Ameliorating Poverty and Income Inequality in Detroit

[Wesley Mouch]

a hockey arena doesn't do a thing for my neighborhood. Chrysler, Ford and GM aren't coming back en masse to urban Detroit. There's no neighborhood trickle down benefits for anything the DEGC announces, despite what people on this board seem to think. Community Benefits Agreements would be the bare minimum that could be done to provide some tactile, contractually accountable promises that go beyond agreeable soundbite rhetoric.

Hype, we have received promises 'beyond agreeable soundbite rhetoric' in the past. It was the promise that we'll leave your pathetic town and go where commerce is welcomed. Comerica -> Texas. KMart -> Chicago. GM -> Mexico. American Axel -> Mexico.

Nobody signs 'community benefits agreements' unless there's a company benefit. Right now, there's little benefit to most companies staying in Detroit.

Where you do get community benefits agreements is from companies that must be in Detroit. Marathon for example. They have millions to billions invested in SW Detroit.

And here's the real sad part. Who benefits? Mostly its the Don Bardens and Bobby Fergusons. Well congratulations! With the help of Jesse Jackson, you got the opportunity to donate to Operation Push in Chicago. And you got some over-inflated contracts given to the friends of politicians. Your CBAs play only into the hands of black crony capitalists that have hurt Detroit badly.

Here's the fact. You can't manipulate the market. You can set rules all day long about who gets how much and how they have to invest in what you want them to. But unless you really create a society in Detroit where educated and motivated workers make real stuff, you're just moving deck chairs around on a sinking ship.

Oh, so you favor killing charters to save education. Brilliant. More union power for city workers? Brilliant. No to Edison to fix streetlights, we've got it under control with our lighting department who hire the right people? Brilliant. A new small business in Richmond with new, efficient ways of laying sewer pipes? Too bad, you're don't look like us. Do business in Detroit, but only if you give bribes to my friends [[CBAs)? Brilliant.

[Hypestyles]

unfettered profit-driven capitalism is not a religious philosophy, though I suppose most Americans treat it as such. There are better ways to create a sustainable, safe society. Detroit remains in emergency status, regardless of what the federal bankruptcy judge[[s) says. Marginal upticks in white collar employment based on whatever tech startups and Quicken Enterprises-related positions relocate downtown aren't helping in the quality of life for folks in the broader neighborhoods. http://www.childrensdefense.org/libr...overtyNow.html http://cdf.childrensdefense.org/site...&em_id=40942.0

Poverty hurts children and our nation’s future. This stark statement is backed by years of scientific research and the more we learn about the brain and its development the more devastatingly true we know this to be. Childhood poverty can and does scar children for life. Yet in the largest economy on earth we stand by as 14.7 million languish in poverty. Here’s a snapshot of who our poor children are today: Every other baby is a child of color. And 1 in 2 Black babies is poor – the poorest child in America. 1 in 3 Hispanic children under 5 is poor during their years of rapid brain development. More than 1 in 4 urban children and nearly 1 in 4 rural children is poor. 1 in 5 of all children in America is poor—14.7 million children. 1 in 6 Black children is extremely poor living on less than $8 a day. 1 in 7 Hispanic children under five is extremely poor. 1 in 8 Hispanic children is poor. Less than 1 in 9 White children is poor; 4.1 million children. A child of color is more than twice as likely to be poor as a White child. Of the 14.7 million children living beneath the poverty line in 2013, defined as a family of four living on less than $23,834 a year, or $16.25 a person a day, over 40 percent lived in extreme poverty on less than $11,917 a year, half the poverty line – barely $8 a person a day. The 14.7 million poor children in America exceeds the populations of 12 U.S. states combined: Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming and is greater than the populations of Sweden and Costa Rica combined. Our nearly 6.5 million extremely poor children exceeds the combined populations of Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming and is greater than the populations of Denmark or Finland. It is a national disgrace that so many poor children live in the United States of America –the world’s richest economy. It doesn’t have to be this way. It’s costly. And it’s the greatest threat to our future national, economic, and military security. The Children’s Defense Fund has just released a groundbreaking report called Ending Child Poverty Now showing for the first time how America could end child poverty, as defined by the Supplemental Poverty measure, for 60 percent of all poor children and 72 percent of all poor Black children. We can make this happen by investing another 2 percent of the federal budget to improve existing programs and policies that increase parental employment, make work pay, and ensure children’s basic needs are met. Poverty for children under 3 and children in single parent households would drop 64 percent and 97 percent of all poor children would experience improvements in their economic circumstances. CDF contracted with the non-partisan, independent Urban Institute to generate real numbers on the costs to implement improvements to existing policies and programs and the number of children who would benefit. CDF’s report shows how relatively modest changes in policies we know work can be combined to significantly reduce child poverty, and implemented right now if our political leaders put common good, common sense and economic sense for children first to improve the lives and futures of millions of children, and save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars each year. CDF’s report estimates a cost of $77.2 billion a year for the combined proposed policy improvements and suggests multiple tradeoffs our country can make to pay for this huge, long overdue and urgently needed reduction in child poverty without raising the federal deficit including: Closing tax loopholes that let U.S. corporations avoid $90 billion annually in federal income taxes by shifting profits to subsidiaries in foreign tax havens; or Eliminating tax breaks for the wealthy by taxing capital gains and dividends at the same rate as wages, saving more than $84 billion a year; or Scrapping the F-35 fighter jet program already several years behind schedule and 68 percent over budget and still not producing fully functioning planes. For the $1.5 trillion projected costs of this program, the nation could reduce child poverty 60 percent for 19 years, potentially breaking the cycle of intergenerational poverty. - See more at:

http://cdf.childrensdefense.org/site....htILG4Ni.dpuf

[ABetterDetroit]

unfettered profit-driven capitalism is not a religious philosophy, though I suppose most Americans treat it as such. There are better ways to create a sustainable, safe society. Detroit remains in emergency status, regardless of what the federal bankruptcy judge[[s) says. Marginal upticks in white collar employment based on whatever tech startups and Quicken Enterprises-related positions relocate downtown aren't helping in the quality of life for folks in the broader neighborhoods.

I hope that your not thinking socialism. Even if that's your preferred ideal society it has been such a dismal failure around the world and the chances of it operating successfuly in the United States are absolutely zero. Socialism breeds corruption virtually everywhere it has been tried, and advocating it to solve Detroits ills would be a extreme disservice to the citizens and children of Detroit. Detroit deserves real solutions not someone's ideal ideology that has no realistic chance of success.

[Det_ard]

Hype, we have received promises 'beyond agreeable soundbite rhetoric' in the past. It was the promise that we'll leave your pathetic town and go where commerce is welcomed. Comerica -> Texas. KMart -> Chicago. GM -> Mexico. American Axel -> Mexico.

Nobody signs 'community benefits agreements' unless there's a company benefit. Right now, there's little benefit to most companies staying in Detroit.

Where you do get community benefits agreements is from companies that must be in Detroit. Marathon for example. They have millions to billions invested in SW Detroit.

And here's the real sad part. Who benefits? Mostly its the Don Bardens and Bobby Fergusons. Well congratulations! With the help of Jesse Jackson, you got the opportunity to donate to Operation Push in Chicago. And you got some over-inflated contracts given to the friends of politicians. Your CBAs play only into the hands of black crony capitalists that have hurt Detroit badly.

Here's the fact. You can't manipulate the market. You can set rules all day long about who gets how much and how they have to invest in what you want them to. But unless you really create a society in Detroit where educated and motivated workers make real stuff, you're just moving deck chairs around on a sinking ship.

Oh, so you favor killing charters to save education. Brilliant. More union power for city workers? Brilliant. No to Edison to fix streetlights, we've got it under control with our lighting department who hire the right people? Brilliant. A new small business in Richmond with new, efficient ways of laying sewer pipes? Too bad, you're don't look like us. Do business in Detroit, but only if you give bribes to my friends [[CBAs)? Brilliant.

That post is borderline brilliant.

[Wesley Mouch]

unfettered profit-driven capitalism is not a religious philosophy, though I suppose most Americans treat it as such. There are better ways to create a sustainable, safe society. Detroit remains in emergency status, regardless of what the federal bankruptcy judge[[s) says. Marginal upticks in white collar employment based on whatever tech startups and Quicken Enterprises-related positions relocate downtown aren't helping in the quality of life for folks in the broader neighborhoods. ...

What are the better ways? Poverty is in quick decline around the world, thanks to the profits that capitalism has granted people like Gate and Buffett. Here's quote from Gates Letter website:

To me, one of the best ways to measure progress is to look at how many children are dying of preventable causes. And today, more kids are living to see their fifth birthday than ever before. This year, for at least the 42nd year in a row, the child mortality rate has fallen. And it’s not just moving in the right direction—it’s falling faster than anyone expected. The Economist ran a great article about this in September, where it estimated that just since 2001, the world has saved 13.6 million children’s lives. It’s hard to think of a better sign the world is improving.

And you think we're failing?Read more: http://www.gatesnotes.com/About-Bill...-2014It'll blow your mind how much progress is being made. But you're right about Detroit. The situation remains grim. Its is not acceptable. Much work remains.I read your Children's Defense link, here are their recommendations:

1. Closing tax loopholes that let U.S. corporations avoid $90 billion in federal income taxes each year by shifting profits to subsidiaries in tax havens; or2. Eliminating tax breaks for the wealthy by taxing capital gains and dividends at the same rates as wages saving more than $84 billion a year; or3. Closing 23 tax loopholes in former House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp’s Tax Reform Act of 2014 which would free up an average of $79.3 billion a year; or4. Decreasing 14 percent of the nation’s FY2015 $578 billion military budget. The U.S. has less than 5 percent of the world’s population but 37 percent of the world’s military expenditures; or5. Scrapping the F-35 fighter jet program which is several years behind schedule and 68 percent over budget and still not producing fully functional planes. For the nearly $1.5 trillion projected costs of this program, the nation could reduce child poverty by 60 percent for 19 years.

I support #1, 2, and 3. I don't agree with demilitarization. Sept. 11, Syria, ISIS, Ukrain, North Korea, Iran are all the proof I need that we need a strong military. Of course that doesn't make the F-35 a great plane either. Hype.... things are not all rosy, but capitalism is proving that it can rise to the challenge of world health and poverty. We can and should disagree about exactly how, but there's no doubt that we're doing much better than the Soviet Union or China has done / did for their citizens and the world. That's no hype.If you do nothing else, read gatesnotes.com

[Dan Wesson]

Ameliorating Poverty and Income Inequality in Detroit

An exercise in futility.
It ain't never going to happen.
The uneducated and poor have been amongst us for millennia and more.

What blows me away is how so much of it is State sponsored.

[JBMcB]

Remove barriers to entry into the market. Burdensome regulations lead to an informal economy, which greatly limits economic mobility. If you're running an illegal business, you aren't going to get, or have access, to investment capital. You aren't going to be getting insurance or retirement benefits. And you probably aren't paying taxes which opens you up for liability from the IRS if you ever intend on going legit.

Note, we aren't talking about DE-regulation, just making it easier, faster and cheaper to comply with existing regulations.

Worked like gangbusters in Peru:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2015/...invisible-wall

Pissed off the Maoists something fierce.

[Dumpling]

While we are at Peru, the following is one of my favorite reads.

http://whynationsfail.com/

[Wesley Mouch]

Remove barriers to entry into the market. Burdensome regulations lead to an informal economy, which greatly limits economic mobility. If you're running an illegal business, you aren't going to get, or have access, to investment capital. You aren't going to be getting insurance or retirement benefits. And you probably aren't paying taxes which opens you up for liability from the IRS if you ever intend on going legit.

Note, we aren't talking about DE-regulation, just making it easier, faster and cheaper to comply with existing regulations.

...

There is room for appropriate regulation. And there's a need for love of business and profit within the city limits.

[Canadian Visitor]

While on the one hand I'm glad I stirred some interest....

I do fear that this thread has wandered off into variance rants on the virtues or excesses or failures of capitalism or Marxism.

What I was aiming for was the pragmatic and do-able solutions.

****

For those with a more 'conservative' bent; removing barriers to jobs or education or self-sufficiency.......

Great!

Which barriers? How much would it cost [[forgone tax revenue)? Where would you 'find' the money? Which tax is more important to lower, or exemption to raise? Why? And is it do-able? Would either party support such a change at the state level? Would a ballot measure pass?

If so, what are you doing about it?

****

For those with a more 'liberal' bent, what 1 or 2 key initiatives would help the most, and be easy[[ish) to deliver within 3 years?

Transit? Lower Tuition? More affordable childcare?

How much would they cost? Could support from both parties be achieved? Could it be done municipally? Where would you find the money?

If its do-able; what are YOU doing to make it happen?

***

So often I think people either give up on improving their community or the world because they see how difficult the 'big' changes are; and how obstructionist the 'other side' can be.

This thread was meant to spur discussion on the do-able, and hopefully inspire some of you to help make the do-able, DONE within a short while.

Some of that is public policy and mobilization; some is more nuanced or community oriented.

Either way......less 'big politics' and more practical please!

Oh and try not to bash the ideas of others, but instead be constructive where you see and idea as impractical or lower priority.

[Wesley Mouch]

Practical:
-> Minimize or eliminate requirements to hire locally, use local suppliers, hire blacks or women [[as was true under CAY Exec Order #22).
-> Reform public pensions so they don't consume 50% of municipal budgets.
-> Encourage school reforms [[charters)
-> Modernize the permitting process at city hall, up to at least 1990 standards.
-> Halt the war on drugs to reduce the impact of drug money on urban America.
-> Regionalize the police departments, because civic boundaries mean nothing to criminals.

[G-DDT]

The push to remove the regulations that would protect us citizens in the area of consumer health, environmental health, better working conditions [[or labor treatment), and in so many areas thoroughly disturbs me.

Privatization is another scary issue. Prisons, municipal functions, law enforcement [[that includes Hamtramck), and areas of welfare or poverty alleviation [[that goes for rest homes, senior care facilities, orphanages, etc.) should not be allowed to fall completely into the hands of private interests. The options can be there [[as in, if one wants a religiously run facility). Yet, all one has to do is stay in a shelter run by by a rather kooky operation that has it's own imposing ideals on sexuality [[which I've seen go radically and detrimentally in either direction) within the facility or their own esoterically fundamental and intolerant religious beliefs, and you can see why any self-respecting individual [[no matter how hard-pressed their situation is) won't stay in a town that only has that one operation.

To further elaborate. Why do you think Fox News channels exist? Who really watches that tripe [[I still believe there's some self-respecting conservatives who get really irked when folks assume that they are closely allied with such an abominous "media source")? Is it there to just play a collusion [[very important word to know where any politics is involved) game that goes back in forth with them and Colbert/Stewart, just to manipulate and shift our understanding of what is "liberal" vs. "conservative" [[making the "bad cop" look evil, and the "not so bad cop" look like the only option)? OR [[to bring it to the private interest point) is it there to be a constant strumming to seniors hedged into living in a conservative-run, privatized senior home, doped up on mind-numbing pills, and having fear drummed into them from the only one allowed source of news that this private interest facility will play on the big screen in the rec room. Fear is the great manipulator, and seniors do vote in large turn-outs, so when it comes time for absentee voting-or "bringing the vote home" to occur, a facility [[and it's occasional guest speakers-be they evangelical, be they political representatives) love to push [[in a cult-control manner) them in "the right direction".

Sorry for the unnecessary digression and elaboration, but my point is, de-regulation and unchecked privatization is not the route I'd suggest, no matter how "fed-up" folks are with tedious bureaucratic processes and holding each tax-payer accountable.

[Wesley Mouch]

The push to remove the regulations that would protect us citizens in the area of consumer health, environmental health, better working conditions [[or labor treatment), and in so many areas thoroughly disturbs me.

Privatization is another scary issue. Prisons, municipal functions, law enforcement [[that includes Hamtramck), and areas of welfare or poverty alleviation [[that goes for rest homes, senior care facilities, orphanages, etc.) should not be allowed to fall completely into the hands of private interests. The options can be there [[as in, if one wants a religiously run facility). Yet, all one has to do is stay in a shelter run by by a rather kooky operation that has it's own imposing ideals on sexuality [[which I've seen go radically and detrimentally in either direction) within the facility or their own esoterically fundamental and intolerant religious beliefs, and you can see why any self-respecting individual [[no matter how hard-pressed their situation is) won't stay in a town that only has that one operation.

To further elaborate. Why do you think Fox News channels exist? Who really watches that tripe [[I still believe there's some self-respecting conservatives who get really irked when folks assume that they are closely allied with such an abominous "media source")? Is it there to just play a collusion [[very important word to know where any politics is involved) game that goes back in forth with them and Colbert/Stewart, just to manipulate and shift our understanding of what is "liberal" vs. "conservative" [[making the "bad cop" look evil, and the "not so bad cop" look like the only option)? OR [[to bring it to the private interest point) is it there to be a constant strumming to seniors hedged into living in a conservative-run, privatized senior home, doped up on mind-numbing pills, and having fear drummed into them from the only one allowed source of news that this private interest facility will play on the big screen in the rec room. Fear is the great manipulator, and seniors do vote in large turn-outs, so when it comes time for absentee voting-or "bringing the vote home" to occur, a facility [[and it's occasional guest speakers-be they evangelical, be they political representatives) love to push [[in a cult-control manner) them in "the right direction".

Sorry for the unnecessary digression and elaboration, but my point is, de-regulation and unchecked privatization is not the route I'd suggest, no matter how "fed-up" folks are with tedious bureaucratic processes and holding each tax-payer accountable.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian/conservative, and I think Fox News is mostly garbage.

As to your deregulation comments, this is not an either-or. One can lighten and streamline regulation and have a better environmental/social impact. Duplicate regulation by multiple entities can hurt real progress.

Same for privatization. A switch to a full privatization isn't the right move anymore than full in-house operations. A balance is appropriate. Giving all private operations to any single operator is a mistake, in my book. That just opens to door to kickbacks to get the work. You want everyone hungry, and everyone in the game. You want small players, not just Veolia or General Electric. No good reason why most services like garbage pickup couldn't be handled by several firms who compete financially and in service quality. Our city needs to be a good manager of resources, and learn how to pick and judge services to residents.

[JBMcB]

The push to remove the regulations that would protect us citizens in the area of consumer health, environmental health, better working conditions [[or labor treatment), and in so many areas thoroughly disturbs me.

It disturbs me, too. But that's not what we are talking about. Listen to the piece on NPR for perspective.

To long/didn't hear version:
Expensive licensing fees and lengthy, obtuse regulatory regimes affect the poor business owners much more than the big chains. It pushes them into the informal economy, where they have no resources to grow their way out of poverty, and they usually do not pay taxes or fees - revenue the city looses out on.

If it takes a year to get an occupancy permit to open a Bo Rics downtown - Bo Rics could care less - they'll sit on the property until they can move in. If you are leveraging your house to open your own barber shop, you can't wait a year until you start making money. You have mortgage payments NOW. You have to buy groceries NOW. So why bother? Cut people's hair in your basement, all-cash, no income reporting required, and you can stay on public assistance.