'Fight for $15' wage protests across metro Detroit

[313WX]

So since the young man says he went through a culinary program at VoTech, he isn't worth a look?

There are ton of businesses who think the students who recently graduated college without experience are not worth a look.

It's a buyer's [[read: employer's) market and they know someone who's less risky of a hire [[I.E. a more experienced employee) will come along.

Again, I don't agree with this. But that's the way it is.

[313WX]

I resent that comment, a nice wellspoken, well dressed young man wanted an app. Culinary training too. Un Experienced perhaps but everyone needs a start somewhere, to assume under educated is purely conjecture. Keep up the hate Detroit crap. Try faulting DPS, not the kids. By the way the diner/coney does a stellar business.

No one's trying to assign fault to anything or anyone. It's just the way it is. Businesses don't care about giving someone a start somewhere, but staying in business. It shouldn't be taken personal.

The guy's best bet would be to look on Craigslist or another job site online and try to find restaurants in the suburbs that are hiring [[where there are relatively fewer people to compete with for jobs and businesses are making enough money to create jobs), if they have transportation to get there.

[313WX]

sumas, why don't you ask this business owner why he turned away the young man?

I'm sure he'll give you the same answer I did. I'm sure they're not an evil person and wish ill-will on the young man.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

So are economists, the Obama Administration and the NY Times all lying?

From yesterday-
Big Job Gains and Rising Pay in Labor Data
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/06/bu...t-figures.html

The U.S. economy, right now, is the envy of the developed word. Western Europe and Japan are a mess in 2014. Even Germany is now in recession.

And inflation has been very, very low in recent years. Even if wages were stagnant, it isn't like you're falling behind if inflation is near 0.

ALL administrations skew the numbers to make themselves look good. I don't believe everything the government tells me, never will. But you can believe what you want. if you want to agree with those stats the government puts out, more power to you. Reality shows that everyone isn't benefitting from those numbers.

[aj3647]

You think in the day and age of "hand-dipped", baristas, and "freshly grilled", what the American consumer really wants is 50 cent hamburgers from a robot? That's such an outdated concept

If they want the former, they're not going to McDonalds anyways. They are going to Chipotle or Potbelly or some place like that. People go to McDonalds [[by the millions) because they want CHEAP food FAST. That's it and that's all. Do you think the average fat schlub ordering his two McDoubles gives a fat flying fuck if he interacts with a human or a robot or an alien from Mars for that matter? Nope, he just wants his 900 calories for $2.

[LeannaM]

$15/hour seems like a lot. There are many [[from my experience) positions that require at least a Bachelor's Degree and don't pay that much. Perhaps help these people with grants so they can to college and get a job that pays $15/hour.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying them [[and waitresses) more, but not $15/hour.

By my calculations, someone working 40 hours a week [[though some fast food workers are part-time and have odd hours) and making $15/hour will make about $28,000/year. That's more than a first-year teacher where I live. It's also more than most people make in degrees like journalism. Both of those professions require at least a Bachelor's degree. That's also probably more than an EMT/Paramedic makes. Firefighters [[those who aren't volunteer) may make about that much. To me, if you're making $15/hour you need to have some type of education or special skill or be in a dangerous job. Fast food is none of those.

[LeannaM]

Also, if fast food workers make more than the fast food companies will probably up prices. That couldn't be good for their business. Companies that don't make as much profit usually hire fewer people or fire some that they have.

[Wesley Mouch]

$15/hour seems like a lot. There are many [[from my experience) positions that require at least a Bachelor's Degree and don't pay that much. Perhaps help these people with grants so they can to college and get a job that pays $15/hour.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying them [[and waitresses) more, but not $15/hour.

The question shouldn't be whether $15 is enough -- its not. The question is who gets to set wages and prices.

The vast majority of minimum wage workers are over 200% of the poverty line*. An increase in minimum wage pays the kids of rich doctors in B'ham more for working at Whole Foods. This is a terrible way to help the poor. Four out of five minimum wage workers are NOT POOR.

*previously cited Bookings Institution document

[sumas]

sumas, why don't you ask this business owner why he turned away the young man?

I'm sure he'll give you the same answer I did. I'm sure they're not an evil person and wish ill-will on the young man.

Actually I did. I wanted him to get a chance. We know everyone in the place. The lead waitress in the place whose skill set is she's boffing the owner. Now that is some skill set. No chance for black kid who isn't foreign born. I won't go back. But I forget. Detroit kids are "3rd class". Don't get me started. Plenty of Detroit kids are bright and articulate.

As a community we have worked with several businesses to hire local with a great degree of success. I am proud to be a part of that activism.

[Dan Wesson]

There was a time when a family could get by with one breadwinner in the family. Then it became two breadwinners and it is now appraoching three.

Why is it ok and even desirable for asset, price inflation but not wage inflation.

Stagflation or worse "wage deflation" is happening to the middle class today and in the past.

[313WX]

Actually I did. I wanted him to get a chance. We know everyone in the place. The lead waitress in the place whose skill set is she's boffing the owner. Now that is some skill set. No chance for black kid who isn't foreign born. I won't go back. But I forget. Detroit kids are "3rd class". Don't get me started. Plenty of Detroit kids are bright and articulate.

Well if you ask me, I think the kid is better off not having to work for that particular owner if he's racist and only thinks with his dick as you claim [[no shortage of low-brow people like that in Detroit nor the world).

In any event, the fact is kids in Detroit have no choice but to work much harder than their peers in the suburbs and the rest of the country to establish their own footing in life and escape a life of poverty/crime, despite the fact they were born and raised into this mess through no fault of their own. Most folks aren't going to lend these kids a hand either.

This 19 year old kid you discuss will realize this too as he comes of age during Detroit's darkest years yet...

[sumas]

Well if you ask me, I think the kid is better off not having to work for that particular owner if he's racist and only thinks with his dick as you claim [[no shortage of low-brow people like that in Detroit nor the world).

In any event, the fact is kids in Detroit have no choice but to work much harder than their peers in the suburbs and the rest of the country to establish their own footing in life and escape a life of poverty/crime, despite the fact they were born and raised into this mess through no fault of their own. Most folks aren't going to lend these kids a hand either.

This 19 year old kid you discuss will realize this too as he comes of age during Detroit's darkest years yet...

There are plenty of people who care. Maybe we are not always right but efforts and love mean a lot to so many. We house a homeless man. While here He got his GED, a drivers licence and the only fucking job he could get was dish washer at a trendy place in the burbs .Buses to work, never misses a day. He is upstanding, no criminal record. $9.75 an hr. He hopes to find his own place in January. Doubt that happens. He deserves better. Increase minimum wage to something decent. The man deserves his own place/space.

[Kevgoblue]

So.... no one is asking the real question. Why are so many grownups working at fast food restaurants?

[Hermod]

I'm no economist, but I think this proposed increase would ultimately be a bad thing for the workers who are pushing for it. $15/hour is a decent wage. Certainly not great, but somewhat decent. If fast food wages were increased to this level, those jobs would be more sought-after by a lot more people. Much more qualified candidates would apply for those jobs, and they would get them above the less qualified workers who currently have those positions filled. More of those employees would be squeezed out and lose their jobs. It would seem to be a little ironic that the $15/hour would actually result in less job security for them. Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't that seem likely?

It is hard to have fast food with half-fast workers.

[Hermod]

Doom indeed!

I think we all agree that we want low-wage workers to do better. There are some right-wing zealots [[with whom I think I get lumped) who dont' care about them. But I do. I actually am a libertarian-socialist.

The question is what's the right tool.

We've lived with a minimum-wage at a low [[and falling) level, and that's not caused us too much grief. So do we increase this, or are there better ways?

Yes -- the better way is an expansion of the Earned Income Credit. This gets you money into the hands of the working poor, which not distorting the market.

As you point out, if you nearly double the minimum wage, there will be a lot of unintended consequences. You may see more rich retirees taking jobs at McD, for example, squeezing out the real working poor. Only an example. But once you move to government set wages and prices, the world gets funny fast.

The experiments in a few jurisdictions will be interesting to watch.

Helping the working poor isn't just giving them more money. It also means having access to reasonably priced housing and food. Can we also dictate the grocery stores not pass on the wage costs to urban consumers?

The minimum wage initiative may be well-intentioned. But it will cause a great deal of harm to those you are trying to help.

Yes, in military towns, every time congress raised the Basic Allowance for Quarters [[BAQ), the landlords would raise the rent by an equivalent percentage.

[248lurker]

The state minimum wage is set to go up to 9.25 between now and 1/1/2018 via incremental increases. [ http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,...0972--,00.html ] Although it's not mentioned on the page, I also thought it was slated to be adjusted for inflation after that.

This is a far cry from the $15/hour being demanded [[which for someone working 40 hours a week for a year is $31 200 before taxes), but this is a step in the right direction.

[Wesley Mouch]

There are plenty of people who care. Maybe we are not always right but efforts and love mean a lot to so many. We house a homeless man. While here He got his GED, a drivers licence and the only fucking job he could get was dish washer at a trendy place in the burbs .Buses to work, never misses a day. He is upstanding, no criminal record. $9.75 an hr. He hopes to find his own place in January. Doubt that happens. He deserves better. Increase minimum wage to something decent. The man deserves his own place/space.

If the MW was $15.00, he might not have got that job. The minimum wage hurts the poor, by shifting that opportunity to more qualified and experienced people. I am all in favor of giving anyone working for $9.75 a tax credit [[paid weekly on his check) to help. I think we owe that as a society. And then the money will go to the truly needy, not to rich kids and retirees working second jobs to keep busy in-between getting their Merrill-Lynch statements.

[Hermod]

Nain, I get your point. But I guess I'll throw in two things:

1. Who is going to set the wages? The government, or the people who start/run businesses? I'm not going to argue that all regulation is bad regulation, but when it comes to wages, government fiat isn't the best way to set them.

2. The best thing that can happen to low wage employees is to have a labor shortage. If you have a job, want a raise, and are denying, your life only improves if you can find another job that will give you one. The level of job growth in this country has been poor since 2008, and that's [[in my humble opinion) the largest driver of wage stagnation.

BINGO!

The big growth in working class wages began in the 1920s when the government squeezed immigration down to a trickle. The low birthrate of the depression also lowered the number of new workers coming on line each year in the 1950s. The US essentially had a labor shortage. Law of supply and demand says that wages will go up dramatically in that environment.

By the late 1960s, the baby boomers began to come into the work force in large numbers and the immigration gates were opened wide. The sudden boom in labor availability came just as the number of jobs was decreasing due to automation and off-shoring.

Think of the local service station. Two warm bodies on the lube rack, a couple of mechanics, a couple of pump jockeys, and a guy in the office. Now it is all run by a single counter guy in the food section and everyone pumps their own gas [[plus cars now don't need a lube and oil change every 3,000 miles).

[rex]

People shouldnt eat that garbage anyways. There should be a tenth of a percent tax placed on every order with the procedes going into an account that the owners cant touch and gets split among employees on a weekly basis. If you take a check you get half what someone gets that puts it toward tuition. Single moms get more too

[sumas]

People shouldnt eat that garbage anyways. There should be a tenth of a percent tax placed on every order with the procedes going into an account that the owners cant touch and gets split among employees on a weekly basis. If you take a check you get half what someone gets that puts it toward tuition. Single moms get more too

Rex is right, people should not eat that junk. I admit maybe 3 or 4 times a year I really like that sausage cheese biscuit and that fried hash brown. We are not vegetarian but do eat very little meat. Our grown sons are vegetarian since their teens. So when they visit. I cook. can cook. that way easily. I just want to know that when we eat out, our money goes to businesses that compensate employees adequately. Very pleased our preferred local market is now employing many area residents. Its important to us. People like to diss Detroit and it is so wrong. Our area kids are charming. Certainly many have challenges but need a shot at a decent life going forward

[aj3647]

Rex is right, people should not eat that junk.

You want them to employ 300,000 people at $15 an hour [[or more)...but you don't think anyone should buy their product.

[Willi]

NO ONE will be buying much of anything produced in America when the Labor costs $$$ across the nation are elevated to ridiculously high levels.

Some jobs are NOT worth $400 a week, and many mass produced widgets, chachkeys, etc. etc. need to remain low priced for industry in USA to survive

[sumas]

You want them to employ 300,000 people at $15 an hour [[or more)...but you don't think anyone should buy their product.

Do not be stupid. This thread is about living wages not fast food.

[aj3647]

Do not be stupid.

I doubt you will recognize the irony of that statement.

[sumas]

I doubt you will recognize the irony of that statement.

Thank you for the insult. I am a little slow on the uptake these days but now I really understand why no DY picnic this year. Most of you I don't want to know