What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

**emu steve** · August-18-16, 06:01 AM

This story is about what is happening in Phoenix with their baseball stadium. The county is trying to sell it to a private entity. Sounds like they are trying to 'dump' it and not have to make "unneeded" repairs.

Given what is happening in San Diego and Oakland with football stadiums, I'd think cities and counties think things through carefully over stadia and arena.

Wonder if Phoenix will end up losing their baseball team???

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...ks-chase-field

**mikeg19** · August-18-16, 06:20 AM

There was an article out awhile ago on the ballteam demanding that the city, i.e taxpayers, pay for upgrades to the stadium or they would explore moving the team. It sounds like the city council there actually has a backbone because they essentially told them to pound sand and move the team.

**Bham1982** · August-18-16, 07:25 AM

Good for Phoenix. If they lose their baseball team, the city can count its blessings.

Send the burden to another jurisdiction if the billionaire owners don't relent in their taxpayer demands.

**canuck** · August-18-16, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Good for Phoenix. If they lose their baseball team, the city can count its blessings.

Send the burden to another jurisdiction if the billionaire owners don't relent in their taxpayer demands.

Okay, dissolve the team and sell the franchise for what it's worth to aMontreal billionaire. We could use another bout of Stadium building paid for by the people, a sort of Community Chest to grab twenty five guys on a hundred million dollar payroll who couldn't care less about the city they land in. Another stadium, another bunch of dissatisfied customers pretending they enjoy the ten dollar hot-dogs, the stale Molson ale in squishy plastic solo cups. Same old.

**emu steve** · August-18-16, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Good for Phoenix. If they lose their baseball team, the city can count its blessings.

Send the burden to another jurisdiction if the billionaire owners don't relent in their taxpayer demands.

This is why we are having this conversation:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/standings/_/view/wild-card

The DBacks are next to last in the NL.

If they were in the pennant race things would be much, much different...

**emu steve** · August-23-16, 05:19 PM

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...rnoon-20160823

**emu steve** · August-24-16, 05:33 AM

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...rena/89233964/

Wow. 21" seats. 9K lower bowl seats. Compare that to The Joe: 17-18" and 6K.

This will be an arena Detroit can be proud of for decades to come.

And I'll predict we'll see some really great stuff. Would be nice to get the NCAA MBB regionals.

**Atticus** · August-24-16, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...rena/89233964/

Wow. 21" seats. 9K lower bowl seats. Compare that to The Joe: 17-18" and 6K.

This will be an arena Detroit can be proud of for decades to come.

And I'll predict we'll see some really great stuff. Would be nice to get the NCAA MBB regionals.

It will be great for any and all NCAA events they can get. As far as the NCAA MBB tournament, I actually have always thought getting the 2nd/3rd rounds [[first weekend) is actually better than getting the Regional from an economic benefit scenario, as you bring 8 teams and fan bases to town as opposed to 4. More games, more hotel rooms, more spending. Still would be happy with getting either.

**401don** · August-24-16, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...rena/89233964/Wow. 21" seats. 9K lower bowl seats. Compare that to The Joe: 17-18" and 6K.This will be an arena Detroit can be proud of for decades to come.And I'll predict we'll see some really great stuff. Would be nice to get the NCAA MBB regionals.

I'm sure the new arena, like all new arenas, will have some nice amenities. But saying the sightlines will be good for the average fan is ridiculous. With 9,000 lower bowl seats, the season ticket holders will be looked after. The average fan is in the upper bowl. With more and bigger seats in the lower bowl, 2 rows of private boxes and ADA seating the upper bowl will probably start higher than the back row of the Joe.

**1953** · August-24-16, 10:12 AM

Isn't the average fan, by definition, in the middle

Anyways, great sight lines can't replace the dozens of blocks of blight this project created through its planning or compensate for the millions in taxpayer subsidies that EMU Steve's uncle gets to run his enterprise.

1953

**emu steve** · August-24-16, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by 1953

Isn't the average fan, by definition, in the middle

Anyways, great sight lines can't replace the dozens of blocks of blight this project created through its planning or compensate for the millions in taxpayer subsidies that EMU Steve's uncle gets to run his enterprise.

1953

The average fan, roughly 10,000th, will have a very nice seat.

Or if 1,000 fans sit in suites, then the 10,000th [[or whatever 1/2 of the hockey capacity is) might be in the last row of the lower bowl, probably in one of the corners...

I don't want to sit in an "average fans'" seat. I want a suite... Lol.

Truth be told, when I come to Detroit, I'll probably have to pay top dollar on Ticketmaster or however the Wings sell their tickets unless some DY Wings insider can get me one [[hopefully not more than face value...).

**401don** · August-24-16, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

The average fan, roughly 10,000th, will have a very nice seat.Or if 1,000 fans sit in suites, then the 10,000th [[or whatever 1/2 of the hockey capacity is) might be in the last row of the lower bowl, probably in one of the corners...

I don't want to sit in an "average fans'" seat. I want a suite... Lol.Truth be told, when I come to Detroit, I'll probably have to pay top dollar on Ticketmaster or however the Wings sell their tickets unless some DY Wings insider can get me one [[hopefully not more than face value...).

The average fan attends a few games per year. They are the ones that make up the 200,000 fans who will be in the upper bowl, miles away from the action. The lower bowl is mostly the same 9,000 fans every game who have seasons tickets.

**emu steve** · August-24-16, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

The average fan attends a few games per year. They are the ones that make up the 200,000 fans who will be in the upper bowl, miles away from the action. The lower bowl is mostly the same 9,000 fans every game who have seasons tickets.

Without getting into 'statistics 101' and medians, etc.

How many season tickets did the Wings sell in 2015/16?

How many season tickets will they sell in 2017/18?

IF there are 10K season tickets [[in a 20K arena) then the 'average fan' is a still a season ticket holder.

**mikeg19** · August-24-16, 01:52 PM

The Wings don't publish season ticket holder counts, but its' well believed to be just over 15,000.

**emu steve** · August-24-16, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

The Wings don't publish season ticket holder counts, but its' well believed to be just over 15,000.

Okay.

The 'average attendee' is a season ticket holder, then.

I'd guess that in the new arena most or almost all seats will be season tickets.

**mikeg19** · August-25-16, 06:21 AM

Kinda crazy to think that 3/4 of those tickets are spoken for and the general public gets 5K per game. Now I'm sure that between season ticket holders selling off tickets and ticket brokers selling as well, it probably boils down to a 50/50 split of actual season ticket holders and the general public actually in attendance at any game.

**ndavies** · August-25-16, 08:22 AM

And 90% of tickets for UofM football are season tickets. Most successful sports teams have 80% or 90% season ticket holders.

Many season tickets are held by either companies or groups of people who split the tickets. Most tickets never reach the secondary market.

For many years I bought tickets with friends who had season tickets. We had 2 seats split between 4 people. We had a draft day to select the games we wanted to go to.

I work for a small company that buys a Joe Louis suite. Sales gets first priority on the tickets. Departments meetings within the company get second priority. Then the tickets go to the employee rotating pool. All the people in the company have a chance to join the list. When your name comes up you get a day to respond or the tickets go to the next person on the list. I usually go to about 8 games a year through the company. last year was a good year I went to 12 games including 1 playoff game. I should get more invites in the new arena since the boxes hold more people.

**emu steve** · August-25-16, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

And 90% of tickets for UofM football are season tickets. Most successful sports teams have 80% or 90% season ticket holders.

Many season tickets are held by either companies or groups of people who split the tickets. Most tickets never reach the secondary market.

For many years I bought tickets with friends who had season tickets. We had 2 seats split between 4 people. We had a draft day to select the games we wanted to go to.

I work for a small company that buys a Joe Louis suite. Sales gets first priority on the tickets. Departments meetings within the company get second priority. Then the tickets go to the employee rotating pool. All the people in the company have a chance to join the list. When your name comes up you get a day to respond or the tickets go to the next person on the list. I usually go to about 8 games a year through the company. last year was a good year I went to 12 games including 1 playoff game. I should get more invites in the new arena since the boxes hold more people.

This really shows how a sports team can be integral to the life of those in a community, company, etc.

Some folks, often anti-sports people, equate a new sports facility and its team[[s) to something akin a oil refinery.

Take sports away from UofM alums and their 'intimate' connection to the U probably ceases. Would folks drive 50 miles on a Saturday afternoon in September to go to the Hatcher Library? Probably not. Would 100K+ UofM students, alums and fans instead go to the DIA? I don't think so.

Isn't the Super Bowl among the highest rated television shows each year?

**southen** · August-25-16, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

This really shows how a sports team can be integral to the life of those in a community, company, etc.

Some folks, often anti-sports people, equate a new sports facility and its team[[s) to something akin a oil refinery.

Take sports away from UofM alums and their 'intimate' connection to the U probably ceases. Would folks drive 50 miles on a Saturday afternoon in September to go to the Hatcher Library? Probably not. Would 100K+ UofM students, alums and fans instead go to the DIA? I don't think so.

Isn't the Super Bowl among the highest rated television shows each year?

Not sure what your point is, but if it is that we should subsidize these teams because they are so integral you are flat out wrong. I think the examples you lay out are a sad indication of societal priorities vs. something that is positive and should be celebrated.

**emu steve** · August-28-16, 05:59 AM

Latest article. I guess we are what 12 months away.

QLine is what 6 months from completion.

#2017InTheD Should be a great year for that part of the city.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...tour/89494672/

**Enduro** · August-31-16, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

It will be great for any and all NCAA events they can get. As far as the NCAA MBB tournament, I actually have always thought getting the 2nd/3rd rounds [[first weekend) is actually better than getting the Regional from an economic benefit scenario, as you bring 8 teams and fan bases to town as opposed to 4. More games, more hotel rooms, more spending. Still would be happy with getting either.

I worked for the biggest player in the "secondary ticket" industry for a long time and traveled to work these events as part of my job. These early rounds start on weekdays and are rarely full unless you get a powerhouse school in. Think preseason NFL game - just kinda meh but in a smaller venue and two gates per day. The hotels and restaurants may benefit but not like they would from a championship game - most attendees drive in or are locals. The weekend games are a little better but I think the second weekend might be the most bang for your buck from a host city perspective. However, when you get the Final Four you get all the media and hoopla that comes with it. Big spenders come in with no intention of going to the games, big name coaches and alumni make appearances and the whole city comes alive with pop up parties, hanger ons, vendors and various promotional tents.

Been to pretty much everything from Masters to a couple Super Bowls, Final Fours, NBA Finals, NCAA Championships, Big Ten Championships, Big East, etc etc... I'd say the biggest of all the roaming events is obviously the Super Bowl, the NCAA Football Championship game and the Final Four are kind of tied - depending on the teams. The 2013 Championship between Norte Dame and Bama was bigger than many Super Bowls for getting people into the city and spending. There's more tickets available to the general public and more attachment to the teams so people come out who might be put off by the mystique of the SB. That said I hope we get as many events as possible, they're all good for the city.

**Enduro** · August-31-16, 01:29 PM

Oh, and I'd like to point out I hate subsidized stadiums and highly recommend this [[also on Netflix if you prefer) documentary about the plans to undermine the city of Seattle out of them keeping the team and rehabilitating their building in favor of moving to OKC for a new home.

EDIT [[forgot the link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Dp20ydm1E

**Enduro** · August-31-16, 01:36 PM

Where do you get that 90% number? I know most pro teams do not want to go that high, I can't speak to collegiate teams but that number feels really high.

**ndavies** · September-01-16, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Enduro

Where do you get that 90% number? I know most pro teams do not want to go that high, I can't speak to collegiate teams but that number feels really high.

From an article last year it was actually 81% 109,000 seat stadium, 89,000 season tickets.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/inde...n_tickets.html

There was a report on the radio that stated they sold more season tickets this year. [[I can't find that article now.)

**Enduro** · September-01-16, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by ndavies

From an article last year it was actually 81% 109,000 seat stadium, 89,000 season tickets.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/inde...n_tickets.html

There was a report on the radio that stated they sold more season tickets this year. [[I can't find that article now.)

Thanks. I think the scale of the Big House makes a difference as well as the fact they also don't have to accommodate the NCAA for potential playoff games like a pro team would to their league, the networks, and partial season ticket holders [[who all have the option for opening day tickets, playoff priority and the like).