NY Transplant discovers that Detroit is just as expensive

[maverick1]

the cost is serious, one way or another.

Side note: More diverse housing options are needed, throughout the broader neighborhoods. Overwhelming numbers of single-family homes. More quality apartments, lofts, condos, etc. options are needed, beyond downtown, midtown and corktown.

I was talking to someone over Thanksgiving that works in real estate and community development and she said the same thing. There is a HUGE lack of diverse housing in the neighborhoods. Apartments or multifamily housing is almost non-existent in the city yet 700 sq ft bungalows on 5,000 sq ft lots are a dime a dozen.

[Dumpling]

I would increase the state sales tax and would have a state graduated income tax too [[biting bitter pill) and then increasing state revenue sharing to the city rather than have the property tax in this instance.


Wonderful! You would steal money [[sales tax) from all the poor little towns all over Michigan to support the poor city of Detroit. Then, of course, you would take some of the poor little towns' revenue sharing as well. Let's talk about this.....

Detroit's median yearly income is about a thousand dollars higher than the small town that I live in. Why do you wish to make us even poorer? You seem to think that everyone outside of Detroit is a rich, WE AIN'T. We be poor also. We can't afford to pay for Detroit's screw-ups!

Detroit politicians dug the hole you are in, now Detroit needs to fill in that hole on their own.

Detroit is in the position it is in because of politics and the people's vote for the powers that have been and are in charge of Detroit's financial situation. BTW That is the people of Detroit's votes, not the rest of the 8 to 9 million or so of other Michigan voters. You really get very little sympathy from us as we didn't vote for those politicians in Detroit, Detroiters voted 'em in, not us.

Think about it!!!

Well, with a little nudge from Main Street Merchants, it looks as though Plan A from the lame
duck legislature is to tax Internet sales in Michigan the same as brick-and-mortar sales,
so if you haven't been buying or selling anything on the Internet you won't be richer or poorer as a result of the new tax.

[Dumpling]

Small towns in Michigan don't have it easy. People there are not rich. Demographic
charts show that small town men in Michigan are not surviving as long as they should,
same as for Detroit men. Close a plant in a backwoods small town and the unemployment
rate skyrockets to twice that of metro Detroit. For the cherry on top, metro Detroit
voted the wolf hunt down last month.

[Dumpling]

Just as metro Detroit can take an interest in the wolf hunt, so the outstate nine million can take an interest in state scrapping and squatting legislation with the goal of making life better for affected Detroiters [[they should not have to worry about having their house destroyed) and keeping outstate taxes low [[you should not have to foot the bill for tearing a destroyed Detroit house down).
There are some plan B's out there but that's for another thread; this one is for the New York
transplants and their expenses.

[Bham1982]

SFor the cherry on top, metro Detroit
voted the wolf hunt down last month.

Allowing people to try and kill the few dozen remaining wolves in Michigan is somehow linked to rural prosperity? Huh?

[masterblaster]

I was talking to someone over Thanksgiving that works in real estate and community development and she said the same thing. There is a HUGE lack of diverse housing in the neighborhoods. Apartments or multifamily housing is almost non-existent in the city yet 700 sq ft bungalows on 5,000 sq ft lots are a dime a dozen.

There are plenty of two-family flats, 3-family flats, and 4-family flats in Detroit's westside, in the neighborhoods between Woodward and Livernois, from 7 Mile Road down to Michigan Ave/Fort Street. Neighborhoods offs of Livernois, Dexter, Linwood, Rosa Parks, and Woodward have a plethora of this type of housing - as well as small apartment buildings sprinkled in.

In addition, alot of the West-side north-south main roads like Greenfield, Meyers, Evergreen have 1950's apartment buildings and 1940's-1950's duplexes.

For example, this is a block of 2 and 4-family flats in Dexter-Davison [[notice the apartment building on the corner):
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3881...fg!2e0!6m1!1e1



Neighborhoods between Boston-Edison and Highland Park have impressive 2-family flats:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3797...WA!2e0!6m1!1e1


It's just that nobody wants to live in these neighborhoods. They are not desirable. They are forgotten. They are very run-down, but they do exist. Detroit isn't all bungalows.

[Bham1982]

There are plenty of two-family flats, 3-family flats, and 4-family flats in Detroit's westside, in the neighborhoods between Woodward and Livernois, from 7 Mile Road down to Michigan Ave/Fort Street. .

Exactly. Two- and three-flats and small apartment buildings are the norm on the West Side, all the way west to Greenfield or so, and from the river to 7 Mile or so, especially in the old Jewish neighborhoods.

The reason so many have disappeared is because of lack of demand. There's hardly a shortage of multifamily in Detroit city or metro.

[animatedmartian]

Also, those flats are huge. A single floor is something like 2,000 square feet in most areas. I would imagine renovating them would either jack up the rents by a lot or you'd have to take a loss. Either that or you use volunteer labor and donated materials.

[stasu1213]

New York has a much better transit system so evethough the cost of living is extremely high New Yorker's money goes into the high rent for smaller spaces. Detroiter's money goes to high insurances and gasoline price being that Detroiters have to drive into the suburbs for better shopping whether clothing, housewares, or groceries. Cost of living is going up in downtown Detroit but there are still no retail stores like that of midtown Manhattan.

[masterblaster]

New York has a much better transit system so evethough the cost of living is extremely high New Yorker's money goes into the high rent for smaller spaces. Detroiter's money goes to high insurances and gasoline price being that Detroiters have to drive into the suburbs for better shopping whether clothing, housewares, or groceries. Cost of living is going up in downtown Detroit but there are still no retail stores like that of midtown Manhattan.

Yeah, these developers are demanding a ton in rent to live downtown, but downtown still doesn't offer nearly as much amenities, vivaciousness, public transit, etc, as a big city downtown should.

[masterblaster]

Exactly. Two- and three-flats and small apartment buildings are the norm on the West Side, all the way west to Greenfield or so, and from the river to 7 Mile or so, especially in the old Jewish neighborhoods.

The reason so many have disappeared is because of lack of demand. There's hardly a shortage of multifamily in Detroit city or metro.

I think these multi-family neighborhoods would be in HIGH, HIGH demand if

1. They were safe
2. They were adjacant to vibrant walkable commercial corridors. Dexter, Linwood, Joy, Livernois, Rosa Parks are abysmal.
3. There existed a rapid transit system that residents of these 'hoods could take to get to downtown or midtown.

[ABetterDetroit]

Even if the property tax is eliminated, the city still needs a dedicated revenue source to pay for policing, fire and bus services [[which, even with its decline, the property tax still makes up the biggest share of the city's revenue).

What do you propose we replace the property tax with?

Not nearly as hard as it sounds. I am not advocating tea bagger type tax cuts, what I am saying is that Michigan and especially Detroit desperately needs personal tax reform. This must come from the state level.

1) The city income tax that Detroit [[and others) already have in place must be withheld by the employer, sent to the state and distributed back to the cities. This is a no brainer, what is happening now is just encouraging tax cheats and is costing these cities the extra revenue that they require.

2) Flatten the property tax state wide to 1% annual for full assessed value. No breaks, no loop holes that's what it is. The only exception would be out of state residential home owners pay 1.5%, every smart state does it, ding the out of state folks as hard as you can without chasing them away.

3) The make up and why this isn't a cut it's reform. Make the difference up with the correct math applied to a graduated income tax at the state level. It works for uncle sam to raise trillions because that's where the money is, its in the GD income. The wealthy take care of the poor in America and that's just how it works, the majority are not interested in watching children starve on the street so take your ultra right wing agenda and stick it.

Property tax reform would significantly curb urban sprawl because the tax break on the property tax to build that McMansion in the farm field just ended, cheap real estate would have greater value because taxes are low encouraging investment inward. Renters would no longer get screwed by non-homestead property taxes being passed on to them from landlords. Mortgages would be easier to get because less money would be need to be held in escrow for the taxes making more of that money go towards the value of the home. Build personal wealth. Etc... in a lot of ways

I know this is dreamy stuff but I am expecting the governor to step up to the plate at his state of the state this January and my expectations are high. He completely reformed business taxes in his first term and the job is only half done. Get out and lead us on personal tax reform Governer Snyder in your second term and prove you are a governor for ALL the residents of Michigan

[Hypestyles]

I wish I could have a conversation with the article's author, and trade notes, see what life is generally like in NYC..

[Hypestyles]

Exactly. Two- and three-flats and small apartment buildings are the norm on the West Side, all the way west to Greenfield or so, and from the river to 7 Mile or so, especially in the old Jewish neighborhoods.

The reason so many have disappeared is because of lack of demand. There's hardly a shortage of multifamily in Detroit city or metro.

the neighborhoods are devastated. these structures exist where the next one on the block is burned-out decrepit, completely razed, or hanging on with duct tape.. The blight task force needs to directly address the lingering ____ed up structures in the neighborhoods that are traps, convenient to dump bodies in, sell drugs out of, etc.
entirely new residences need to be built.

[nain rouge]

The neighborhoods around Dexter are a travesty. When I look at the big deal people make about comparatively dinky cities like Columbus or Des Moines, it's depressing to see what Detroit gave up. With even 50% of Detroit in good shape, I think the metro population would at least be 5 million now.

[MAcc]

When I lived in Midtown, most of the other people I knew that lived there did NOT list Detroit as their legal residence. Otherwise, the taxes and car insurance will destroy you. That's a big part of the secret of "affordable" Detroit. If you come in from another state with a nice car and make Detroit your legal residence, you just screwed yourself big time.

Advocating insurance fraud, a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $50,000.00, or both. Nice.

[Shai_Hulud]

I think these multi-family neighborhoods would be in HIGH, HIGH demand if

1. They were safe
2. They were adjacant to vibrant walkable commercial corridors. Dexter, Linwood, Joy, Livernois, Rosa Parks are abysmal.
3. There existed a rapid transit system that residents of these 'hoods could take to get to downtown or midtown.

Agreed, whenever I go in one of the ~1920's 2-4 family buildings I'm impressed by the size and layouts. They are comparable to, or better than, new apartments.

However, many of the neighborhoods either have half the structures destroyed or are so impoverished you won't go near, if not both.

[nain rouge]

Advocating insurance fraud, a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $50,000.00, or both. Nice.

I'm not advocating it. Like I said, I didn't own a car. I changed my legal residence to Detroit. I'm just telling you what the reality on the ground is. The starving artists in Detroit can't afford Detroit car insurance.