, as impeccably as that guy's dressed in fine linen, and as nice of a new car as he has, I have a good mind to start selling that paper too.

[canuck]

I'll respectfully disagree with you here. First of all, Islam is not monolithic and there are plenty of different interpretations of it, just as there are numerous different interpretations of Christianity, Judaism or any other religion with a mass following. But all of those religions mentioned heretofore do have in common the tenet that non-believers of said religion are in some way inferior. The degree to which they adhere to that principal is what differentiates the extremists from non-extremists.

I agree with you on that too. I am making a distinction though between NOI which preaches to a black audience exclusively and Islam which is generally proselytizing to a universal audience. There is a very vast audience in the Muslim world, and we tend to focus on the Middle East and the Gulf states because they are closer to us among other reasons. If you look at Indonesia, one of the biggest countries on earth, and the 4th most populous; it is overwhelmingly muslim, and in Southeast Asia. The next biggest Islamic country is Pakistan; also in Asia. There are the countries of Eastern Europe that also have important muslim populations. NOI was a fabrication create from pretty desperate circumstances and unfortunately became a sort of mafia. There are many weird outgrowths of large organized religions that populate mankind's need for truths throughout history.

Ultra-orthodox jewry came about after so many attempts at assimilation or destruction from pogroms in Easter Europe and the Russian Empire. If you look at the reflex of closing in on oneself for protection, religion affords a place for sub-groups like that to congregate and justify self-ostracism.

Of all the things that have kept black Americans from assimilating into the mainstream culture for most of America's nearly 250 year existence, I feel secure in saying that the NOI was a non-factor.

I agree with you there too. I was pointing out that NOI came about as a result of ostracism from the mainstream. The black separatist movement includes a great variety of expressions that negate the need of dealing with the mainstream. The other form of separatism is the ghetto culture that pushes violence in order to control through terror.

[Jimaz]

... Due to massive surgeries, its hard for him to absorb nutrients,....

Have you tried the high-calorie variant of Ensure? Several doctors have recommended it for weight gain but it's only to be given after meals. It shouldn't replace normal meals.

[Danny]

Bu the way the Black Nation of Islam started in Detroit on the corner of Linwood St. near Joy Rd and Clairemount St. by Elijah Mohammed.

Also during his childhood Elijah Mohammed grew up in Yemans St. between Conant Ave. and Jos. Campeau St. in Hamtramck in the early 1920s.

[Wesley Mouch]

Wise words indeed.

There is now a growing debate in Canada about women wearing the Niqab or burka in public, and in particular in court or when serving the public. In Quebec, there was a bill proposed to outlaw any outward sign of religious membership to a given group when serving in public service, such as teaching or other government appointed jobs. The last elections took care of the PQ government that introduced this during their campaign, and they were ousted.

While I am totally immune to the muslim veil on women, I am not so partial to the idea of freedom in the Niqab or Burka controversy in Canada. Harper has said we should disallow those garments in court or at swearing in ceremonies like citizenship, etc... I am not a fan of limiting religious expression but I also hate the symbol of oppression the fullface concealment expresses, even in the context of individual freedom.

I am not sure where to go on this, but I don't like telling folks to stop having tattoos because I don't like them anymore than telling a woman she can't wear the Niqab or Burka. I am however freaked by the appearance of women in totally concealing long black garbs including gloves, on the street. It is frankly insulting to generations of women who fought for equality and are still short of equal pay and other things.

A few years ago Judge Paruk [[?) in Hamtramck ruled that everyone must display their face in court, as facial expressions is a core part of our court systems review of facts presented in court. Does that still stand? What's the case in the rest of the US?

I think we can respect other cultures without the other culture disrespecting our culture. If woman cover their faces voluntariily everywhere but in court while testifying, I'm OK with that. Not sure how we know if its voluntary, though.

[Dan Wesson]

A few years ago Judge Paruk [[?) in Hamtramck ruled that everyone must display their face in court, as facial expressions is a core part of our court systems review of facts presented in court. Does that still stand? What's the case in the rest of the US?

I think we can respect other cultures without the other culture disrespecting our culture. If woman cover their faces voluntariily everywhere but in court while testifying, I'm OK with that. Not sure how we know if its voluntary, though.

Burkas' and Niqabs' have been used as a disguise by men doing dastardly deeds for centuries.

I was in a very popular Firearms Store in Davison Mi. and standing in the long line buying a Pistol was Someone? covered head to toe with only their eyes visible. That was truly different. Couldn't tell you what the gender was. Who ever it was was not escorted either. Everybody else looked like them crazed back woods gun nuts.

[noise]

There are so many people in the world today that hate Americans because of our freedom.

Comedy gold. Gracias.

[Hypestyles]

side note: A former NOI member writes a heavily autobiographical book about his experiences and dealing with his dormant sexuality: http://brotherhassans.blogspot.com/2...out-black.html excerpted from blog post:

Later that night in the spring of 1993, I would learn, Aaron would hang himself in his dorm room in college. The young man I looked up to , that would always be good for a shot of emotional energy and positive spirit when I was feeling down, was struggling with a reality that he felt that he could never share with me. I felt a mixture of hurt, anger, confusion, and shock. A myriad of emotions swirled through my mind. This cannot be suicide, I thought. Someone must have taken his life, for some bizarre, stupefying, crazy and sick reason. It had to be murder. No way my homie would take his life like that.

When I received the phone call from another friend of ours in Chicago to tell me the news, I couldn’t sleep that night. Or the next night. For several nights after this tragedy, I would wander aimlessly around Tuskegee’s campus at night and sit near the famous statue of founder Booker T. Washington lifting the "Veil of Ignorance", wondering what I would do now that he was gone. I was furious on some selfish level that he would take his own life, when he knew that I needed him.

His energy and infectious laugh, coupled with his strict discipline and tireless dedication to study, helped me grow as a young man in that last year of his life by leaps and bounds. Just when I started learning how to stand up for myself, speak out for myself, thanks to him, he was now suddenly gone.

It’s very possible, from what I would later hear, that I was one of the last, if not the last person he spoke to before killing himself.


I had no clue, however, about the quiet “scandal” that was going on in Chicago at Nation Of Islam headquarters while I was at Tuskegee. Apparently, from what I was later told by several sources in the Mosque at the time, Aaron and “several other brothers” in the squad we belonged to, called the Task Force, [[we were called the “Task-Force“, because we were a squad of young men ages 16-25 being groomed to become the next leaders of the Nation of Islam. We considered ourselves to be the “elite”, the rising young guns, those next in line for potential leadership within the ranks of the nation Of Islam.)were having sexual relations with each other .

I was told by several sources that the highest ranking member of the squad, whom we shall call “Ali” had been allegedly caught by his own wife having sexual relations with ANOTHER brother in the same squad , “Marcus 12 X” . [[ In the Nation, when members were first entering the Nation they were given the last name “X”, to symbolize the unknown ancestral disconnect that slavery brought upon the Black community.).


While this fire-storm of controversy was swirling within the ranks of the Nation Of Islam behind the scenes, I was clueless as to any of the events that were transpiring. How ironic, that I was so scared to tell my own squad members that I think I might be gay, and then find out that SEVERAL of them were already gay and I never knew! Go figure, I thought. Why couldn’t Aaron feel free to tell me what was going on with him? What was he afraid of?

[sumas]

Hype style, sorry your post freaked me a bit, our eldest child is Aaron and going through a bad break up. He is very depressed and even worried he might be suicidal. Talked later and seemed ok. He seems to have boxed himself into a corner. Moms worry!

[Hypestyles]

Hype style, sorry your post freaked me a bit, our eldest child is Aaron and going through a bad break up. He is very depressed and even worried he might be suicidal. Talked later and seemed ok. He seems to have boxed himself into a corner. Moms worry!

Understood. Hope things get better for him soon

[sumas]

Understood. Hope things get better for him soon

Thank you. All kindnesses considered and appreciated. They seem to have reconciled. Always find it strange that my kids [[grown) have relationship problems. We have been married 40 yrs, , 42 together and knew each other 44. Maybe we screwed up somewhere but not clear how. Only want the best for our kids.

Is it ok, if I call my eldest a dolt? If the relationship still seems dicey, why is he considering buying a home with her DuHHHHH!

Should say we never interfer in their lives. Maybe we should.

[sumas]

Sorry so off thread.