Was Ilitch seriously considering moving the Red Wings out of Detroit?

[Gistok]

The 3 Detroit casinos employ over 20,000 people, and are easily the biggest job providers downtown. They make the sainted Dan Gilbert's [[massively subsidized) job numbers look like bupkis.

What percentage of your vast number of posts do you actually verify before posting statistics here?

Detroit Casino job figures 2013.... 7,633.....
http://www.americangaming.org/newsro...e-paid-workers

[MAcc]

What percentage of your vast number of posts do you actually verify before posting statistics here?

Detroit Casino job figures 2013.... 7,633.....
http://www.americangaming.org/newsro...e-paid-workers

You seem good with data. You have any data that shows the supposed population/economic boom in downtown/midtown?

[rb336]

You seem good with data. You have any data that shows the supposed population/economic boom in downtown/midtown?

go there. it is absolutely self-evident

[Bham1982]

go there. it is absolutely self-evident

In other words, no. You have no such evidence.

[southen]

In other words, no. You have no such evidence.

the frequency that development news has appeared the last couple of years is evidence enough. some people on here could benefit from a visit to downtown and midtown.

for a guy who pulls employment numbers out of thin air you sure do have high standards for evidence...

[emu steve]

Isn't some of this 'great debate' kind of fallacious?

When it comes to something like population, development, employment, etc. one really isn't interested in a single point in time but the trend: "forward looking".

We are talking 2015, 2020, 2025, 2030, etc.

I think it is a consensus of posters here [[arm chair forecasters) that come 2020: population, development, employment, etc. in downtown and midtown will be significantly higher then they are today.

One can look at the size of the growing housing inventory, increases in office space, retail space, etc.

Isn't that Gilbert is all about: increasing the size of the office and retail space inventory?

[EastsideAl]

You seem good with data. You have any data that shows the supposed population/economic boom in downtown/midtown?

go there. it is absolutely self-evident

Or you could check rental/sales listings, or look at residential vacancy rates. Just the increase in pricing alone would let you know that there's some significant pressure in the market in those areas.

[Dan_the_man]

Not to mention that none of these new projects would be able to get financing if the banks didn't think they would succeed.

[erikd]

Detroit has lost people, wealth, and jobs, since the 1990's, and this is all confirmed by the Census. How is that "spinning things"? Can you explain how I am "skewing the Census"?

What would be your "spin"? Probably something about "ignore the data, just take my word for it"?

Sorry, but no, I take actual Census data over your "eyeball test". There were more big projects downtown/midtown 20 years ago than now.

And Detroit is obviously the entire city, not one neighborhood. Obviously I'm judging Detroit as a whole, not slicing and dicing to fit some tortured stretch of an argument.

First off, the discussion at hand is about the recent growth in downtown and midtown, which you seem to be claiming isn't actually happening.

While you are certainly correct that the city as a whole had more people, jobs, and wealth in the '90s than it does now, it doesn't negate the very real positive momentum that has recently begun to take hold in some areas of the city.

From the mid '50s until fairly recently, the entire city [[downtown/midtown/neighborhoods) has experienced incessant economic and population decline.

Over the last few years, that trend has reversed in a handful of areas, most notably in downtown, midtown, and Corktown. To be sure, there are still more areas in decline than areas experiencing growth, but the fact that things are turning around in the city's core is not an unimportant or insignificant change.

Also, your claim that "there were more big projects downtown/midtown 20 years ago than now" is completely ridiculous. There were very few projects, big or small, that were happening in downtown and midtown 20 years ago. Claiming that there were more big projects happening 20 years ago is ludicrous.