Today's Action In Campus Martius [Ferguson/Eric Garner Protest]

[Wesley Mouch]

I do not feel sorry for our country at all. Certain citizens like the race crap but most get past that bull. Harmed by black men at nineteen. Abducted raped robbed. Got past that shit.
I live in a predominate black community, our closest friends are people of color. Do not do the white folk crap

Congrats on your tenacity. Good things follow.

Your post reminded me that policy brutality is not a racial issue. Sure, there are racist white cops. But having lived in the city through 100% of CAY's reign, I can tell you that the brutality of the black cops of the 80s was impressive. I saw the faces of black kids being beated by Gang Squad on downtown streets. It wasn't about race. But it was inappropriate.

Read an interesting article on urbanophile on black mayors in America. Reminded me of the argument that the Black Nationalists stole the Civil Rights battle following the killing of MLK. I see parallels with today. Black America has a decision to make. Should today's radicals drive the next phase of the 'conversation of racism', or should leaders like President Obama who represents the success of the 'cooperative' traditional Civil Rights Movement?

I suggest to BA that success is so close. Returning to a 'its the white guys keepinng us down' narrative will harm BA. We are entering a potentially explosive phase of America's post civil rights 'reconciliation'. Will BA say 'thanks for accepting us in so much', or will BA say 'you haven't done shit MFer'.

I hope for the former, and expect the later. And the current protests have told much of white America the latter. And I think that's a mistake for BA.

[Willi]

How about a massive push for each citizen to not commit crime drawing the attention of the police for incarceration

It works equally well for all skin colors
Ethnicities, and people within the country

[noise]

How about a massive push for each citizen to not commit crime drawing the attention of the police for incarceration

It works equally well for all skin colors
Ethnicities, and people within the country

And women shouldn't wear short skirts, am I right?!?

It's easier to blame the victim than to address the issue.

[bailey]

And women shouldn't wear short skirts, am I right?!?

It's easier to blame the victim than to address the issue.

A woman wearing a short skirt is not an invitation to be raped. Engaging in criminal activity IS an invitation for a cop to detain and/or arrest you. Getting belligerent with said cop is grounds to have said cop physically restrain you. False equivalencies aren't addressing the issue either.

[noise]

A woman wearing a short skirt is not an invitation to be raped. Engaging in criminal activity IS an invitation for a cop to detain and/or arrest you. Getting belligerent with said cop is grounds to have said cop physically restrain you. False equivalencies aren't addressing the issue either.

It's interesting that you ignored the issue at hand: police killing citizens.

[bailey]

It's interesting that you ignored the issue at hand: police killing citizens.

I've ignored nothing. I'm just not trying to wrap it up in a social justice/white cop being racist costume when the issue is more about malpractice and criminal activity. If garner hadn't been a career petty criminal and actively engaged in a criminal activity he wouldn't have had any interaction with the police. Had the police been properly trained in handling a belligerent 400lb man they were taking into custody, he wouldn't be dead.

I wholeheartedly agree that charges should have been brought.. at least manslaughter. But, again, that is a different issue.

[Bham1982]

It's interesting that you ignored the issue at hand: police killing citizens.

Except they aren't. The entire premise behind the protests is essentially a lie, or at the least, a gross exaggeration.

In NYC, last year, there were eight civilians killed by police gunfire. All eight were carrying either guns or knives. Only four of the eight were African American.

In contrast, hundreds of African Americans are killed in every one of our major cities, every year, year after year.

Even if we are to assume that 100% of police killings are unjustified [[an absurd assumption, IMO), it's a fact that police killings amount to almost zero, while tens and tens of thousands of young black males have been killed by other civillians, mostly other young black males.

So, if "black lives matter", then how are we to save black lives? Obviously by reducing black-on-black crime. Police killings, even if we assume 100% to be race-based murders, approach zero.

Except the protesters believe that law enforcement is the enemy, and there is far too much preventive law enforcement in the black community as-is. So what's the solution here? Something isn't adding up.

This isn't to say that there aren't needed police reforms, that there aren't racists in blue, or that law enforcement can't do a better job. But it is true that, when it comes to saving black lives, the issue is clearly black-on-black violence, and not police [[mis)conduct.

[Wesley Mouch]

Except they aren't. The entire premise behind the protests is essentially a lie, or at the least, a gross exaggeration.

In NYC, last year, there were eight civilians killed by police gunfire. All eight were carrying either guns or knives. Only four of the eight were African American.

In contrast, hundreds of African Americans are killed in every one of our major cities, every year, year after year.

Even if we are to assume that 100% of police killings are unjustified [[an absurd assumption, IMO), it's a fact that police killings amount to almost zero, while tens and tens of thousands of young black males have been killed by other civillians, mostly other young black males.

So, if "black lives matter", then how are we to save black lives? Obviously by reducing black-on-black crime. Police killings, even if we assume 100% to be race-based murders, approach zero.

Except the protesters believe that law enforcement is the enemy, and there is far too much preventive law enforcement in the black community as-is. So what's the solution here? Something isn't adding up.

This isn't to say that there aren't needed police reforms, that there aren't racists in blue, or that law enforcement can't do a better job. But it is true that, when it comes to saving black lives, the issue is clearly black-on-black violence, and not police [[mis)conduct.

I wish I could write this well.

Allow me to add that I don't think that most protesters believe law enforcement is the enemy -- but the those who are pushing the 'war on cops' are winning the PR battle. Profiling? Always bad. Stop & Frisk? Always bad. Arresting citizens for petty crimes [[cigarettes)? Always bad.

I'm suggest buying stock in Dunkin Donuts. Cops will be doing less of what might cost them their live, job, and reputation. Cops will be eating more donuts. The rich will make more money on their donut investments. And the poor will get the joy of common criminals stepping up their game. Life sure isn't fair.

Be careful what you wish for here.

[noise]

I've ignored nothing. I'm just not trying to wrap it up in a social justice/white cop being racist costume when the issue is more about malpractice and criminal activity. If garner hadn't been a career petty criminal and actively engaged in a criminal activity he wouldn't have had any interaction with the police. Had the police been properly trained in handling a belligerent 400lb man they were taking into custody, he wouldn't be dead.

I wholeheartedly agree that charges should have been brought.. at least manslaughter. But, again, that is a different issue.

And if you were arguing that appropriate charges had been brought, I'd agree. Instead, he's dead.

[noise]

Except they aren't. The entire premise behind the protests is essentially a lie, or at the least, a gross exaggeration.

In NYC, last year, there were eight civilians killed by police gunfire. All eight were carrying either guns or knives. Only four of the eight were African American.

In contrast, hundreds of African Americans are killed in every one of our major cities, every year, year after year.

Even if we are to assume that 100% of police killings are unjustified [[an absurd assumption, IMO), it's a fact that police killings amount to almost zero, while tens and tens of thousands of young black males have been killed by other civillians, mostly other young black males.

So, if "black lives matter", then how are we to save black lives? Obviously by reducing black-on-black crime. Police killings, even if we assume 100% to be race-based murders, approach zero.

Except the protesters believe that law enforcement is the enemy, and there is far too much preventive law enforcement in the black community as-is. So what's the solution here? Something isn't adding up.

This isn't to say that there aren't needed police reforms, that there aren't racists in blue, or that law enforcement can't do a better job. But it is true that, when it comes to saving black lives, the issue is clearly black-on-black violence, and not police [[mis)conduct.

They aren't, except when they did.

Meanwhile, crime rates continue to decrease and police officers are less likely to be injured or killed on the job than construction workers. Believe it or not, there can be more than one issue to address.

I think Wesley Mouch makes a good point, though, regarding who is winning the PR battle. From my standpoint, it's easy to see a problem without buying into the rhetoric from either side.

[Willi]

Okay Noise, have fun with this.
Crank up the Police presence everywhere downtown Detroit and make it a place that folks from the Upper Peninsula would like to visit - is that a better statement for you to twist upon ?
-- vs. What I said in Post #52....

[sumas]

I pretty much have no issue with police in our district. In fact I think they are outstanding. My husband did get a strange moving violation ticket. He sent a gift card to the precinct fom willy hortons for a dozen donuts. I was amused.

[sumas]

I pretty much have no issue with police in our district. In fact I think they are outstanding. My husband did get a strange moving violation ticket. He sent a gft card to the precinct fom willy hortons for a dozen donuts. I was amused.

Sorry I did not mean to flippant. Deep issues do exist.

[G-DDT]

Yeah, Yeah. You're full of shit. Not sure anyone ever lead a civil rights movement from a coffee house in Royal Oak which is where you reside. A home boy you have never been so stop acting like you have any allegiance or real interest in those who are oppressed. You're so interested in civil rights demonstrations and you sleep your ass comfortably in a mostly white suburb every night.

Go get a job. White Castle is hiring.

Yo! If you did your research, RapBrown claims [[as you do) to be from Detroit [[not this gives us any better bragging rights, and if one wants to make an issue of it, I lived in Detroit for the first thirty years of my life, before default and bankruptcy placed me in Dearborn). If one wants to make it a matter of a "claim" on his part, then folks need to see that the justice system "claimed" to do what was right, but we were not privy to see the processes at work. This is the benefit of the doubt we need to see any of these cases. There was little justice in the trial of "good man" Beckwith after he killed Medgar Evers, and little has changed today. Anytime these incidents [[which I painstakingly threw out a lot of information on) occur, there's always an "investigation", a town hall meeting where folks sound off to a bunch of panel folks zonked out on cough syrup, or there is a promise to change policy and training [[just as we were promised that this Furman-esque chokehold stuff was ended in N.Y.C.)--and nothing ever changes for the better. Anyone with half the capacity for critical thinking can clearly see and compare that. Fact is, every aspect in the Brown shooting from the responding [[other) officer not even taking notes to leaving his body in the streets [[not to mention an almost all white police force, the beating/charged for bleeding on officers of Henry Davis and the ensuing exoneration of Kim Tihen, or the rape of a preganant woman by Jaris Hayden) to the superficial scratches on his face that could've been done by Gene "Popeye Doyle" Hackman, himself was rotten. It seems none of the clunkers I left on the previous thread were addressed [[if anything, it just momentarily quelled the very mosquito-like behavior I blasted away).
I'm disgusted at the very uncivil and troll-like manner of folks on this site. Calling people names, saying they are full of "sh*t" [[as a Christian, I keep my language merely suggestive or PG and I've gotten some harmless ribbing over it), assuming they don't have jobs [[which even the case, does not remove a person's rights to speak up, vote or what have you-would you dare say otherwise to the folks who were involved in the massive newspaper strikes back when, or huge Ford lay-offs in the Bush-era?). Yes, we need a better focus on handling protests which must be direct and effective in civil disobedience without obstructive day-to-day life and pissing people off. No violence, no rioting, no stupid self-aggregating creativity with the sound bytes or effigy-making. just hard, determined [[and loud) diligence and perseverance and the ability to bravely turn the other cheek when the tear gas and truncheons come. Also, I may not like what people do or say or the policies and organizations they support, but I don't judge or write folks off as "scumbags' or "a**holes". That is uncalled for and out of line-so stop it, now! I separate the sinner from the sin, and I may not excuse behavior but I can best explain some of it. When you got cops coming up to a touch-freaky man and swarming him like there a bunch of Snoids [[Crumb reference) it bounds to make someone stiffen. Laying limp and using passive resistance can be written off as "resisting arrest". W M [[and I hope he made a typo there) said, himself, Garner deserved to die for that. How Reconstructionalist Old Testament is that?!
If no one has been paying attention to the facts: our society is becoming more and more nightmarishly Orwellian. Part of it is putting up teams of trolls to spike commentary and discussion sites with disparaging comments [[like Hoover sending folks to boo Chaplin's "Great Dictator" or that one Channel 4 news guy booing Kwame when he praised the Red Wings winning). I was told in the '80s that the reason the Soviets were the "evil empire" is because they spy on their citizens, censor media, make secret arrests [[remember the blue triangles that were all around Wayne State after 9-11-I do!), lock folks away in distant camps, torture folks, experiment on folks, and turn one nation against another. As time went by, I quickly learned we were no better-but were worse, because we lie, lie, lie and put on great efforts of a gilded cage front to placate our citizens to spin them in a state of doubt that "this isn't happening". Thing is: the facts that are now in light, were in light back in the '70s [[we just did a better job of banding together and limiting it's seeping, creeping influence), and when this gets recycled, we act like "thas' news to me." I speak not out of cynicism but a healthy sense of skepticism that looks at the facts throughout all times and places-forest and trees and bark [[and the devil in the details). Racism favors white and suburbs and most cops are thugs that need to be kept in check [[yet, it was Crumb who pointed out the funny irony of how you want more of them when you need them), and the U.N. is not in a conspiracy, and far too much is made to bash Muslims [[but oddly enough, not step in when Buddhists attack them in Myanmar), and blindly defend a political [[not spiritual) dominionist-minded Israel. In face, it was who suggested violent reprisal against the general arab community over the "beheadings" on another site. I know I will be ignored for this, but folks need to be civil, or I pray Lowell steps in and quells this disrepectfulness.

[G-DDT]

Chris Rock agrees and has some very smart advice: http://youtu.be/QR465HoCWFQ

Ever see Chris Rock's first performances on HBO in the '80s? Looked like he was in New Edition going on about how "prisoner's got it easy". He had something blasting Color eye contacts, Arizona [[McCain) for not respecting M.L.K. day on SNL, and his thought son "bullet-control" are funny, but "Dogma"...[[yeah, "Jesus born again through a woman", someone doesn't know Eschatology 101, Mr. Comic Book man Kevin Smith. There's enough apocryphal nonsense in Hollywood, and Frida Kahlo and Professor Snape should've known better before taking on that script. But I digress....)

[G-DDT]

From my reading of the posts above, I can see that the concerted effort to smear Michael Brown's life and turn him into a thug succeeded.

1. Maybe he did rob the store, maybe he shoplifted, maybe he did neither.

2. He was not stopped for shoplifting or robbery. He was stopped for walking in the street.

3. Right here, something different could have happened. The officer could have politely asked him to get off the street. That is not what happened.

4. Michael Brown could have meekly gotten off the street. That is not what happened.

5. If witnesses are correct, how Michael Brown entered the police car is not completely clear.

6. Michael Brown had good points that have been completely steamrolled by the police and media efforts to smear him and turn him into a thug. Does anyone remember that he was days from his first day at college when shot? He had plans for a productive future.

7. Michael Brown had no criminal record.

He seems to have been an ordinary kid who made some bad decisions that day, one to mouth off to a police officer with a scary attitude.

Yes. I applaud your fact gathering. Good jorb!

[Gpwrangler]

Does that apply to the kid in Cleveland as well. Before you answer that question, have you seen the video of the police pulling up and shooting him in a matter of seconds [[then fudging the reports afterwards)

It's impossible to see anything clearly in that video. The call was dispatched as a person with a gun, and he happened to have one [[fake but deliberately made to look real). It's tragic that this situation ended with loss of life. Might have turned out different if the cops knew for sure the gun was fake.

[Scottathew]

It's impossible to see anything clearly in that video. The call was dispatched as a person with a gun, and he happened to have one [[fake but deliberately made to look real). It's tragic that this situation ended with loss of life. Might have turned out different if the cops knew for sure the gun was fake.

On this one I wonder if the cops needed to drive to such a close proximity. I think that really elevated the danger. If they would have stayed back and issued verbal commands from a safer distance, would they have needed to shoot him right away?

I understand the cops point of view, they saw a gun, he reached for it, they shot him. But I do think it may have been possible to have a different outcome.

The Micheal "I take what I want" Brown case is completely different.

[G-DDT]

Also, helps to know if he's a deaf man holding a rake. A guy in a wheelchair in Lafeyette, In. A woman walking the freeway in LA. A guy handcuffed behind his back in a squad car who manages to shoot himself in the head. Not all cops are bad, but I clearly see a large hypocrisy in a country that defends capitol punishment [[most of which cruelly botched) as a deterrent and a strong example for killers, but cops who kill [[or even community patrol guys with anger issues who kill) needlessly seem to get off with [[a lot of help from such fraternal organizations as the the F.O.P.) no example to set for the other police to be more level-headed and unbiased.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

It's impossible to see anything clearly in that video. The call was dispatched as a person with a gun, and he happened to have one [[fake but deliberately made to look real). It's tragic that this situation ended with loss of life. Might have turned out different if the cops knew for sure the gun was fake.

Also might have turned out differently if the cop [[who was let go from another police force after having been deemed unfit) took longer than 1.5 to 2 seconds to pull the trigger.

[Gpwrangler]

Also might have turned out differently if the cop [[who was let go from another police force after having been deemed unfit) took longer than 1.5 to 2 seconds to pull the trigger.

How long do you think he should have waited? 10 seconds? Maybe 30? Never mind, West Coast, liberals know everything.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

How long do you think he should have waited? 10 seconds? Maybe 30? Never mind, West Coast, liberals know everything.

How many of Cliven Bundys white thugs who actually had guns pointed at law enforcement for days were killed?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

How long do you think he should have waited? 10 seconds? Maybe 30? Never mind, West Coast, liberals know everything.

Maybe long enough to actually figure the situation out? He did lie about numerous details in his initial statement.

[Gpwrangler]

Maybe long enough to actually figure the situation out? He did lie about numerous details in his initial statement.

Excellent analysis.

[Wesley Mouch]

Everyone here knows exactly what happened, and precisely what the cop should have done. Should he have held his fire? Would the child have killed another child? Or the cop? Or would more time have shown that it was fake?

If only DY's own team of mind-reading, perfect-in-every-action gang were there instead of this racist rogue cop, this would have turned out rainbows and lollipops.

I'll bet when fired, the gun popped out a 'bang' flag that slowly unfurled?