Diamonds in the Rough - Boston-Edison House Bargains

[Richard]

But $500k in the burbs doesn't buy true old world craftsmanship or historical significance. More often than not it buys a mcmansion. In sprawl. Sometimes it's not always all about money.

This.

We pay to become the currant caretaker.

[p69rrh51]

Boston Edison neighborhood, a alley that's kept up and 3000 sq. ft. directly across the street from a park. All investments have risk but this one has tons of upside potential.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...33-20733?row=1

Designed by Charles E. Shippey for Elias H. Sellers. An image of the house from a 1915 issue of Ohio Architect, Engineer and Builder journal.

[p69rrh51]

This is massive

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...96-84625?row=1

Designed by Frederick J. Winter for Byron F. "Barney" Everitt. Everitt was a principal in the E-M-F and Rickenbacker Motor Car Companies. Images from a 1919 Detroit Free Press article and an image from Patrick circa 1920.

[detroitbob]

The wall paneling and wood trim work in the old Savoyard Club, atop the Buhl Bldg. [[floors 27-28) is American Chestnut, some of it repurposed there as antique paneling in 1927, some of it new to that era. During some very careful remodeling in the early 1980's a section of missing paneling was replaces by distressing oak on one of the east corners of the river side. The stain and finish was expertly matched and blended in perfectly with the original.

[aj3647]

But $500k in the burbs doesn't buy true old world craftsmanship or historical significance. More often than not it buys a mcmansion. In sprawl. Sometimes it's not always all about money.

Just because something is old doesn't mean it has historical significance.

[sumas]

Judging by the pictures and it's location the house is almost certainly larger than 3000 square feet. The two main floors are probably ~3500. Basement and attic will double that and even if they aren't being used as living space they still suck up heat and maintenance dollars.

Speaking from experience, dusting a house this size can be unmanageable.

Truer words were never spoken. An old home [[112) the dust is nuts. I feel sometimes like all I do is clean and mop. I have a couple that comes in once sometimes twice a month to help and still can't keep on top of things. Love my old home but it is truly a labor of love. Emphasis on labor!

[Bham1982]

Where are you going to find a home with the similar features at that price in the metro area[[old and new)?

B-E is a very niche market. It will never, at least not in our lifetimes, be a high cost neighborhood. It's for lovers of period architecture, and that's basically it. Granted, very beautiful homes, and interesting history. But not remotely urban [[lots are smaller and walkability is more practical in even Novi), not a good investment, horrible crime issues, and zero services.

[Bham1982]

No heat bill

Attachment 25900

This is another thing people always ignore in the "Michigan has such cheap real estate" meme. Heating costs for a typical suburban home are over $200 a month. Some drafty, big old place in Boston Edison is probably costing you close to $1,000 a month. Move to [[admittedly expensive) coastal CA and you will never have a heating [[or air conditioning) bill, ever.

Though that pic looks like Florida, and you'll definitely have an AC bill in Florida.

[bailey]

This is another thing people always ignore in the "Michigan has such cheap real estate" meme. Heating costs for a typical suburban home are over $200 a month. Some drafty, big old place in Boston Edison is probably costing you close to $1,000 a month. Move to [[admittedly expensive) coastal CA and you will never have a heating [[or air conditioning) bill, ever.

..and you'll be living in a 2 million dollar, 1960s 3br 2ba ranch in Palo Alto [[according to the recent tale of woe in the Daily from the UM student from there lamenting how her family is just middle class so don't call her rich). so, again not really a comp to this. No one is looking at that house and thinking about the "costs" in that way. They're thinking can the love of the house overcome living in and dealing with the dysfunction of Detroit.

[Bham1982]

..and you'll be living in a 2 million dollar, 1960s 3br 2ba ranch in Palo Alto [[according to the recent tale of woe in the Daily from the UM student from there lamenting how her family is just middle class so don't call her rich). so, again not really a comp to this. No one is looking at that house and thinking about the "costs" in that way. They're thinking can the love of the house overcome living in and dealing with the dysfunction of Detroit.

Agreed, but Palo Alto is essentially the most overpriced town in the most overheated real estate market anywhere [[Silicon Valley).

There are places along the California coast where you can get something decent for under a million, and I do think the savings from no heat/AC costs would be a factor for some. $300-$400 a month in heating bills for half the year adds up over the years, and would matter to non-rich.

[ABetterDetroit]

Agreed, but Palo Alto is essentially the most overpriced town in the most overheated real estate market anywhere [[Silicon Valley).

There are places along the California coast where you can get something decent for under a million, and I do think the savings from no heat/AC costs would be a factor for some. $300-$400 a month in heating bills for half the year adds up over the years, and would matter to non-rich.

This is the perfect example of how Bham will make any insane argument up out of thin air to be negative on this city, metro and state with every post. Let's take his high number $400 a month x 6 months = $2400 a year. Comparing saving $2400 a year and then paying 2-5 times more for the price of a home and attempting to say it's relative is hilarious. California homes cost 100s of thousands of dollars more that Michigan homes. I really like CA. and go often for business and pleasure and when I'm there I always pick up the free real estate books because the prices are so high compared to Michigan it's just exellant entertainment, laugh out loud funny.

[bailey]

Agreed, but Palo Alto is essentially the most overpriced town in the most overheated real estate market anywhere [[Silicon Valley).

There are places along the California coast where you can get something decent for under a million, and I do think the savings from no heat/AC costs would be a factor for some. $300-$400 a month in heating bills for half the year adds up over the years, and would matter to non-rich.

All well and good... but I'm guessing those looking at the Arden Park house aren't looking to California as a comp anymore than they're looking to sprawly, exurban Novi ... so again, I'm just not getting the point in comparing them.

[Bham1982]

This is the perfect example of how Bham will make any insane argument up out of thin air to be negative on this city, metro and state with every post.

There is nothing "insane" about pointing out that it costs thousands more annually in utilities living in Michigan compared to other states. That's part of housing costs, and needs to be factored in.

I never claimed that Michigan is more expensive than California, that's you basically ranting before reading. Obviously Michigan is relatively cheap, but there are many factors in housing costs [[utilites, taxes and landscaping) where Michigan can be comparatively expensive.

And the larger point is that utilities are just an expense; the upfront housing costs are an investment, with a probably return. What is "cheaper", a 200k home in Michigan or a 400k home in California? Over the long run, the CA home will probably be cheaper, because it will appreciate at a faster level than the Michigan home. A home is an investment; if you're getting no return, it's a bad investment whether $1 or $100 million.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

These days, a $400,000 house in CA is not in any location I'd want to live in, [[he says, typing from CA).

[mwilbert]

There is nothing "insane" about pointing out that it costs thousands more annually in utilities living in Michigan compared to other states. That's part of housing costs, and needs to be factored in.

I never claimed that Michigan is more expensive than California, that's you basically ranting before reading. Obviously Michigan is relatively cheap, but there are many factors in housing costs [[utilites, taxes and landscaping) where Michigan can be comparatively expensive.

And the larger point is that utilities are just an expense; the upfront housing costs are an investment, with a probably return. What is "cheaper", a 200k home in Michigan or a 400k home in California? Over the long run, the CA home will probably be cheaper, because it will appreciate at a faster level than the Michigan home. A home is an investment; if you're getting no return, it's a bad investment whether $1 or $100 million.

The main return you should expect on an investment in a home is the ability to live in it. Of course you can also make a profit when you sell it, even a large profit, but for most homeowners most or all of the benefit is the housing provided. Of course, people who think they know the future course of home prices in a particular area are welcome to speculate, but it is more speculation than investment, and worse, it is a speculation that is significantly cash-flow negative while you hold it. The data is pretty clear that over a long time frame, housing is an indifferent investment. See, for example http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...t-a-great.aspx

[Gpwrangler]

The main return you should expect on an investment in a home is the ability to live in it. Of course you can also make a profit when you sell it, even a large profit, but for most homeowners most or all of the benefit is the housing provided. Of course, people who think they know the future course of home prices in a particular area are welcome to speculate, but it is more speculation than investment, and worse, it is a speculation that is significantly cash-flow negative while you hold it. The data is pretty clear that over a long time frame, housing is an indifferent investment. See, for example http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...t-a-great.aspx

I bought mine to live in, not to use as an ATM or for retirement. That's what 401k is for.

[ABetterDetroit]

B-E is a very niche market. It will never, at least not in our lifetimes, be a high cost neighborhood. It's for lovers of period architecture, and that's basically it. Granted, very beautiful homes, and interesting history. But not remotely urban [[lots are smaller and walkability is more practical in even Novi), not a good investment, horrible crime issues, and zero services.

Uhh... 100k purchase price and 3 years later the house sold for 525k a profit of 425k less expenses. I jog by often and the owner was living in it doing the renovations himself.

This proves Bham market analysis sucks. He just makes up what he wants to be true as a Detroit hater and post it based on his miserable attitude about Detroit.

Bhams declared “not a good investment” was dead wrong. Nothing left but his weaseling because he never admits to being wrong.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...33-20733?row=1

Just scroll down to property history to see the profits

[renf]

That is a surprisingly large increase in property value in a relatively short time.

[Worldsgreatest]

Yep, all the doubters are consistently being proven wrong. The people who love the city, invest in it and see it's great value are winning big time.

Boston Edison is a solid neighborhood and it's going to spread.

[aj3647]

But $500k in the burbs doesn't buy true old world craftsmanship or historical significance. More often than not it buys a mcmansion. In sprawl. Sometimes it's not always all about money.

Just because something is old does not mean it has "historical significance."

[Junjie]

Just because something is old does not mean it has "historical significance."

The fact that old world craftsmanship does not imply historical significance was already indicated by the use of the word "or" rather than "and" in the post you replied to [[for the second time in 3 years).