Little Caesars to Build 8 Story Downtown HQ

**mtburb** · December-10-14, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

They did.

https://www.facebook.com/M1RAIL/phot...5947508530858/

There's 6 pillars there. The original bridge had only 5 supporting it.

There was 8 actually-3 for the northbound lanes, then 2 for the left-turn lane and finally 3 for the southbound lanes. These are from a Google Street View image taken two months ago, right when the southbound side was about to be demolished.

**SpartanDawg** · December-11-14, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by mtburb

There was 8 actually-3 for the northbound lanes, then 2 for the left-turn lane and finally 3 for the southbound lanes. These are from a Google Street View image taken two months ago, right when the southbound side was about to be demolished.

so wait if there's 6 being added currently, and half the bridge is still up. wouldn't that bring the total up to around 10? up from 8?

not sure how many are still currently up i'm just guessing.

**rex** · December-10-14, 09:46 PM

I hear they plan to call it the Ron Illich building

**Hypestyles** · December-10-14, 10:17 PM

Detroit needs its own Times Square. More companies need to move downtown and elsewhere in the city, east and west.

**Chicago48** · December-11-14, 07:19 AM

They're moving from the Fox to a new building. I don't see what the controversy is all about. They're already downtown.

**mikeg19** · December-11-14, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Chicago48

They're moving from the Fox to a new building. I don't see what the controversy is all about. They're already downtown.

They're also consolidating operations from other areas as well. I believe Farmington and a couple other places were mentioned, plus they are going to add people as well.

Great news overall, but I think we are all collectively waiting for the announcements on other major buildings in the "entertainment district" [[United Artists, Life Building, Fine Arts Facade).

**Mackinaw** · December-11-14, 11:22 AM

Exactly what Mikeg19 said.

It's great news. There's concern-- a better word than controversy-- re the overall development of the area: will Olympia fulfill its promises, and will they tear down more buildings in doing so?

The only "controversy" with this recent news is whether they are gonna put Little Caeser's signs on the Fox Theatre. While I think that's a scary prospect, I doubt they actually intend it.

**birwood** · December-11-14, 12:27 PM

With the Illiches and Gilbert sinking a bunch of dough and creating all the interest in rebuilding the downtown area to attract new residents and visitors, I have yet to see any interest toward public safety. There once was 7 firehouses with 12 active in service fire companies and not to forget the EMS units that used to serve the downtown & near downtown areas. Now there is one with a single engine company at Park & Montcalm. Take a good look at whats been built or revamped and whats going to be built. Given the shortage of daily manning and fire company brown outs, where will the needed responders be coming from should a normally busy day or major incident occur else where in the city simultaneously causing a shortage of units to respond….Just Curious and Just Wondering where the priorities lay

**animatedmartian** · December-11-14, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by birwood

With the Illiches and Gilbert sinking a bunch of dough and creating all the interest in rebuilding the downtown area to attract new residents and visitors, I have yet to see any interest toward public safety. There once was 7 firehouses with 12 active in service fire companies and not to forget the EMS units that used to serve the downtown & near downtown areas. Now there is one with a single engine company at Park & Montcalm. Take a good look at whats been built or revamped and whats going to be built. Given the shortage of daily manning and fire company brown outs, where will the needed responders be coming from should a normally busy day or major incident occur else where in the city simultaneously causing a shortage of units to respond….Just Curious and Just Wondering where the priorities lay

For one, it's not the private sector to prioritize public service. That's an entirely different discussion and thread.

**downtownguy** · December-11-14, 01:04 PM

Considering how much I can find to dislike about the Ilitch's, I'm actually a bit excited about this. I like the design, too.

But the pattern of all their past developments still leaves me skeptical. Back when the Fox was restored and Little Caesar's moved some of their employees downtown, a senior official spoke of interest by some of their employees in living downtown. They talked of turning the Detroit Life Building into apartments. Here it is, almost 27 years later, and well...

I used to like John Gallagher's writing, but where's the journalism? Specifically, there's no mention of public subsidies. How did that question not get asked?

**Eber Brock Ward** · December-11-14, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Considering how much I can find to dislike about the Ilitch's, I'm actually a bit excited about this. I like the design, too.

I'm in a similar boat, but I think this is more of a play to get what they want with the Eddystone/Park Ave hotels. If this moves the needle even 1% with Council on that issue, shame on them.

**Mackinaw** · December-11-14, 01:41 PM

Downtownguy, my theory is that Gallagher now writes in a generally promotional tone, and in exchange he gets a lot of exclusive scoops-- i.e. yesterday. Occasionally he breaks this mold with a more serious analytical piece.

Anyway, what question about public subsidies needs to be answered? Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do. Obviously, we should hope for more and the council should have insisted on more.

Here's a question that needs answering: how does the lovely Blenheim building factor in here? Will it be spared?

**mikeg19** · December-12-14, 07:17 AM

[QUOTE=Mackinaw;462145]Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do.QUOTE]

THAT building is going to cost $70 million? Are the insides going to be covered in 24k gold???? Meridian was going to build their new headquarters at $111 million and it was almost double the size.

**Jason** · December-11-14, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

I used to like John Gallagher's writing, but where's the journalism? Specifically, there's no mention of public subsidies. How did that question not get asked?

Supposedly John Gallagher is an architecture critic, but in reality his job is regurgitating "building-y" press releases.

But both of those eras gloried in architectural experimentation, which captures something of what the Ilitch family hopes to stress with its new headquarters -- a zest for innovation and energy that will propel forward both a company and its host city.

That design would have been innovative and energetic in the 70s, except those ideas back then were the result of intellectual developments, and not fuddy duddy obliviousness.

The family's architectural choices may delight some and infuriate others, but those choices are never dull. And fortunately the Ilitches avoided what may have seemed the easy choice -- a mere repetition or mimicking of what Crane did on the adjacent Fox building nearly a century ago.

And now that design is the most safe and easy choice possible. "Historical chunk" + "shiny chunk" = "true to its history, reimagines itself for the future" every time. When the historical chunk isn't copying a particular building it's just a generic historical chunk that is either respectful of "context" or "tradition". It's not like there's some controversial design theories being applied here, the infuriating part is that this is the dullest most formulaic corporate architecture possible. Is "But the Ilitch family's architecture ... has been marked by an energetic, even exuberant embrace of design as entertainment." code for "their tourist trap marketing team tells the architects what to do"?

If John Gallagher didn't want to do any criticism himself he could at least inform readers of what criticisms other people may have. Or at the very least don't mischaracterise or miscontextualize things.

As far as the design itself [[rather than the design attitude) I'd like to know more about the decision to set the building back.

I also wonder if this is even for real or if it's just the last PR stunt to get people to not mind their demolition plans. If this is real it would have been in the works for a while, and it would have been something concrete and credible they could have added to their over the top arena district announcements/hussling. If they really are expanding and consolidating their HQ that'd be great though, and that lot has been crying for a building for a while now.

**Jason** · December-11-14, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Anyway, what question about public subsidies needs to be answered? Some of the papers said that this is all private money for this development. Well sure, but it counts towards the $200M investment that Olympia must make to enjoy the lavish subsidies that are already on the table. So I guess it all factors in to their plum situation. Crain's, I believe, estimated that this could cost $70 million, so the Illitches are almost halfway home in terms of what they NEED to do. Obviously, we should hope for more and the council should have insisted on more.

This is a good point. I wonder if this is something they were planning on doing anyway, and they waited to officially do it until after the arena stuff was settled, so that it could count towards their investment totals.

Here's a question that needs answering: how does the lovely Blenheim building factor in here? Will it be spared?

"A Columbia Street neighborhood to be activated with retail and green space" so I'm guessing the building will be the site of some cutting edge "green space" [[grass) which will "activate" the "neighborhood" [[parking lots and abandoned buildings).

**Lombaowski** · December-12-14, 11:49 PM

Awesome. /thread

**ekleezy** · June-22-16, 06:08 AM

New update. Supposedly starting construction this summer. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...oreUserAgent=1

**Scottathew** · June-22-16, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by ekleezy

New update. Supposedly starting construction this summer. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...oreUserAgent=1

I'll believe it when I see it. Ilitch has no credibility for projects that are not subsidized.

**esp1986** · June-22-16, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

I'll believe it when I see it. Ilitch has no credibility for projects that are not subsidized.

Technically it IS subsidized... If the Ilitches spend $200M in the "district," the city will give them $70M over 30 years. Between this building [[$70M), and the parking garage on Montcalm currently being built [[+/- $20M) they are almost halfway there. The infuriating part, is they had plans to renovate buildings for Little Sleazers years ago, but obviously they waited until they got public funds to do so. It was all just overshadowed by the money doled out for the arena.

This link has the cost estimate:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...esign-unveiled

The estimate for the garage I learned from a contractor that bid the job.

**emu steve** · June-22-16, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Technically it IS subsidized... If the Ilitches spend $200M in the "district," the city will give them $70M over 30 years. Between this building [[$70M), and the parking garage on Montcalm currently being built [[+/- $20M) they are almost halfway there. The infuriating part, is they had plans to renovate buildings for Little Sleazers years ago, but obviously they waited until they got public funds to do so. It was all just overshadowed by the money doled out for the arena.

This link has the cost estimate:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...esign-unveiled

The estimate for the garage I learned from a contractor that bid the job.

Whatever...

One can get into a discourse like St. Paul's on the body [[eye, foot, etc.) but the bottom line for the new arena effort is that it is a total project [[totality) consisting of a number of known [[planned) buildings and probably buildings not yet planned.

So it kind of hard to say that of the 70M so much [[dollars or percentage) is because of a single building or buildings when this project as known today is what 10 - 12 buildings including residential, parking garages, office buildings, etc.

It is STILL my belief that the Ilitches plan to spend many hundreds of millions doing many buildings in the decade to come.

The whole district area west of Woodward will probably evolve in ways we have no idea today. Some one will say I'm going to re-purpose 640 Temple. Someone else says I will re-purpose a building at nnn 2nd street or 3rd street or Ledyard or whatever...

**downtownguy** · June-22-16, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Whatever...

Typical pie in the sky defense by emu steve of anything Ilitch touches or proposes [[the proposed, yet unfinished list is a lot longer).

**dtowncitylover** · June-22-16, 07:27 AM

I don't hate it. The pizza shapes, while a bit gimmicky, aren't that bad and actually pretty subtle. If this building was not for the LC HQ I wouldn't think of it as pizza slices, just very sleek triangles. Not shabby at all.

**hybridy** · June-22-16, 08:35 AM

this design is really refreshing for detroit. im not sure how one cleans a triangular curtianwall system, but it will have some really great reflectivity. a new city 'jewel' perhaps...lol

**Wesley Mouch** · June-22-16, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by hybridy

this design is really refreshing for detroit. im not sure how one cleans a triangular curtianwall system, but it will have some really great reflectivity. a new city 'jewel' perhaps...lol

You clean it just like any other curtainwall. Hang. Clean.

Getting into the corner of a triangle with a squeege [[or whatever) is a likely a little more difficult than a square. Many buildings have odd-shaped windows.

The reflectivity patterns should be fun.

Not sure what I think of the design. Depends on execution, I suppose. The courtyard between the buildings is the most interesting part to me. That's where the people will mostly engage this new building and the existing Fox Building.

The other detail to watch will be the 'tube' between the buildings. In the renderings its pretty plain. I'm guessing they haven't yet decided how to handle that detail. Its a tough one. Plain is probably best. I think I'd vote for all-glass, but of different character, so it doesn't look too much like its a mosquito snout.

**Gistok** · June-22-16, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

this design is really refreshing for detroit. im not sure how one cleans a triangular curtianwall system, but it will have some really great reflectivity. a new city 'jewel' perhaps...lol

I curious on how you would define"refreshing" for the average visitor? Something that will be noticed? Or something that merely reflects the details of the neighboring buildings?

I liked the old design better [[with a touch of what the architecture community deridingly calls "pastishe")... and people walking by along Woodward would have said "hey Joe... check that out how that mixes old and new".... With what is planned now... the building will stay splendidly in the background.

Also... for those folks who say.... "everywhere else is doing this... so we should be too".... To that I say "Really?? We want Detroit to look like everywhere else?? If that is the case, then we really do have a lot of catching up to do... so we don't have to look at so much of all that old stuff any more!"

The Fox Theatre is the heart of Detroit's entertainment district. People come downtown this district often to escape [[even for a while) the blandness of suburbia... do we want to make this district look like Northwestern Hwy or Big Beaver Rd.? Does everything have to be either modernism or considered Disneyesque? Is there no happy middleground that can please the public that gets away from both the carport top AND the modern "gingerbread"?

I'm not deriding modernism versus the good old days.... but there has to be something else available. Something that will make people say.... "wow that's different... AND cool!".

But I'm not sure architecture schools today are going anywhere near that direction....