"Financial Armageddon" coming to Wayne County?

[jackie5275]

They can refinish Mound road with part of the money from the sale of the jail. They are going to have to consolidate court locations and other operations in any scenario.

The cost estimates for redoing Mound & moving the courts out there were $600 million dollars. Selling the unfinished jail for $20 million won't cover it. Pay attention please.

[DetroitBoy]

The cost estimates for redoing Mound & moving the courts out there were $600 million dollars. Selling the unfinished jail for $20 million won't cover it. Pay attention please.

I do not believe cost estimates on any project that are being provided by Wayne County. They have demonstrated their inability to make any prudent decisions and most people have no faith in their ability to run the county.

Everyone that works there had a hand in this fiasco including your former executive who just walked with no fallout from the gross mismanagement under his watch. I don't know any sitting executive who has had this type of corruption in their organization who escaped unscathed and did not have the integrity to stand up and take responsibility for what went on within his administration. As the top executive, he is responsible. To the contrary, Ficano came out brazenly denouncing any responsibility which just shows the magnitude of the lack of integrity of the people running the place.

I hope Govenor Snyder moves quickly to name an Emergency Manager for the county. A good house cleaning of the place is long overdue. A skilled person with knowledge of bankruptcy proceedings is needed instead of more elected politicos who will continue to serve up more of the same.

[bailey]

I do not believe cost estimates on any project that are being provided by Wayne County. They have demonstrated their inability to make any prudent decisions and most people have no faith in their ability to run the county.

Everyone that works there had a hand in this fiasco including your former executive who just walked with no fallout from the gross mismanagement under his watch. I don't know any sitting executive who has had this type of corruption in their organization who escaped unscathed and did not have the integrity to stand up and take responsibility for what went on within his administration. As the top executive, he is responsible. To the contrary, Ficano came out brazenly denouncing any responsibility which just shows the magnitude of the lack of integrity of the people running the place.

I hope Govenor Snyder moves quickly to name an Emergency Manager for the county. A good house cleaning of the place is long overdue. A skilled person with knowledge of bankruptcy proceedings is needed instead of more elected politicos who will continue to serve up more of the same.

All fine. But come on now. A courthouse, a holding facility, a juvenile detention facility and a new county jail is going to cost a bit more to build than 50 million [[which is Gilbert's offer for the package of buildings.)

What I'd like the county to do is exactly what they seem to be doing... putting the brakes on ALL of it and assessing the ACTUAL numbers. I'd think an offer north of 100 million for just the jail site would be something that makes financial sense. Pay off the fail jail debt and start new at Mound on just the new Jail.

[DetroitBoy]

All fine. But come on now. A courthouse, a holding facility, a juvenile detention facility and a new county jail is going to cost a bit more to build than 50 million [[which is Gilbert's offer for the package of buildings.)

What I'd like the county to do is exactly what they seem to be doing... putting the brakes on ALL of it and assessing the ACTUAL numbers. I'd think an offer north of 100 million for just the jail site would be something that makes financial sense. Pay off the fail jail debt and start new at Mound on just the new Jail.

I am getting very tired of listening to this constant commentary on the need for a new jail. Providing lock up space for criminals and juvenile delinquents is not the primary reason for having a county government nor should it be at the top of the list of priorities when roads, public safety and a host of other items should be a lot higher on the list. They have a place now to lock them up. Keep using it and send the overflow to other counties and towns and pay them for the space.

It is very frustrating to continue hearing that supporting the crime industry in Wayne County is as important as many other needs which should have a lot higher priority. In this financial crisis, people are going to have to decide if providing new, comfortable incarceration for criminals is more important than providing essential services. Since when did getting arrested mean the accommodations provided should be state of the art?

[jackie5275]

I am getting very tired of listening to this constant commentary on the need for a new jail. Providing lock up space for criminals and juvenile delinquents is not the primary reason for having a county government nor should it be at the top of the list of priorities when roads, public safety and a host of other items should be a lot higher on the list. They have a place now to lock them up. Keep using it and send the overflow to other counties and towns and pay them for the space.

It is very frustrating to continue hearing that supporting the crime industry in Wayne County is as important as many other needs which should have a lot higher priority. In this financial crisis, people are going to have to decide if providing new, comfortable incarceration for criminals is more important than providing essential services. Since when did getting arrested mean the accommodations provided should be state of the art?

You say that public safety is a top priority. How is the public going to be safe if criminals are not locked up? You call the jails a crime industry. Actually, it's more of a law enforcement industry. Crime industries are selling drugs, running chop shops, etc.

The plans for the new jail don't provide comfortable incarceration, but they are humane. Wayne County jail inmates sued over what they considered to be inhumane conditions back in the 1970s. The court order that came from that law suit to provide humane conditions is still in effect today.

I haven't stated on this thread that there is a need for a new jail. I, personally, don't think there is. Much of this, I think, was to establish a "Robert Ficano Justice Center". However, one of the jails is close to 100 years old. Mechanical things like HVAC, elevators, and sliding cell doors have only so long of a useful life, so I can see how some in power think one is needed to replace that 100 year old one. Then the thought is while we're at it we might as well go all the way and have one building to replace them all.

There are a whole lot more issues involved in the new jail build/not build decision that have been discussed in various sources around town. You need to pay attention to them before making comments & assertions from your bleacher bench view.

[bailey]

Providing lock up space for criminals and juvenile delinquents is not the primary reason for having a county government nor should it be at the top of the list of priorities when roads, public safety and a host of other items should be a lot higher on the list.

Last time I checked, locking criminals up is a large part of "public safety".

Wayne county has 2500+ prisoners spread across three facilities now. the consolidation of prisons into one 3000 bed facility was to [[as consolidations usually do) result in efficiencies that would have saved the county money over the long run. Ficano's regime botched it.

They have a place now to lock them up. Keep using it and send the overflow to other counties and towns and pay them for the space.

That is being penny wise and pound foolish. It costs money to house prisoners elsewhere [[if there is even the space to do it) and costs money to keep them spread across three facilities. Further Wayne County lost money when the US Marshalls stopped renting space from it because the facilities were so bad they wouldn't put prisoners there.

[Khorasaurus]

What I'd like the county to do is exactly what they seem to be doing... putting the brakes on ALL of it and assessing the ACTUAL numbers. I'd think an offer north of 100 million for just the jail site would be something that makes financial sense. Pay off the fail jail debt and start new at Mound on just the new Jail.

Unfortunately, when people sell real estate, they don't get the amount the want/need, they get the amount someone is willing to pay. And frankly I doubt there is anyone willing to pay more than Gilbert. Maybe they could get him up to $25-$30 million by playing hardball, but he also knows that if he waits for the County to go bankrupt, the Emergency Manager will sell it to him for $20 million or even less just to get rid of the carrying costs.

[bailey]

Unfortunately, when people sell real estate, they don't get the amount the want/need, they get the amount someone is willing to pay. And frankly I doubt there is anyone willing to pay more than Gilbert.

Sure, but we don't know if 50 million is all anyone will pay. Detroit is getting to be rather trendy. Maybe the Chicoms want to park some more money in the dirt over here as the have with the Freep building? I'd be down with an auction... if DG wants his fun zone, he can pay market rate. Maybe it IS 50 million....or maybe its 70-or 80 or maybe it's the 10 the county paid for it. Let's open it up and find out.... OR finish the damn jail. End of the day though, there are only those two choices...sell or finish, let's not sit on the site for 10 years.

Maybe they could get him up to $25-$30 million by playing hardball, but he also knows that if he waits for the County to go bankrupt, the Emergency Manager will sell it to him for $20 million or even less just to get rid of the carrying costs.

Or, DG could lose it to a group that has better connections to the new regime or to the EM and we get a parking deck on the site.

Or, he does get it for 20 million in that process. It'll be, what? 5-6 years from now in the best of cases? Meanwhile, he's been eating those years of losses at Greektown because he's not able to finish up his fun zone.

I'm going to go back to what I said earlier in the thread, I think this is Evans negotiating in the press. I'm betting a deal will be done because DG has a vision, has the money, and the County needs cash .

[ABetterDetroit]

Sure, but we don't know if 50 million is all anyone will pay. Detroit is getting to be rather trendy. Maybe the Chicoms want to park some more money in the dirt over here as the have with the Freep building? I'd be down with an auction... if DG wants his fun zone, he can pay market rate. Maybe it IS 50 million....or maybe its 70-or 80 or maybe it's the 10 the county paid for it. Let's open it up and find out.... OR finish the damn jail. End of the day though, there are only those two choices...sell or finish, let's not sit on the site for 10 years.


Or, DG could lose it to a group that has better connections to the new regime or to the EM and we get a parking deck on the site.

Or, he does get it for 20 million in that process. It'll be, what? 5-6 years from now in the best of cases? Meanwhile, he's been eating those years of losses at Greektown because he's not able to finish up his fun zone.

I'm going to go back to what I said earlier in the thread, I think this is Evans negotiating in the press. I'm betting a deal will be done because DG has a vision, has the money, and the County needs cash .

Detroit dirt is not going for 80 million a pop, if it was Wayne county's income problems would be fading fast [[property taxes). Auction is a great idea if its worth more than the 20 mill offered. The David Stott brought 9.4 mill for a pretty decent 38 story building in September 2013 at a well advertised open auction that Gilbert bailed out of. Can't let greed or mistakes run the day like it did when they auctioned the silverdome. If they do sell to anyone just get a development deal in a strong contract for x amount of square footage [[not just a parking deck) in x amount of time for a GD change.