North Park Plaza demolition in Southfield

[Bham1982]

Is this still the same rumor from a few years back, or is this really being planned? So there'd be a bridge through Nordstrom, across Coolidge? Sounds incredibly futile.

Not a rumor. Forbes Cos. bought it a few years ago, and still plans a retail development.

Sounds like a gold mine to me. Somerset is 100% leased, and has a waiting list of tenants. They could easily lease another 500k of retail.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

It's L Brooks's fault for aging [[i.e. cheap/declining) residential and commercial, Detroit being more or less inhabitable for families, leading to the deluge of subsidized housing vouchers used in Southfield, Clawson and south Troy? Oh, O.K.

Presumably you meant "Is it" instead of "It's" L. Brooks' fault....

What is his fault is his never ending obsession with plowing up farmland and pushing sprawl further out.

[MAcc]

Presumably you meant "Is it" instead of "It's" L. Brooks' fault....

What is his fault is his never ending obsession with plowing up farmland and pushing sprawl further out.

The market demands new homes, away from the crime cancer, which has taken over the inner-ring burbs.

[Bham1982]

What is his fault is his never ending obsession with plowing up farmland and pushing sprawl further out.

Townships are responsible for land use planning. The county plays almost no role in either encouraging or discouraging sprawl.

And townships want new housing because it adds to the tax base, and there's high demand for housing on the suburban fringe. You can't plop a new subdivision in an older suburb.

[Scottathew]

You can't plop a new subdivision in an older suburb.

Except for a few rare opportunities. A while back GM gave up a half-square mile adjacent to the tech center in Warren. It's on Mound between 12 and 13. There's now a Meijer, and other commercial stuff there.

They tried developing the north part of the property into houses and condos, and it failed. I couldn't imagine being a person who bought a house and now live in a ghost town, instead of a thriving suburbs.

Slowly houses have started filling in, but houses are going up MUCH faster in Troy and Rochester Hills.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.5...16512&t=h&z=17

[animatedmartian]

Aren't there also new homes being developed in Royal Oak as well? Not quite new subdivisions, but there's been plenty of new SFH.

[mtburb]

Aren't there also new homes being developed in Royal Oak as well? Not quite new subdivisions, but there's been plenty of new SFH.

I've actually seen new homes being built in existing Wyandotte subdivisions within the past couple years as well.

[milt721]

Ground level view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MVybptzCM

[Bham1982]

Aren't there also new homes being developed in Royal Oak as well? Not quite new subdivisions, but there's been plenty of new SFH.

Well yeah, there's infill in most healthy communities. But not really subdivisions. And the infill, at least in the older communities, isn't competing with new subdivisions. It's still the same smaller lots, so you generally can't get attached garages [[and certainly not side-facing), you can't really build the generally preferred center-hall layout.

[gazhekwe]

That crime has taken over the inner ring suburbs is completely false. It is one of those blockbusting tactics you used to hear back in the day, "they are across Livernois [[better sell now). With research you will find that many inner ring cities have great police and crime rate is not worse than far out spots that are more fashionable. Crime does not discriminate.

[Scottathew]

That crime has taken over the inner ring suburbs is completely false. It is one of those blockbusting tactics you used to hear back in the day, "they are across Livernois [[better sell now). With research you will find that many inner ring cities have great police and crime rate is not worse than far out spots that are more fashionable. Crime does not discriminate.

I used to live in the south-end of Warren and I agree with your statement. I generally felt safe in Warren. Police were responsive most of the time. My neighborhood was a diverse-mix of people all working their butts off to put food on the table and rent\mortgage checks in the mail.

[MAcc]

That crime has taken over the inner ring suburbs is completely false. It is one of those blockbusting tactics you used to hear back in the day, "they are across Livernois [[better sell now). With research you will find that many inner ring cities have great police and crime rate is not worse than far out spots that are more fashionable. Crime does not discriminate.

Oh, O.K. Why don't you go use your life savings as collateral to go buy up a haul of Southfield residential. I'm sure the town and schools are going to bounce back real soon.

[Scottathew]

Oh, O.K. Why don't you go use your life savings as collateral to go buy up a haul of Southfield residential. I'm sure the town and schools are going to bounce real soon.

Because if you don't go and take your life-savings into real-estate then surely you must be wrong!

[Bham1982]

That crime has taken over the inner ring suburbs is completely false.

Not true. Crime rates, generally speaking, are correlated with proximity to Detroit. Much of the decline in some inner ring burbs is related to increasing crime and disorder. Even inner ring burbs considered somewhat healthy or revitalizing [[say Ferndale) have elevated crime rates.

And the lower crime cities close to Detroit tend to be wealthy cities with pretty massive police presences. Places like the Pointes or Huntington Woods don't mess around.

[Scottathew]

Not true. Crime rates, generally speaking, are correlated with proximity to Detroit. Much of the decline in some inner ring burbs is related to increasing crime and disorder. Even inner ring burbs considered somewhat healthy or revitalizing [[say Ferndale) have elevated crime rates.

And the lower crime cities close to Detroit tend to be wealthy cities with pretty massive police presences. Places like the Pointes or Huntington Woods don't mess around.

"taken over" does not equal "elevated"

Crime certainly is elevated in Warren compared to Rochester Hills. However, both cities are very safe in comparison to Detroit and other areas where crime, including violent crime is prevalent.

Many inner-ring suburbs have very good police response times, which helps to keep crime in check. Elevated compared to affluent areas, but "taken over", I don't think so.

[MAcc]

Outside of commercial, Southfield has been sketchy for what, 20 years. The property values are worthless and I'd never send my kids to their schools. Southfield in the 60s and 70s was an affluent suburb. It has most certainly been "taken over." Is it Detroit? No. Stop being hyper-literal.

[gameguy56]

Outside of commercial, Southfield has been sketchy for what, 20 years. The property values are worthless and I'd never send my kids to their schools. Southfield in the 60s and 70s was an affluent suburb. It has most certainly been "taken over." Is it Detroit? No. Stop being hyper-literal.

"Hyper-literal"? How about you stop being a blatant racist. Crime in Southfield has been going down for at least the past decade.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Michigan.html

[Bham1982]

Southfield has much higher-than-average crime, bad schools, sky high property taxes, low home values, and limited nicer retail and restaurants. It isn't "racist" to point this out.

Obviously it's no slum; it's still rather middle class in outlook, and not really a bad place to live, but nor is it really a desirable place to live [[and this is true for African Americans too; note the skyrocketing black population in Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, Novi, Walled Lake, etc.).

[Scottathew]

"Hyper-literal"? How about you stop being a blatant racist. Crime in Southfield has been going down for at least the past decade.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Michigan.html

Whoa, whoa. Don't let facts enter this conversation! Let's instead argue that Southfield et al. are crime-ridden shit-holes, and then when someone calls us out on it we'll tell them to stop being "hyper-literal".

After all, they're just words, who cares about the connotations, and hell, even the denotations behind the words. Just sprinkle some adjectives around to help make my point.

[MAcc]

"Hyper-literal"? How about you stop being a blatant racist. Crime in Southfield has been going down for at least the past decade.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...-Michigan.html

How vulgar and uncouth.

The decline in crime is noted. I am sure Birmingham and Franklin home owners are especially appreciative of the Southfield PD's efforts. But over a decade of 400-500 crime index is too little, too late for Southfield. Further, the current 300+ index is still higher than the US average. Birmingham, Franklin and Troy have crime indexes in the low 100s. I also stand by my previous post where I characterized Southfield as a place that has been inflicted with the crime cancer. The link above is a testament to that fact. I will not apologize for facts that make you uncomfortable. Nor will I participate in your smoke and mirrors echo chamber where we pretend things aren't so bad in Southfield, Detroit, etc.

[MAcc]

Southfield has much higher-than-average crime, bad schools, sky high property taxes, low home values, and limited nicer retail and restaurants. It isn't "racist" to point this out.

Obviously it's no slum.

Depends on what prism you're looking at it through. It is absolutely a slum if you grew up in Birmingham, Bloomfield, Rochester, Novi, etc. Hell, the south side of Birmingham is a slum to those in the really tony Birmingham nabes. Then again, if you're in Detroit, a Southfield foreclosure represents social mobility.

[Islandman]

How vulgar and uncouth.

The decline in crime is noted. I am sure Birmingham and Franklin home owners are especially appreciative of the Southfield PD's efforts. But over a decade of 400-500 crime index is too little, too late for Southfield. Further, the current 300+ index is still higher than the US average. Birmingham, Franklin and Troy have crime indexes in the low 100s. I also stand by my previous post where I characterized Southfield as a place that has been inflicted with the crime cancer. The link above is a testament to that fact. I will not apologize for facts that make you uncomfortable. Nor will I participate in this smoke and mirrors echo chamber here where we pretend things aren't so bad in Southfield, Detroit, etc.

So who is it that is trying to pretend that things aren't bad in Detroit and surrounding communities? Who is is this ignorant, unwashed mob you are so valiantly defending us from with your ivory bastion of truth?

You did notice the name of this site, yes? Do you think that regular posters on this site are familiar with the negative and positives of this community? You have made it pretty clear in your 20 posts what your agenda and perspective is; quite transparent really.

[MAcc]

So who is it that is trying to pretend that things aren't bad in Detroit and surrounding communities? Who is is this ignorant, unwashed mob you are so valiantly defending us from with your ivory bastion of truth?

You did notice the name of this site, yes? Do you think that regular posters on this site are familiar with the negative and positives of this community? You have made it pretty clear in your 20 posts what your agenda and perspective is; quite transparent really.

Those who look for things to offend them will seldom be disappointed. Sounds like I've satisfied your daily quest for micro-aggressions.

I love Detroit. That's why I'm here. Warm regards.

[Islandman]

Do my rhetorical questions sound like I'm offended or slightly entertained? I can't get offended and angry at the usual diatribe that is echoed from many of your ilk; not enough time in the day. But do carry on and enlighten us on the plight of Detroit, and the takeover of the inner ring suburbs by "cancerous criminals".

Good to know you are bravely holding the line at whatever outer ring suburb you hail from.

[Bill Simpson]

If you look closely on the lower left, you can see where it hits the People Mover. I hope they can get it running soon.