Van Elslander mansion sold for only $3.75 million

[Gpwrangler]

Because a lot of the staff live in the Pointes and they don't want people to understand how much the neighborhood has declined.

Lakeshore has declined? Lmfao.

[DetroitBoy]

Lakeshore has declined? Lmfao.

Well you tell us why a house for sale for $15M went for $3M? That means the property value has declined which means the market says the area is less desirable. Or perhaps you think the house went for cheap because the view isn't good?

[Gistok]

The Elslanders built the largest house in the Pointes in the last 50 years... and there are very few left that could equal it in size. So with most of the neighboring houses only a fraction of the size... no one should be surprised that the price was reduced.

No one is arguing that the Grosse Pointes of today aren't what they were 50 years ago, wealth wise. But I learned long ago that many of the still wealthy folks don't like 15,000 square ft. houses. I know of 2 millionaire's who lived on Tonnacour Pl. in the Farms... their houses are only 3000-4000 square ft. in size. One lady was the descendant of the founder of Champion Spark Plug, the other was a developer of apartment complexes in Michigan, Florida and Arizona [[was 1/2 owner of Muirwoods in Farmington Hills, and previous owner of Buhl Building). Been to both their houses... nothing special.

They, like many of the folks living in that neck of the woods don't require fancy homes or cars... they just like to live comfortably without acting like the Kardashians. Just because they don't show it, doesn't mean that there's not still a lot of monied people living in the Pointes....

[Bham1982]

Well you tell us why a house for sale for $15M went for $3M? That means the property value has declined which means the market says the area is less desirable. Or perhaps you think the house went for cheap because the view isn't good?

Lakeshore Drive hasn't really declined [[maybe somewhat on a relative basis to other areas, but not on an absolute basis), and the property was just absurdly overpriced.

I'm surprised they got over $3 million, I would be very happy at the sales price if I were selling that property.

$15 million, in Michigan of all places, is insanely expensive. You can get really enormous, nice-looking real estate in super-prime Manhattan or London or Beverly Hills at that price. And it won't look like interior decoration from hell.

[DetroitBoy]

Lakeshore Drive hasn't really declined [[maybe somewhat on a relative basis to other areas, but not on an absolute basis), and the property was just absurdly overpriced.

I'm surprised they got over $3 million, I would be very happy at the sales price if I were selling that property.

$15 million, in Michigan of all places, is insanely expensive. You can get really enormous, nice-looking real estate in super-prime Manhattan or London or Beverly Hills at that price. And it won't look like interior decoration from hell.

So what are you saying? Grosse Pointe isn't on a par with Manhattan or London or Beverly Hills?

You're insulting the aristocracy of the Pointes!

[Gpwrangler]

Well you tell us why a house for sale for $15M went for $3M? That means the property value has declined which means the market says the area is less desirable. Or perhaps you think the house went for cheap because the view isn't good?

$3 million is not cheap. The new owners probably like it just fine, just like the rest of us you say "left years ago". You're not getting anywhere trashing someplace you [[your parents?) moved away from years ago. You obviously know nothing about this place.

[MAcc]

Gee.... I guess that the 2 late billionaires [[both of whom died in 2014) William Clay Ford Sr. and Ralph Wilson who were neighbors a couple of houses down on either side of the Van Elslander estate... must not have gotten DetroitBoy and Bham1982's memo that this area was Ghettoville. Funny that.....

With all due respect, if you're going to name drop, I recommend dropping better names than two dead 80 year olds, who lived in Gilded Age fortresses on the water. Hardly a representation of the overall health or wealth of the Pointes. Further, interesting that Clay Jr. chooses to call Ann Arbor home. In my eye, it appears most of the real wealth is living in recluse in their Gilded Age mansions while they die. The kids and grandkids have fled for Bloomfield Hills or more than likely out of state.

I find the Pointes charming, but the Detroit creep truly terrifies me. That said, there are tony Chicago neighborhoods [[Hyde Park, for example) that buddy up to Chicago slums, so I actually think Grosse Pointe could hold on. But the biggest issue is the Chicago PD are legit and will crack heads, and Detroit PD are completely worthless.

[DetroitBoy]

With all due respect, if you're going to name drop, I recommend dropping better names than two dead 80 year olds, who lived in Gilded Age fortresses on the water. Hardly a representation of the overall health or wealth of the Pointes. Further, interesting that Clay Jr. chooses to call Ann Arbor home. In my eye, it appears most of the real wealth is living in recluse in their Gilded Age mansions while they die. The kids and grandkids have fled for Bloomfield Hills or more than likely out of state.

That's right, baby. They sure did. BTW there are 45 homes listed for $2.5M or more in just Bloomfield Hills and W Bloomfield alone not counting everything to the west. Some people need to get a map and visit the place where real affluent people live today in the area. And it isn't ghetto or ghetto adjacent either.

[MAcc]

Everyone knows if the same home were in Northville it would have 2x the value and if in Bloomfield/Bham/Franklin it would have 3x the value.

Sorry to call you out, but perusing zillow shows this is a gross exaggeration. I found less than five tacky Oakland County monsters from the past couple of years that closed north of $3M. I'm not so sure this house sells for any more than $4M if it was on Orchard Lake or next to Bob Seger on Upper Straits.

[Bham1982]

Sorry to call you out, but perusing zillow shows this is a gross exaggeration. I found less than five tacky Oakland County monsters from the past couple of years that closed north of $3M. I'm not so sure this house sells for any more than $4M if it was on Orchard Lake or next to Bob Seger on Upper Straits.

And these were all 15,000 square feet homes on waterfront? Source, please?

GP, compared to prime parts of Oakland County, is much cheaper. It isn't close.

And Orchard Lake/Upper Straits are hardly the most expensive parts of the county. On a per square foot basis, they aren't close to the top.

Somewhere like Quarton Lake area, or Bloomfield Village, you pay $1 million for a typical 60's colonial, you pay $2 million for a larger, upgraded mini-mansion, and you pay $3 million+ for anything really nice. Those values, on a per square foot basis, are probably close to 3 times what you pay in the Pointes.

[Towne Cluber]

Bham82, your numbers are dated. Typical 1960s colonials in Bloomfield Village are more in the $500k-$600k range. BV average is in the $800k range. The "good stuff" is in the $1.5m to $3m range. It's still one of the best areas in Metro Detroit.

[Bham1982]

Bham82, your numbers are dated. Typical 1960s colonials in Bloomfield Village are more in the $500k-$600k range. BV average is in the $800k range. The "good stuff" is in the $1.5m to $3m range. It's still one of the best areas in Metro Detroit.

These numbers weren't even accurate at the depths of the recession.

Dated 3,000 square foot 1960's colonials are $1 million in BV. You cannot get at 800-900k, to say nothing of 500k. A relative of mine recently purchased in BV, and it was a dated colonial, sale price around $1 million [[I will PM you the address if you prefer).

The big homes, closer to Quarton Rd, go $2 million and up. Note that there are no huge homes in BV, obviously nothing will be apples-to-apples comparison to the Art Van house; home sizes don't go beyond 5-6 thousand ft. or so.

And prices are slightly higher across the Birmingham line, moving closer to Quarton Lake. I would wager Quarton Lake [[which is just a nothing pond) has the highest per square foot prices in the state.

[Towne Cluber]

Bham82, I know of two people who just sold in BV, one for right at $500k and one slightly above that mark. I know of a third person that just bought there for well under $1m, not to mention several others that bought during the recession for well under $1m. I just checked some real estate sites that confirmed my numbers. At the depths of the recessions those numbers were lower. This isn't the 1990s anymore.

[mwilbert]

Perhaps the market for grotesque oversized houses is stronger in Oakland County.

Seriously, that house was built to one person's rather eccentric tastes. There was never any reason to think it would sell for anything like what it cost. I have the same problem with my own country house [[on a much smaller scale, thank goodness)--my wife and I renovated it at excessive expense to our own taste, which is much better than Van Elslander's, but we knew we could never get the money back out of it, because it is quite small, and any normal person spending that much money on a house wants a bigger house. The next owner will probably tear it down, unless maybe they keep it as a guest house or we give it to our daughter. We didn't care; we could afford it. So could Van Elslander.

[Bham1982]

Bham82, I know of two people who just sold in BV, one for right at $500k and one slightly above that mark. I know of a third person that just bought there for well under $1m, not to mention several others that bought during the recession for well under $1m. I just checked some real estate sites that confirmed my numbers. At the depths of the recessions those numbers were lower. This isn't the 1990s anymore.

I will PM you the sale. This is a dated house, typical colonial, nothing special, $ 1 million.

Even the less desirable Bham neighborhoods have nothing family-sized at 500k. Poppleton Park is much cheaper and there's nothing available at 3,000 sq. ft. for less than 800k. Neighborhoods west of Woodward cost more than Poppleton.

[MAcc]

And these were all 15,000 square feet homes on waterfront? Source, please?

GP, compared to prime parts of Oakland County, is much cheaper. It isn't close.

And Orchard Lake/Upper Straits are hardly the most expensive parts of the county. On a per square foot basis, they aren't close to the top.

Somewhere like Quarton Lake area, or Bloomfield Village, you pay $1 million for a typical 60's colonial, you pay $2 million for a larger, upgraded mini-mansion, and you pay $3 million+ for anything really nice. Those values, on a per square foot basis, are probably close to 3 times what you pay in the Pointes.

There's a hell of a lot in the $800k-$2M range, no doubt. But the mega mansions are probably deemed more of a tacky hassle than anything. I mean you think Alon Kaufman can find someone to pay $10M for his monster some day? Unlikely. I recall a Novi mega mansion and a place on Vaughan in BH that sat on the market forever -- I think both sold for $2M to $3M. I think your numbers are 10 years removed from reality. Birmingham is still very healthy though, for sure. Probably the safest bet in Metro Detroit residential.

[Goose]

1. It may be likely that the property was purchased for location only, and may be a tear down an rebuild, only shows the actual divide between reality and money for the super wealthy... think of it, if you make 100K, which is a very good income, and you go out to eat and spend $500, to a guy that makes $1 milliion, thats a $50 meal to him... a guy that makes 10 million can drop a 500 bucks out his pocket and it like the average guy losing a $5..........

2. smart money is leaving GP, other than those that have 2-3 other residences... if you have means for a decent lifestyle GP is not a good bet....... look at the number of 500K plus houses on the market, seems like a bargain until your ULS kid gets shot in the D

[Bham1982]

There's a hell of a lot in the $800k-$2M range, no doubt. But the mega mansions are probably deemed more of a tacky hassle than anything. I looked on zillow and realtor and couldn't this amazing supply of $3M+ mega mansions sold recently. I think your numbers are 10 years removed from reality. Birmingham is still very healthy though, for sure. Probably the safest bet in real estate in Metro Detroit.

My point is apples-to-apples. You're right there won't be many comparables because there aren't many 15,000 square foot homes. But if you do the apples-to-apples comparison there is a significant price difference based on location.

If you say "what can I get for 500k", "at 1 million", "at 2 million" in Bloomfield Village or Birmingham and compare to what you get at equivalent price in the Pointes you will see an enormous difference in type of home. At a minimum we're talking 2x the price for equivalent.

I don't think, historically, there was always such a gap.

[MAcc]

2. smart money is leaving GP, other than those that have 2-3 other residences... if you have means for a decent lifestyle GP is not a good bet....... look at the number of 500K plus houses on the market, seems like a bargain until your ULS kid gets shot in the D

I have a lot of friends that grew up in the Pointes and were not friends with nor would they ever associate or so much as acknowledge the caliber of characters these girls were riding around Detroit with. Untouchables vs. aristocrats. They're proper, ambitious and only associate with private school kids. I think there are two Grosse Pointes. Just as there are two Birminghams. I believe Bloomfield Hills is about the only zip code you can't infiltrate without $300k for a house. The girls smoking weed in Detroit live in crappy $150k homes a few blocks from Detroit.

[Gistok]

With all due respect, if you're going to name drop, I recommend dropping better names than two dead 80 year olds, who lived in Gilded Age fortresses on the water. Hardly a representation of the overall health or wealth of the Pointes. Further, interesting that Clay Jr. chooses to call Ann Arbor home. In my eye, it appears most of the real wealth is living in recluse in their Gilded Age mansions while they die. The kids and grandkids have fled for Bloomfield Hills or more than likely out of state.

I find the Pointes charming, but the Detroit creep truly terrifies me. That said, there are tony Chicago neighborhoods [[Hyde Park, for example) that buddy up to Chicago slums, so I actually think Grosse Pointe could hold on. But the biggest issue is the Chicago PD are legit and will crack heads, and Detroit PD are completely worthless.

I wasn't talking about the general Pointes... everyone knows that large areas of them are middle class, such as the Woods. I'm pointing out that there still are a lot of monied people living there. And yes... William Clay Ford Jr. lives near Ann Arbor... but most of the rest of the Buhl Fords and Brush Fords still live in the Pointes. In fact one of them ripped down Dodie Fords house in the Farms [[the one with the 5 million dollar weather vane)... and built a new house in its' place.

Also, one would hardly call Ralph Wilson's modern rambling ranch house on Lakeshore a Gilded Age Fortress...

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Because the News and Freep [[whether knowingly or they're just idiots) has no idea of anything related to market values and locational preferences in the region. Everyone knows if the same home were in Northville it would have 2x the value and if in Bloomfield/Bham/Franklin it would have 3x the value.

If you blindly red the News and Freep you would think all the rich people still live in the Pointes, Hamtramck is still Polish, 7 Mile is still Chaldean, the Jews live in Southfield, downtown/midtown are boomtowns, gentification is a major threat in Detroit, sprawl is some new phenomenon, and other assorted nonsense.

I assume they aren't that stupid, they just have an agenda that blends nostalgia for past times with wildly exaggerated claims about present trends..

Bham82, I gotta hand it to ya that was one helluva precision verbal airstrike about the local rag pundants you laid out there. Kudos my brutha

[MAcc]

Bham and DetroitBoy have laid down some hot takes this week, for sure.

[Goose]

The girls smoking weed in Detroit live in crappy $150k homes a few blocks from Detroit.

wow, cant believe the squalor of a crappy 150K GP home.....

anyway, I have a kid a monteith, he's got friends in GPS that have what you might describe as mansions, 5000 sq ft ,inground pools, all the fun shit..... and there are others in modest bungalows of 1200 sq. ft.... all mixiing well.....

anyway, we live in a crappy 150K gpw house..... have to constantly remind the spoiled kids how lucky they are.... its all perspective

[Gpwrangler]

wow, cant believe the squalor of a crappy 150K GP home.....

anyway, I have a kid a monteith, he's got friends in GPS that have what you might describe as mansions, 5000 sq ft ,inground pools, all the fun shit..... and there are others in modest bungalows of 1200 sq. ft.... all mixiing well.....

anyway, we live in a crappy 150K gpw house..... have to constantly remind the spoiled kids how lucky they are.... its all perspective

I live in a "crappy" house too. I feel fortunate to have it. Have friends all the way to the lakeshore and we all get along just fine. By the way, so do my friends and family in Detroit. Most of the shit and divisiveness seems confined to this forum [[a lot of the after midnight posts are especially sick)

People on here hate to see Detroit trashed but feel perfectly fine throwing rocks at GP. I turn on the news every morning and am thankful for where I live.

[Towne Cluber]

MAcc, the home on Vaughan in BH sold for $4m, but was asking $15m. The Novi place was estimated [[supposedly) to cost between $18-25m but was asking $5.5m at last check.

Bham82, I'm not doubting your one story [[especially since you sent a PM), however, it seems that you're basing your stance on a sample size of one along with outdated beliefs. I would also note that the area that you speak of is closer to Indian Mound, which more expensive than the rest of Bloomfield Village. Also, Birmingham's Quarton Lake area isn't the most expensive in the area/state. Try Rathmor Road and Martell Drive in BH.