Today's Action In Campus Martius [Ferguson/Eric Garner Protest]

[Gpwrangler]

I don't get the point of having all the protests downtown. If you want maximum visibility and reach, the protests should be in the 'burbs. Royal Oak or Birmingham on a Friday night. Big Beaver in Troy during rush hour. Woodward in the 'burbs during peak hours. THOSE are areas that would get the majority of the metro area's attention.

Besides some Quicken Loans workers, who's going to care that you're protesting downtown? Most of the people down there are already sympathetic to the protests or don't care. Visibility is poor UNLESS there is a big sports game. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.

Royal Oak and Birmingham would bring reinforcements and equipment they normally bring out for the Dream Cruise and it would be over before it started. They wouldn't block Woodward or Big Beaver for the protesters to cross either.

The Campus Martius protest was the only thing the media reported about Noel Night. The event was actually fun and not "marred" by the protesters at all.

[JBMcB]

The Campus Martius protest was the only thing the media reported about Noel Night. The event was actually fun and not "marred" by the protesters at all.

That's great news, good for the protesters. I'm all for getting out on the street and letting your voice be heard, but don't bother others doing their thing. The A-holes in Seattle were screaming at little kids trying to sing Christmas carols. That crosses the line from being concerned protesters to being self-centered whiny brats.

[Jimaz]

... The A-holes in Seattle were screaming at little kids trying to sing Christmas carols. That crosses the line from being concerned protesters to being self-centered whiny brats.

That sounds more like the act of agents provocateurs than conscientious protesters.

[nain rouge]

Royal Oak and Birmingham would bring reinforcements and equipment they normally bring out for the Dream Cruise and it would be over before it started. They wouldn't block Woodward or Big Beaver for the protesters to cross either.

The cops never willingly block off the freeways, either. But I don't see how cops could stop you from blocking off small roads like Main Street and Old Woodward, at least not without making a HUGE scene.

Metro Detroit was purposefully set up to trap everything that's supposedly "undesirable" in Detroit. That way people can protest in downtown Detroit while almost everyone with money smirks from the suburbs. Protesting in Detroit is just playing into the hands of people like L. Brooks Patterson. They want you to do that stuff downtown. I guarantee you that 99.99% of the people in OC didn't give the mighty downtown protests two seconds of thought.

[noise]

Okay Noise, have fun with this.
Crank up the Police presence everywhere downtown Detroit and make it a place that folks from the Upper Peninsula would like to visit - is that a better statement for you to twist upon ?
-- vs. What I said in Post #52....

There was nothing to twist. I addressed your victim-blaming.

I am okay with this. As long as none of those officers carry firearms.

[noise]

Everyone here knows exactly what happened, and precisely what the cop should have done. Should he have held his fire? Would the child have killed another child? Or the cop? Or would more time have shown that it was fake?

If only DY's own team of mind-reading, perfect-in-every-action gang were there instead of this racist rogue cop, this would have turned out rainbows and lollipops.

I'll bet when fired, the gun popped out a 'bang' flag that slowly unfurled?

When an innocent 12 year old is shot dead by police officers for playing with a toy gun [[something probably everyone posting here did at one time), yes, the cop definitely did something absolutely wrong.

[bailey]

When an innocent 12 year old is shot dead by police officers for playing with a toy gun [[something probably everyone posting here did at one time), yes, the cop definitely did something absolutely wrong.

...and if he's not at the very least charged with some form of negligent homicide, then by all means burn down Cleveland. I just don't understand what any of this is supposed to accomplish here. Is DPD killing 12 yr olds or loosie sellers or convenience store shoplifters?

[noise]

...and if he's not at the very least charged with some form of negligent homicide, then by all means burn down Cleveland. I just don't understand what any of this is supposed to accomplish here. Is DPD killing 12 yr olds or loosie sellers or convenience store shoplifters?

I think you lost context of my comment. I was replying to Wesley Mouch and the topic had shifted away from Detroit area protesters.

That said, I'm surprised you're unable to see that many people view this as a nationwide, systemic problem.

[bailey]

I think you lost context of my comment. I was replying to Wesley Mouch and the topic had shifted away from Detroit area protesters.

That said, I'm surprised you're unable to see that many people view this as a nationwide, systemic problem.

I understand many people view it that way, what I don't understand is why...well, I do understand "why", what I mean is once the numbers are actually put in context, it seems to be rather odd thing to get this incensed about. And again, what are they protesting here? mistreatment by which Police Department exactly and what change are they demanded from what department? What systemic abuses have the protesters encountered here?

[Bham1982]

When an innocent 12 year old is shot dead by police officers for playing with a toy gun [[something probably everyone posting here did at one time), yes, the cop definitely did something absolutely wrong.

"Every child" paints a toy gun to look exactly like a real gun, then aims that gun at innocents at a community center, then, when the police arrive, refuses police commands and aims the gun at the police?

And here we have yet another example of someone who happens to be black doing something illegal and foolish, refusing police commands, threatening police and the public, and then there is shock at the inevitable result.

Next I'm sure it will be "the cops should have shot the gun out of his hands, like I saw in that movie last week"...

[noise]

"Every child" paints a toy gun to look exactly like a real gun, then aims that gun at innocents at a community center, then, when the police arrive, refuses police commands and aims the gun at the police?

And here we have yet another example of someone who happens to be black doing something illegal and foolish, refusing police commands, threatening police and the public, and then there is shock at the inevitable result.

Next I'm sure it will be "the cops should have shot the gun out of his hands, like I saw in that movie last week"...

Are you getting your information from the 911 caller who said it was probably just a kid? Or are you just making things up?

I know I aimed toy guns [[pre-orange tips) at "innocent" [[really?) kids who were playing with me. Is that illegal, as well? Which law are you citing?

[Bham1982]

Are you getting your information from the 911 caller who said it was probably just a kid? Or are you just making things up?

Everything I just mentioned is straight from the news articles. Do you have some inside information that is different?

I know I aimed toy guns [[pre-orange tips) at "innocent" [[really?) kids who were playing with me. Is that illegal, as well? Which law are you citing?

That has nothing to do with the situation. The kid was aiming a gun, as far as the police, community, and witnesses knew. No one knew it was a fake gun until the kid was dead.

If you, as a child did the same, you would almost certainly be dead. This is again the conflating of issues. Everyone knows that East Cleveland [[the worst part of Cleveland, and almost entirely black) has crazy gun violence, now they are shocked that police assumed that a kid pointing a gun to panicked onlookers in the middle of violence-infested East Cleveland was a potential threat.

Again, as with the other cases, if you primary aim is saving the lives of young black males, the issue is reducing the violence in the African American community. Then maybe the community center wouldn't be panicking, the cops wouldn't be scared, the 911 call wouldn't made, and the kid wouldn't be dead. But it's not reasonable to say the cops should just stand there and wait to be shot at just in case the gun wasn't real.

[bailey]

Are you getting your information from the 911 caller who said it was probably just a kid? Or are you just making things up?

I know I aimed toy guns [[pre-orange tips) at "innocent" [[really?) kids who were playing with me. Is that illegal, as well? Which law are you citing?

The police officer in question was fired from his previous department for being a fuck up. The dispatcher didn't relate to him any of the commentary from the call. So you have two things setting up to be a problem. Color me surprised he fucked up and shot a kid. I don't think its racist thing, I think he's just terrible at his job and when you're terrible at job as important as this, it usually means someone is going to die or get hurt.

[noise]

Everything I just mentioned is straight from the news articles. Do you have some inside information that is different?

Interestingly enough, my "inside information" comes from news articles that say none of what you posted. Maybe check your sources.

That has nothing to do with the situation. The kid was aiming a gun, as far as the police, community, and witnesses knew. No one knew it was a fake gun until the kid was dead.

If you, as a child did the same, you would almost certainly be dead. This is again the conflating of issues. Everyone knows that East Cleveland [[the worst part of Cleveland, and almost entirely black) has crazy gun violence, now they are shocked that police assumed that a kid pointing a gun to panicked onlookers in the middle of violence-infested East Cleveland was a potential threat.

Again, as with the other cases, if you primary aim is saving the lives of young black males, the issue is reducing the violence in the African American community. Then maybe the community center wouldn't be panicking, the cops wouldn't be scared, the 911 call wouldn't made, and the kid wouldn't be dead. But it's not reasonable to say the cops should just stand there and wait to be shot at just in case the gun wasn't real.

A kid playing has everything to do with the situation. That was the situation. A kid was playing, as many kids do, and was killed for it. There's no "almost certainly" about it. That's completely false.

[noise]

The police officer in question was fired from his previous department for being a fuck up. The dispatcher didn't relate to him any of the commentary from the call. So you have two things setting up to be a problem. Color me surprised he fucked up and shot a kid. I don't think its racist thing, I think he's just terrible at his job and when you're terrible at job as important as this, it usually means someone is going to die or get hurt.

I find it difficult to discuss racism in individual cases such as this, so I won't. I agree that this is, at least, a case of horrendous police work.

[Gpwrangler]

[/COLOR]
The cops never willingly block off the freeways, either. But I don't see how cops could stop you from blocking off small roads like Main Street and Old Woodward, at least not without making a HUGE scene.

They most certainly did block 94 and 75 or the protesters would have been run over, and probably some killed. You don't have the right of way walking on a highway so drivers would not be charged. If you don't think they can stop you from stopping traffic on the roads you mentioned, watch the end of the dream cruise. Not to mention if you make a couple hundred commuters who need their jobs late for work. Bad decision.

[nain rouge]

Well, yeah, the cops were basically forced to block the freeway to prevent the loss of life. It wasn't done as a polite gesture to protesters. That was my point.

I don't think your Dream Cruise example holds much weight. Sure, it's easy to clear the streets when people aren't trying to protest and just want to avoid a ticket. But yes, those magical suburban police can do anything.

[bailey]

Well, yeah, the cops were basically forced to block the freeway to prevent the loss of life. It wasn't done as a polite gesture to protesters. That was my point.

I don't think your Dream Cruise example holds much weight. Sure, it's easy to clear the streets when people aren't trying to protest and just want to avoid a ticket. But yes, those magical suburban police can do anything.

Its not magic... they're just itching to deploy all that neato milspec hardware they've been gifted. No fun keeping those new MRAPs in the garage.

[G-DDT]

That sounds more like the act of agents provocateurs than conscientious protesters.

Oh, and believe me [[and if not, read your history) they do exist-maybe since before the Maccabeans. Early Christianity, Revolutionary times [[American, French, or otherwise), Union scuffles, Civil Rights movements, any activist movement since. That is why I stayed away from activism in the '90s. A lot of the wrong folks with egotistical, sloganeering, pointless effigyism [[remember the naked activists laying down in coffins in front of a Royal Oak fur-dealer?-yeah, no one is going to look past that to whatever ideology you espouse), and violent tendencies were in the forefront. They spoke the best and the loudest, and they seemed like the real and only deal [[I still recall one-who still has a current prominent weblog-ranting on a porch of a coffeehouse in Wayne State going on about Bobby Sands this and Bobby Sands that, and with all of the girls fawning at his feet. When I inquired-without a lick of contention in my voice-as to who Bobby Sands was, I got my head bit off, and the girls giving me dirty looks at my "pig-ignorance". Always a "shame on me" because I never joined DeMolay or something.).
Fact is, they aren't the real and only deal. They're there to deliberately misrepresent a cause and paint it out to be an unattractive, 2-dimensional thing. That is why only bad representations of Christianity [[like the recent brash of reality-show Amish-bashing) or the homeless [[as I stated before on other threads, most homeless are unseen, trying to stay afloat, not aggressively panhandling) hold prominence in our Western culture.
I recall how Anti-racist activists were so jolly after disrupting a Klan meeting in Ann Arbor. An activist pamphlet was handed to me with the [[almost staged) image of a huge Rastafarian kicking a scrawny skinhead on the ground [[and I say to myself "ooo boy, this ain't going to play out well"). Sure enough, I come home and the front page photo on the Detroit News was the same one with the title to the tune of "Violent Protestors Attack Peaceful Gathering".
I was so disturbed when the most prominent activists that belonged to a certain peace-oriented group [[I belonged to for over ten years) in Boston railed on acting in a violent manner during the Occupy movement [[I still recall a Michigan man calmly debating in the kitchen with two of the ranters-he obviously felt the way we in Michigan have always felt from repeated experience; we had heard enough of the violence in the Mid-west, and we were sick of it.). When I traveled to Cincinnati, Providence, Champaign, and re-established myself more in Madison, each chapter I visited were horrified at what I told them. Nothing of the sort was going on with the activities of our movement during the Occupy.
Beware of the Celebrities [[especially the ones who came out of the '60s undamaged or alive) in these efforts. They may be doing Bike activism or anti-corporate marches [[Philip Morris's "Truth"-oh Lord, I can't believe that tripe has resurfaced.). Yet, they are not on the level.

[G-DDT]

Its not magic... they're just itching to deploy all that neato milspec hardware they've been gifted. No fun keeping those new MRAPs in the garage.

That wasn't Bryan Adams they were blasting into the compounds of Noriega or John Dupont's compound to flush them out. Colbert often makes reference to such urban pacification-based technologies. Remember M.I.T.'s greatest contractor is the U.S. government.

[JBMcB]

That sounds more like the act of agents provocateurs than conscientious protesters.

Wow that agent provocateur group is really sophisticated. Turns out they were actually running the protests, as one of the protest organizers specifically said their goal was to bother people at the tree lighting ceremony.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/...rs-5922596.php

[Willi]

What do you feed a HORSE on life support with a feeding tube , an iron lung, and a CPR paddle taped to his chest while beating it unconcious every night .....?

[G-DDT]

HORSE-as in the basketball game?

[Willi]

As in whipping a dead horse repeatedly in hopes it will continue to gallop another day

Criminals are criminals and remain criminals even when they are shot by a cop. Police might do well to shoot more often, then criminals may actually fear the police.

[aj3647]

When an innocent 12 year old is shot dead by police officers for playing with a toy gun [[something probably everyone posting here did at one time), yes, the cop definitely did something absolutely wrong.

This is the actual "toy" he was carrying.



Call it a toy all you want. If it was pointed at YOU, you'd piss your pants thinking it was the real deal. Anyone would.