Black Ice

[Jimaz]

Even in '92, cars were still being manufactured this way [[one wheel drive).

You taught me something I didn't know. That's amazing. I'm genuinely shocked.

... I always wondered what would possess Germans to think this was a good idea for winter.

I think it's obviously a horrible idea for winter. There must be more to the story behind that.

Thanks for teaching me something new.

[Honky Tonk]

I always wondered what would possess Germans to think this was a good idea for winter.

It's not just the Germans. I bought a Volvo back in the day, [[Swedes, snow, got to be good, you know?) Rear wheel drive, one drive wheel. After owning it for a few years I wondered if anyone from Volvo ever bothered to test drive it in the snow? Reliability didn't such a hot item for them either. @ least my Beemer was fun to drive, on dry pavement.

[Islandman]

It's not just the Germans. I bought a Volvo back in the day, [[Swedes, snow, got to be good, you know?) Rear wheel drive, one drive wheel. After owning it for a few years I wondered if anyone from Volvo ever bothered to test drive it in the snow? Reliability didn't such a hot item for them either. @ least my Beemer was fun to drive, on dry pavement.

True that HT! Same with Volvo. Luckily, I've only "put" my car in a snowbank once.

[softailrider]

Even in '92, cars were still being manufactured this way [[one wheel drive). My BMW only has power to the passenger rear wheel. They have since changed the differential on the newer cars, and you can also do a swap, but I always wondered what would possess Germans to think this was a good idea for winter.

I had a 7 series about 10 years ago, it was almost a death trap in the winter. All that power went to the rear wheels. I would have rather had a used Dodge Neon that that thing during the winter.

[Gpwrangler]

You taught me something I didn't know. That's amazing. I'm genuinely shocked.

I think it's obviously a horrible idea for winter. There must be more to the story behind that.

Thanks for teaching me something new.

I would never have rear drive without a locking or limited slip differential. But blaming the car doesn't hold water. I drove "one wheel drive" for years and never had a problem [[not counting my Harley which I wouldn't trust in snow lol). It depends on driver skill which is apparently lacking these days.

[Islandman]

I've only wiped once in the BMW, as stated above. Lots of torquiness in that car. But I'll keep you in mind if I ever need a getaway driver, Gpwrangler.

No one is blaming the car, just saying it takes more skill to keep straight on ice, water, and snow without LSD. Hence why must people winter these cars. And most people aren't driving these types of cars. People are screwing up in FWD cars. And there is no skill in driving slower, what's lacking is common sense for the conditions.

[Honky Tonk]

I've only wiped once in the BMW, as stated above. Lots of torquiness in that car. But I'll keep you in mind if I ever need a getaway driver, Gpwrangler.

No one is blaming the car, just saying it takes more skill to keep straight on ice, water, and snow without LSD. Hence why must people winter these cars. And most people aren't driving these types of cars. People are screwing up in FWD cars. And there is no skill in driving slower, what's lacking is common sense for the conditions.

It takes even MORE skill to keep it on the road with LSD!

[G-DDT]

No. I will still insist. Suburban drivers [[and it's interesting to see who plays apologist to such habits) are ruder. You aren't driving alongside me, when I witness this. There is room, I signal, and someone has to speed up like a disrespectful jack-a-ninny to close the gap. Being aggressive and discourteous [[and I can't begin to tell you how many driving brochures going back to the '50s address this) on the road is what is making things far more hazardous for all concerned.

[G-DDT]

I came from a car family [[father worked for GM for over thirty years, ate, lived, and breathed cars.). His accidents were few [[the last one that pitched us into bankruptcy was because some kid distracts his dad driving a pick-up truck in Livonia, he crosses the lane, and head-on collides with my dad, totaling the car. Livonia police dragged their feet on getting us the accident report, by then, we already filed for bankruptcy). I say this, because, I too, was trained by him in parking lots to look in my fully-adjusted rear and side view mirrors and look over my shoulder, but this doesn't stop some mouth-breather from lurking there. I've only been in three accidents in my life: the black ice on Mt. Eliot [[and I'm still surprised at just how abiding that guy was about it), the brakes going out on the Dodge Aspen going 45 mph down Ford Rd. and coming up to a red light with stopped cars, and me sideswiping a compact with the honking huge Olds on 8 mile around 9 p. in the evening, because some guy-yes-was in my blindspot.
My mom had her Chevy Prism parked at a community pool in Westland, only to come out and find someone had bashed the bumper off it-no note, no responsible sense of accountability, or anything. Though parked in an average and central spot, the pool claimed the car was out of range from their surveillance cameras. A week later, the still noticeably battered [[yet, was scheduled to be fixed) car was at a Kroger's in Dearborn. When my brother and mom returned to the car they found a hostile note by some cowardly troll saying that our "piece of sh*t" was responsible for hitting their car and not notifying them. This obviously didn't happen, but it gave them an excuse to add insult to injury, puff up their suburban vehicular elitism, and call my family a bunch of foul words.
Just recently, my neighbors-a hard-working Iraqi family from New York-had an incident where a truck rear-ended their daughter's car. He told her to pull over to trade information. Though still shaken, she did, and he roared off "in the direction of Westland".
I have never experienced this kind of treatment in all my years of living in Detroit. So, I will maintain my position.

[Gpwrangler]

I've only wiped once in the BMW, as stated above. Lots of torquiness in that car. But I'll keep you in mind if I ever need a getaway driver, Gpwrangler.

No problem. I do a mean reverse J turn lol.

[Gpwrangler]

No. I will still insist. Suburban drivers [[and it's interesting to see who plays apologist to such habits) are ruder. You aren't driving alongside me, when I witness this. There is room, I signal, and someone has to speed up like a disrespectful jack-a-ninny to close the gap. Being aggressive and discourteous [[and I can't begin to tell you how many driving brochures going back to the '50s address this) on the road is what is making things far more hazardous for all concerned.

A quick blink, and a slight acceleration, will prevent this. If there's room you can get in, assuming you have enough power. You are right, this is asinine behavior and seems to be suburban in nature. But if there's room, I'm getting in.

[Zacha341]

While texting -- with the rear defroster on the blink as well!!

It takes even MORE skill to keep it on the road with LSD!

[Jimaz]

I like the way this thread has "careened" from black ice into driving skills. That could be an even more helpful discussion.

A few years ago I had to work out the tricky skill of how to crab the rear end of a car sideways within a cramped driveway to allow space for another car. In driving school they taught us parallel parking but never that.

The problem is this: How should you steer the front wheels to get the unsteerable rear wheels to crab as far as possible in the desired sideways direction while you're constrained to moving only a few feet forward and backward per repetition?

Part of the solution is to turn the steering wheel as far as possible every time you turn it [[may cause power steering stress). This is so the task can be accomplished in the fewest repetitions.

The solution itself is to steer so that the front wheels trace a diamond [[◊) pattern while going forward and backward. If you draw the diamond pattern clockwise, the whole car turns clockwise [[rear end moves left). If you draw the diamond pattern counterclockwise, the whole car turns counterclockwise [[rear end moves right).

One way to demonstrate this is with a closed pair of scissors lying flat on your desk. Place a finger in either fingerhole of the scissors. This represents the front wheels. If you move your finger in a diamond pattern in a clockwise direction, the point of the scissors [[representing the real wheels) rotates in a clockwise direction. Draw the diamond in a counterclockwise direction, the point moves counterclockwise.

It's how to steer the otherwise unsteerable end of your car.

Did that make any sense?

Sincerely.

[Honky Tonk]

Did that make any sense?

No, but then I'm a crab this morning.

[Gpwrangler]

I like the way this thread has "careened" from black ice into driving skills. That could be an even more helpful discussion.

A few years ago I had to work out the tricky skill of how to crab the rear end of a car sideways within a cramped driveway to allow space for another car. In driving school they taught us parallel parking but never that.

The problem is this: How should you steer the front wheels to get the unsteerable rear wheels to crab as far as possible in the desired sideways direction while you're constrained to moving only a few feet forward and backward per repetition?

Part of the solution is to turn the steering wheel as far as possible every time you turn it [[may cause power steering stress). This is so the task can be accomplished in the fewest repetitions.

The solution itself is to steer so that the front wheels trace a diamond [[◊) pattern while going forward and backward. If you draw the diamond pattern clockwise, the whole car turns clockwise [[rear end moves left). If you draw the diamond pattern counterclockwise, the whole car turns counterclockwise [[rear end moves right).

One way to demonstrate this is with a closed pair of scissors lying flat on your desk. Place a finger in either fingerhole of the scissors. This represents the front wheels. If you move your finger in a diamond pattern in a clockwise direction, the point of the scissors [[representing the real wheels) rotates in a clockwise direction. Draw the diamond in a counterclockwise direction, the point moves counterclockwise.

It's how to steer the otherwise unsteerable end of your car.

Did that make any sense?

Sincerely.

Yes. Before I had car dollies I used this method to put my summer car so tight against the garage wall people would wonder how I got it that way.

[Gpwrangler]

True that HT! Same with Volvo. Luckily, I've only "put" my car in a snowbank once.

Cant beat Volvo's all wheel drive cars. Only limitation is the underbody clearance.