Downtown bars could begin to stay open until 4 am

**Cliffy** · December-05-14, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lombaowski

Yeah, lots of factual errors and faulty logic.

No, it means nothing except more headaches for police now. It doesn't bring anything positive to the city because only degenerates are out until 4 am at a bar. Wow, the Park Bar will be open until 4 am now. The resurgence of Detroit. Look out.

**G-DDT** · December-05-14, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan

morning rush at 4:00 a.m.? How early are people going to work now?

Ah, I'm a night owl, who takes early morning walks, there is a small commute of folks leaving between 4 and 5 in the morning.

**G-DDT** · December-05-14, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect

Nighttime on the roads will get a little more dangerous. I kinda thought they were dangerous enough.

TUS

Actually, the only real danger will be that it is coldest before the dawn at about four in the morning. As long as no one passes out on the cold,cold ground before getting to their car or careening on a wet road that got rather icy at that time...God Forbid. Yet, it will also be rather vacant on said roads at that time.

**G-DDT** · December-06-14, 12:01 AM

Personally, I could care. Being open past two never affected the coffeehouses or afterhours that dared to do it [[or the traffic leaving them) in Detroit in the past. It does mean a shift for bartenders and barbacks alike [[will there be an "after"-afterhours to cater to them, when they need to unwind?), and more for the police to be vigilant to be about....

**SpartanDawg** · December-06-14, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

No, it means nothing except more headaches for police now. It doesn't bring anything positive to the city because only degenerates are out until 4 am at a bar. Wow, the Park Bar will be open until 4 am now. The resurgence of Detroit. Look out.

oh cmon hahahah. That's an outrageous statement. Should we get off your lawn too? Every major city in America that are entertainment capitals all have bars open until 4 am.

**sumas** · December-06-14, 12:20 PM

Don't really much care. My only question is if drunk driving laws are so stiff, why expand hours? I want a shot of something, I stay home. Doesn't do much for the economy but lots safer.

**Cliffy** · December-06-14, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

oh cmon hahahah. That's an outrageous statement. Should we get off your lawn too? Every major city in America that are entertainment capitals all have bars open until 4 am.

Detroit isn't a major city. Its a 3rd world city that is trying to become a first class city. Bars open until 4 am isn't going to do shit just like casinos haven't done shit. Keep believing in your mind that this is some kind of savior. Only low lifes will be out stumbling drunk at 4 am. The people with careers like myself who pay a lot on taxes will now have more of my money going to extra police to patrol the 4 am bar crowd. This is so damn stupid. LA and SF and Boston and Philly and Pittsburgh and Denver and Dallas must be all minor league cities since they close at 2 am. More stupid shit that doesn't help Detroit and only hurts it.

**Danny** · December-06-14, 03:13 PM

Oh Oh! here's come the blind pigs for the Detroit Police to arrest. Here comes the 1967 riots the almost destroyed Detroit.

**SpartanDawg** · December-06-14, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Detroit isn't a major city. Its a 3rd world city that is trying to become a first class city. Bars open until 4 am isn't going to do shit just like casinos haven't done shit. Keep believing in your mind that this is some kind of savior. Only low lifes will be out stumbling drunk at 4 am. The people with careers like myself who pay a lot on taxes will now have more of my money going to extra police to patrol the 4 am bar crowd. This is so damn stupid. LA and SF and Boston and Philly and Pittsburgh and Denver and Dallas must be all minor league cities since they close at 2 am. More stupid shit that doesn't help Detroit and only hurts it.

degenerate low lives? are you kidding me right now? few things

1. i know for a fact LA has bars open until 4. this degenerate low life scum was there last year and stayed at a bar past 2 am. man, some low life i am huh??

2. you're painting with quite the broad brush. there are people with better careers than you [[myself included) that want to be able to stay out later than 2 am

3. i am not saying by any means it's going to save the city at all. it will help the city more than it will hurt it though, that much i can guarantee.

4. enjoy your garbage life. you sound miserable.

**sumas** · December-06-14, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

degenerate low lives? are you kidding me right now? few things

1. i know for a fact LA has bars open until 4. this degenerate low life scum was there last year and stayed at a bar past 2 am. man, some low life i am huh??

2. you're painting with quite the broad brush. there are people with better careers than you [[myself included) that want to be able to stay out later than 2 am

3. i am not saying by any means it's going to save the city at all. it will help the city more than it will hurt it though, that much i can guarantee.

4. enjoy your garbage life. you sound miserable.

Don't take comments too much to heart. Lots of idiots on the board these days. Me, "i am a happy idiot". Opinions are just that, everyone is entitled to them. Most of them ridiculous as no doubt are mine.

Didn't much like being called third class as a Detroit resident but then they don't have the rich experiences I enjoy each day. I fight my battles where I find them but my life is quite happy in the D.

Toadstool might have been a better insult.

**Zacha341** · December-07-14, 08:39 AM

Yep. Another reason for me to stay at home and drink or make sure my fun ends by midnight if I am a bar...

... no way do I want to put myself out into the melee of extra drunks fighting, and driving over an newly extended period that late. I agree there will be problems. No thank you.

Originally Posted by mtburb

Or wait until we watch the news of a police raid at one of these bars at 3 AM turning into a Ferguson-style civil unrest-that's the reason why the closing time was changed to 2 AM in 1967 and that's what also caused the decline the city was already in to immediately speed up.

**Zacha341** · December-07-14, 08:45 AM

I 100% concur with what you wrote here. Yeah we know what we've reaped from our deadbeat casinos. Heck Windsor cannot fill their TWO casino hotels.

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Bars open until 4 am isn't going to do shit just like casinos haven't done shit.

**Zacha341** · December-07-14, 08:48 AM

I'm with you. I hate to be around drunks, BMW driving ones or those weaving in and out and about in their hoopty car. I just don't care for the company on the roads. Yet this COULD BE A BOON for police round ups, empounding and ticketing galore [[revenue source and fun for everyone who has to be paid). But very ugly if we have some Ferguson and particularly the New York [[Garner) stuff... that would be a bad time to say the least!!!

Originally Posted by sumas

Don't really much care. My only question is if drunk driving laws are so stiff, why expand hours? I want a shot of something, I stay home. Doesn't do much for the economy but lots safer.

**Zacha341** · December-07-14, 08:56 AM

That's a point!! Puff-puff! There's always been after-hours on the 'down-low', but not everywhere in the D.

Originally Posted by hybridy

LOL closing time...lots of places just close & lock the door and pull curtains if you're in the know. happens more often in small town usa + then the ashtrays come back out. WIN

**Zacha341** · December-07-14, 09:06 AM

Nancy Grace'ing! LOL! I don't do cable so I don't see her, but I get your point.

Setting that aside however, people have a right to not welcome these extended hours, and that cannot all be rendered as shrill. Booze, eh-er, alcohol has always had some form of regulation and rule of law [[failures to that end withstanding). Note, there's no law about what level of drinking in goes on in your home or what size bottle to buy on the way home [[yet).

Heck, in NY, ala their benevolence to monitor self-destructive 'behaviors', is on the nut regarding how much dog-gone soda pop you can consume! Duh!!

Anyway these extended hours are probably coming. And as individuals everyone just needs to adapt and engage as they need to. I will.

Originally Posted by motz

Sarcasm aside, anyone who is Nancy Grace'ing this law needs to get over themselves. Drunk driving is going to happen regardless of the time bars close. You could even enforce prohibition and people will STILL find a way to get drunk and STILL find a way to drive and STILL find a way to injure innocent people. Saying 2am vs 4am is going to have any meaningful impact is hyperbole meant to enforce your rigid views on how other people should handle their vices.

**sumas** · December-07-14, 09:36 AM

I must say in younger days we knew the after hours joints. Tea coffee or booze. Just not worth it anymore.

Mostly I remember a two time Vietnam vet, two tours. Killed by a drunk at 8 am on the Lodge Eway. He was married only 7 days. His wife lost her mom a dear aunt and husband within months. She is dead now too. She couldn't handle all that loss. Suicide by drugs.

**Cliffy** · December-07-14, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

degenerate low lives? are you kidding me right now? few things

1. i know for a fact LA has bars open until 4. this degenerate low life scum was there last year and stayed at a bar past 2 am. man, some low life i am huh??

2. you're painting with quite the broad brush. there are people with better careers than you [[myself included) that want to be able to stay out later than 2 am

3. i am not saying by any means it's going to save the city at all. it will help the city more than it will hurt it though, that much i can guarantee.

4. enjoy your garbage life. you sound miserable.

Yes, it is going to help the city. You stumbling drunk at 4 am because you sleep in until noon everyday is the kind of people we need in Detroit. Look out, we are going to be saved by the degenerates stumbling around at 4 am LOL. Good one man.

**sumas** · December-07-14, 07:16 PM

I think the weirdest blind pig I was at was up north. We were guests and they hooked us up with other "young" people. They were dead drunk and took us to some trailer in the middle of no where. The drinks flowed and were cheap. Frankly I was scared silly. 100 miles an hr down country roads was an experience I do not care to repeat.

I have no issues with drinking but best do it at home and not on the road driving at 4AM

**piczka** · December-07-14, 10:48 PM

Hopefully the Coney Islands will follow suit. Nobody wants to drive home on an empty stomach.

**downtownguy** · December-08-14, 02:41 PM

Back when I was more of a degenerate, as Cliffy would call me, I closed plenty of bars at 2am. While I don't have that kind of energy any more, 2am -- especially on a weekend -- didn't seem that late. But I do recall just how scary it was to drive at that hour since so many drunks were on the road. By extending hours, and not forcing everybody out at 2, you can have a more orderly exit, and more time to allow a drunk to sober up.

**Mackinaw** · December-09-14, 01:31 PM

Drunk driving is a thoroughly established problem based on laziness, cheapness, selfishness, and every type of irresponsibility. The hour of last call won't change this. Seems the serious drunk idiots get down to business at 5pm and are out of their killer drives by midnight, anyway. Closing time regulations won't solve or otherwise affect any of this. Better education and awareness re alcoholism; more common sense re calling cabs/ubers; stronger traffic policing on city streets [[and highways); stiffer sentences and license revokations; and more transit, are all good ways to solve the many concerns raised above.

Don't have strong feelings about 4am closing time, but I am willing to get behind and will cross my fingers that this leads to more people out and about having good clean fun after midnight. A bar may still close at 1, 2, or 3 if it chooses. It is only an option. My support for this would decline if there is any traceable uptick in drunken shootings/stabbings late at night...while this can never be fully prevented, it's not something that should be commonplace anywhere in the city, especially downtown.

**sumas** · December-09-14, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by piczka

Hopefully the Coney Islands will follow suit. Nobody wants to drive home on an empty stomach.

At a police community event they listed 6 places one is most likely to be robbed. Coneys after hours were on that list.
4 AM doesn't bother me. I just won't be there. But hard to believe it will do much for Detroit economy. Just heap more hate on Detroit. Sadly now I want a Coney.

**maverick1** · December-09-14, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by piczka

Hopefully the Coney Islands will follow suit. Nobody wants to drive home on an empty stomach.

Coney Islands in the city have always been open 24hrs. That's the main place everyone goes to eat after 2AM.

**G-DDT** · December-10-14, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Don't take comments too much to heart. Lots of idiots on the board these days. Me, "i am a happy idiot". Opinions are just that, everyone is entitled to them. Most of them ridiculous as no doubt are mine.

Didn't much like being called third class as a Detroit resident but then they don't have the rich experiences I enjoy each day. I fight my battles where I find them but my life is quite happy in the D.

Toadstool might have been a better insult.

No. no name calling, at all, please. I only take umbridge at the "third world city" comment or who deserves to be civilly engineered to drink when nonsense. Personally, I and everyone [[and I knew no one to the overt contrary) I knew in Detroit didn't want any of the Casinos when it was up for vote. Yet, we got them. We got little economical boost [[versus what we were promised), a lot of property imposition, a lot of cheapening of our culture and standards, more cocaine and prostitution, more ads on T.V. for gambling-addiction recovery, a lot of job turnover from folks who found out working for them sucks, and they require a lot of maintenance. Now, they're what helped hurt our city. I've only been dragged into those places twice. Do you know what I saw?: a freaked out Asian-American woman at a Blackjack table going "C'mon c'mon c'mon", and my own friend who dragged me there for my birthday, only to shoo me away from her slot-addiction because I was "jinxing her" [[yeah, "happy f---in' birthday" to me).
When, I saw Detroityes, I was praying that this was a forum that was a tad more responsible and balanced than other sites [[which is why, in disgust I avoid the others and I am not as-thankfully-versed in their customs or ways). I wanted to address issues, recall memories, and offer evidence and perspectives for edging us towards a host of solutions [[even if I come off skeptical, seditious, and suburbanphobic), I sadly found that on certain topics all the wrong personalities represent. I couldn't put my finger on it. Last night, it came to me: those very mentalities that jingoistically praised casinos or the "field of schemes" that tears down one stadium to erect another [[and all of the other ideologies and view points that seem to run in tandem with such a mentality) are all on the opposite side of the divide that I am on here. It sounds Seinfeldian and abstract, but it just seems where the line is drawn and what this all caters to. Where are the scores of folks who were with me on dissing the casinos?
Simply put, I am not finding folks on my page, and it's disgusting me more and more....maybe that's how it is planned to be. One big discouragement.

**Gistok** · December-10-14, 07:33 PM

G-DDT... I've been on this forum for 14 years... and if there's one thing I've learned... you're not going to find folks who have the exact same mindset as you do. There are the preservationists, the transportationists... the urbanists... and even suburbanists [[the ones who don't like city life). You'll be hard pressed to find a lot of people that think in lock step to what you think.

My viewpoint on the casinos is mixed... they ARE fortresses unto themselves...although Dan Gilbert is working to change that with turning the stretch of downtown from Campus Martius to Greektown into a contiguous entertainment district. Kudos for that.

As for MotorCity and MGM... yes they are fortresses... but they each have saved an otherwised doomed building from demolition [[old IRS Building and Wonderbread [[former Wagner) Bakery Building). Also they do bring some life back to a desolate part of the city.

Now as to the social ills that casinos bring... my viewpoint is that we have many "flawed" people going to them... and these people would likely go to Windsor or one of the Indian casinos if the Detroit casinos were never built. So the Detroit casinos didn't create a problem... that already existed with these people with issues.

The 3 casinos bring in an enormous amount of revenue to the money strapped city, as well as the state. This money would have gone to other gaming sources, if the city did not get them.

As to employees... I know two employees at MotorCity... who like their jobs. Yes they complain at times... but who has a job without some complaints. These 2 are happy to be working there.