What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

**emu steve** · June-15-17, 09:26 AM

BTW, ?:

Are plans to have DMC next to LCA dead with the Pistons' deal with HFH in New Center?

OR are they completely independent decisions by Wings/DMC? [[Pistons do their thing and the Wings theirs).

**emu steve** · June-15-17, 12:50 PM

MLive.com has some nice photos. Impressive.

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/i...incart_m-rpt-2

**EGrant** · June-15-17, 02:31 PM

Interesting they are calling the sections "Portals".

**SpartanDawg** · June-15-17, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

MLive.com has some nice photos. Impressive.

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/i...incart_m-rpt-2

ummm there are some EXTREMELY EXCITING details in this article... the ceiling can light up and change to any from 1000 colors?? the examples they mentioned was "exploding red when the wings skate on the ice or the US flag during the anthem"

that's insane!!!! wow they went all out with this arena...

that and the wrap around in the concourse projecting the games is seriously insane...

detroit is going to have the premier sports venue in the NBA and NHL

[[also happy to see we'll have the biggest scoreboard in the NHL, sadly not the NBA though i believe cleveland has that one)

**EGrant** · June-16-17, 06:13 AM

Oh but people are still mad that there is not a physically impossible LED screen on top of the entire roof. "Bait and switch" they are calling it.

**WPitonya** · June-16-17, 11:33 AM

http://www.districtdetroit.com/live-web-cam

It looks like the giant pizza man is being applied to the roof.

**313WX** · June-17-17, 08:25 AM

Isn't this fucker [[Robert Davis) supposed to be in jail right now?

This is a perfect example of why we can never have good things happen around here.

DDA: Suit to block funding could cause Pistons to 'reverse' arena plans

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ans/403101001/

**southen** · June-17-17, 08:34 AM

I doubt this holds up anything. Tom Gores purchased a $120m home in California within the last couple of years. If he really wants his team downtown $34m won't stop him.

**313WX** · June-17-17, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by southen

I doubt this holds up anything. Tom Gores purchased a $120m home in California within the last couple of years. If he really wants his team downtown $34m won't stop him.

He still owns the Palace, a schedule hasn't been established and the NBA hasn't approved the move yet.

So something [[such as this frivolous lawsuit) could still derail the move, at least in the near-term.

Bottom line, my point is I want the Pistons back downtown *NOW* [[after all of the hype about them "coming back home" over the past year), not 1-2 years from now [[if ever) after this lawsuit plays out.

**emu steve** · June-17-17, 10:39 AM

I haven't followed this too closely but understand the general outline.

My question:

If the deal for the bonds for the Pistons gets caught in legal limbo or hell, what happens to the rest of the deal [[the other 300M+ dollars)?

Is only the Pistons' deal subject to 'judicial review'?

**313WX** · June-17-17, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Is only the Pistons' deal subject to 'judicial review'?

Yes.......

**southen** · June-17-17, 05:03 PM

I don't think the NBA would be a deterrent at all. The commissioner was at the press conference announcing this months ago, they are on board. I just see this as a financing issue and whether or not they get the money now or reimbursed after the lawsuit. After all they have invested in this move and the hype why would Gores let something like $30 million in incentives stand in the way of the move? Aren't they leading the league in season ticket sales? It is going to happen.

**emu steve** · June-17-17, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by southen

I don't think the NBA would be a deterrent at all. The commissioner was at the press conference announcing this months ago, they are on board. I just see this as a financing issue and whether or not they get the money now or reimbursed after the lawsuit. After all they have invested in this move and the hype why would Gores let something like $30 million in incentives stand in the way of the move? Aren't they leading the league in season ticket sales? It is going to happen.

Agree.

I read the Freep article and yeah, the NBA could play hardball and threaten to withhold approval but as indicated above we aren't talking astronomical sums of money.

Rescinding the move would be more negatively consequential.

**emu steve** · June-19-17, 09:31 PM

Detnews article.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ing/102994558/

I don't see how this case got filed in U.S. District Court.

It isn't voting/voting rights as typically brought in federal court [[Supreme Court today voted to hear a gerrymandering case from Wisconsin).

I would think the key issue is DDA, tax capture, etc. Apparently DDA has been used for this kind of activity for decades. Did I read DDA is almost 4 decades old???

**Tig3rzhark** · June-19-17, 09:40 PM

Well the judge threw the suit out of federal court tonight.

Nothing can stop the Pistons from coming home to Detroit where it belongs.

I wonder what's going to happen now?

**emu steve** · June-19-17, 09:41 PM

Just saw where the U.S. District judge denied the emergency order.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...uit/408431001/

City common council vote Tuesday?

**Tig3rzhark** · June-19-17, 09:56 PM

I forgot, will this vote actually be open to the public to see? If so....

**emu steve** · June-20-17, 05:29 AM

https://www.scribd.com/document/3517...der#from_embed

"Here, Plaintiffs make no claim of disparate or discriminatory treatment. They were not turned away from the polls based on some invidious classification. Neither free speech nor a federal statute is implicated. Their sole claim is that the state laws regulating how government financing authorization is secured have not been respected. However, simply because one aspect of that authorization process involves voter approval does not transform a disagreement about the operation of such laws into a federal claim for denial of the right to vote. Otherwise, every dispute regarding how later government action was taken following a ballot authorization would justify a federal court lawsuit. The vacuousness of such a position is confirmed by Plaintiffs’ inability to cite a single case that meaningfully supports their position that the fundamental right to vote includes a “right” to have government actors implement the results of a referendum in a particular way."

*****************

Nicely written. Just because the voters approve something at the ballot box doesn't give every voter the right to sue in Federal court claiming violation of voting right because they don't like how that referendum is being carried out or implemented by elected or appointed officials. Cities elect common councils to implement what the voters vote in referendum.

If state voters raise the minimum wage through a ballot initiative or similar it doesn't stand that a voter can go to court, not liking how it is being implemented, and say their right to vote has been disenfranchised or similar because the implementation is contrary to their wishes. The court case is whether or not the implementation is consistent with the referendum.

**emu steve** · June-20-17, 06:02 AM

Interesting Freep editorial.

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/e...oit/409948001/

BTW, I assume that NO monies from taxpayers outside a defined DDA zone is paying for this entire project.

The ones ponying up the money are business owners whose property sits within a defined boundary and also revenues paid to the city by operation of the arena.

Business owners will pay more taxes as values of the properties increase and those incremental monies + generated revenue pay the debt service on the bonds.

So instead of some taxpayer living miles from arena the ones paying the bucks, it will be the Gilberts, Ilitches, GM, etc. anyone with substantial property holdings within the DDA district. Gilbert apparently agreed to tax himself [[Gilbert owns a lot of property there as we all know).

Hell, the property owner of that house on Cass near Temple [[that declined to sell to the Ilitch organization) I saw had an assessed value I believe of 7K. They make no improvements to it and miraculously they list it for 5M bucks.

In D.C., businesses within a business improvement district [[BID) opted to TAX THEMSELVES send those monies to D.C. which took revenue from the ball park [[e.g., ticket tax, etc.) and is paying the bonds off over 30 years. D.C. actually collected more money annually then the required debt service resulting in surplus revenues in the general fund.

**MSUguy** · June-20-17, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

I forgot, will this vote actually be open to the public to see? If so....

Why wouldn't a council meeting be open to the public?

**emu steve** · June-20-17, 06:42 AM

BTW, one more thought on increased values of properties near things like LCA, the Hudson's site, even along QLine, etc.

That is how wealth is 'created' in the U.S. : a business district or neighborhood improves significantly and property owners in that district or neighborhood see market gains in the value of their property.

In Brush Park, City Modern has increased all of the property values near it.

Due to the efforts of Gilbert and others, property owners in the CBD saw the value of their property increase dramatically this decade.

**EGrant** · June-20-17, 06:51 AM

This is why Gores is a billionaire. While a lot of people [[myself included) wished he would just pay the $30 million and move on with it, he probably knew his odds of winning this were good. $30 million might not be a lot to Gores, but it's still $30 million. He'll take all the free money he can get.

**emu steve** · June-20-17, 09:25 AM

Here is what is happening in Atlanta today [[beside the GA-06 special election).

Philips Arena renovation.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball...fuzUtk1kLanBP/

Public dollars: 3/4s. Atlanta Hawks: 1/4. Tax of car rentals, ticket surcharges [[$3). Etc.

**mikeg19** · June-20-17, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by EGrant

This is why Gores is a billionaire. While a lot of people [[myself included) wished he would just pay the $30 million and move on with it, he probably knew his odds of winning this were good. $30 million might not be a lot to Gores, but it's still $30 million. He'll take all the free money he can get.

Honestly, that's what pisses me off about this.We're talking about a guy who is going to stand to profit from all of this immensely, a guy who just spent $100M on a house in LA, and you're telling me you can't give Detroit a break and shell out $35M to get this deal done?

If Gores wanted to build a HUGE amount of goodwill around here and take on a persona other than Absentee Owner, he could have. Instead, he went for the cash, as you mentioned, that he knew he had a good chance of getting.

**emu steve** · June-20-17, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

He still owns the Palace, a schedule hasn't been established and the NBA hasn't approved the move yet.

So something [[such as this frivolous lawsuit) could still derail the move, at least in the near-term.

Bottom line, my point is I want the Pistons back downtown *NOW* [[after all of the hype about them "coming back home" over the past year), not 1-2 years from now [[if ever) after this lawsuit plays out.

You got your wish. Detroit Common Council voted 7 - 2 [[these votes are as predictable as the U.S. Supreme Court) to authorize the bonds.

Two plaintiffs got their names in the media and we get a few more posts and the Pistons' train is pulling into the station...

In a few weeks, everyone signs off and done deal.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ove/103034846/