Why not Detroit? [Ferguson Aftermath Demonstrations]

[Johnnny5]

Then the officer shot him over 10 times because as he shot him, he wouldn't stop running at him. Seriously. Was this Brown kid practicing for Night of the Living dead where you had to shoot the vampires in the head or they kept on coming at you. I have no faith in the legal system in Missouri. Sounds like a bunch of Republican Rednecks.

I know I've mentioned this before on this site, but please remember that this was real life and not a Hollywood movie. This likely happened in seconds and a man that stood 6'6" and close to 300lbs could have easily been alive and still advancing even after being shot many times.

[iheartthed]

It was a racially mixed jury in a majority Democrat county, so your scenario sounds far-fetched.

Not really. It was composed of 9 people who were identified/self-identified as white and 3 who were identified/self-identified as black. In Missouri, 9 jurors of 12 need to vote in favor of indictment. Assuming all black jurors blindly voted for indictment you would still need to convince 2/3rds of the white jurors [[6) to vote in favor of the indictment. So that say that it was a racially mixed jury really means nothing.

[Cliffy]

It was a racially mixed jury in a majority Democrat county, so your scenario sounds far-fetched.

And the President and US Attorney General aren't "White Republican males who are shills to corporations and police"; in fact our AG is a black civil rights attorney. So why no federal indictment?

You obviously haven't paid any attention to what is going on. First off, the grand jury evidence was dumped on them without the prosecutor even attempting to pursuit charges. Second I have no clue what a county in St. Louis has to do with Obama. And who says there will not be a federal indictment. This thread is out of your league man. Sorry to say. If you were following the obvious in what was happening, you wouldn't be making those silly points.

[Cliffy]

https://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-fede...134942645.html

Some crazy stuff going down there in the White South. I still get a chuckle that the medical legal examiner showed up at the scene and didn't take pictures which is a standard procedure because the batteries were dead in the camera. Seriously. Like they couldn't call someone up with a second camera at the office or spare batteries. This is a blatant coverup.

[G-DDT]

Finally, how the police handle things in this country. If one studies their history, all the men of power and prestige were once the top cruelest robber-barons, the winners write the popular history, and the police were just the thuig-squad/gang that won out in decorated position. Again, I'm going to stress, I agree with John Oliver that not all cops are like what I'm going to unload here but-
Our police force claims to protect the innocent, uphold the law, and serve the public trust. Yet, the way tactics are run by higher-ups, and the defensive strategies taught at F.O.P. seminars, the police have become dogs who harass folks, plant evidence, bully folks, work in collusion to set people up and incriminate folks [[the very beginning to "Down by Law" should explain this well). Just see how the police were employed in the interest of the companies during all the union struggles of the late 1800's and early 20th century. See how they were in the south under "Bull" Connor during the civil rights movements of the '50s and '60s. See how the cops "preserved disorder" during the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention. I didn't see cops spraying Channel #5 on kneeling passive Occupiers three years ago.
Let's see: New York cops unload a barrage of bullets into the car of an African American leaving a stripclub, Lt. Tom Davidson of Lafayette, IN knocks a paraplegic in a wheelchair over for having a pocket knife, David Diaz of L.A. captures a CHP officer brutally assailing a woman with punches on the freeway, Jorge Azucena dies in police custody with an asthma attack [[but it wasn't asthma that smothered Eric Garner for getting caught selling loose cigarettes). Victor White III [[who cops said shot himself in the head with his hands handcuffed behind his back in a the back of a squad car), Chavis Carter, Jesus Huerta-all questionable suicides of men in police custody. Philedelphia cops like to drop bombs on the homes of suspected "cultists". Anyone in and around Cincinnati would know just how absolutely violent and racist the police are there [[yeah, shooting rubber bullets point blank at women and children protesting a police-brutality based death-not becoming of an agency trying to establish decent community relations.)
Personally, I've encountered some decent police [[usually Indiana State police versus the city kind or maybe in Illinois or Kentucky), however, for every one of them, I see fifty bad examples.
I have had far too many times where I'd be walking on a long vacant stretch of farmland road for three hours, no motorists passing by me, no nearby farms or residences to spot me, only wilderness or maybe the occasional distant industrial facilities. A wandering police car pulls me over, searches me, and runs my I.D. When I ask what this is about they all say the same thing: "oh, just a concerned motorist driving by saw you a half hour ago and phoned it in" [[total lie-as I said: vacant for a long while). Some of them will give you a ride to the next county, but in hindsight, it's not because they are doing you a favor, it's because they are just getting you out of their jurisdiction.
I knew ex-Marine Larry Noles of Louisville, KY. I was in a Dorm Residency program with him. He was well-dressed and soft-spoken, and when I bought him a can of oysters and crackers to try out his new birthday dentures, he reciprocated with some clean socks [[a truly kind gesture if you are homeless and trying to survive), and that was all I can say. Howver, when I first heard the initial reports that this well-dressed man was found a few years later by Louisville police wandering naked and out of his mind [[like someone slipped him Jimson Weed) and deserved to be tazed to death [[bad heart) for being a "naked threat". I couldn't believe it. Typical of all things I find on line, the media bias [[which was balanced on microfiche articles I dug up) eventually switched from fair to making Larry Noles out to be a raving maniac. I knew him better than that, and any a--hole who wants to make a disparaging comment to the contrary is choosing to be an abusive dog-nasty troll [[which wouldn't surprise me from what I've seen of the picking on here so far).
Want to get biblical about all of it?: John the Baptist told the law-enforcers of his time what they needed to do: Be content with your wages, do no violence to any man, and do not falsely accuse anyone. This leaves no foothold for the hideous behavior [[the shakedowns, the bribes, the hostile testimony and incriminating, the evidence planting, the coercion and harassment, the brutality, etc.) I see of the modern American police force. We live in a society engineered by fear. We buy into this "illusion of security" notion to protect us from the fear of crime, germs, terrorists, or becoming a inadequate parent that is hoisted up on us before we can say "with a capitol "T" that rhymes with "P" and stands for pool." I sincerely urge anyone who wants to get hostile with me about it [[as you have with others) to truly examine all I've exhaustively hand-jammed here and consider the matter carefully. Better still, read "Actual Innocence" [[Barry Scheck, Peter Neufeld, Jim Dwyer) or the listings of police brutality killings in "Stolen Lives" [[not the one about the Middle East skirmishes). In all fairness, I think it odd when the media blows up the incidents of police brutality and the rioting as if this the only path we have to walk. Civil disobedience, fastings [[didn't see that during the evangelical trumpeting of Terry Schiavo's intended martyrdom to bolster a "take-back-America" tactic), boycotts, keeping the lines of communication open, purging out the violent elements, and staying non-violent are the key. Releasing a statement of verdict at night and close-ups of burning McDonalds were what the powers that be wanted. Rioting is playing right into "their" hands as Jello Biafra warned.
My family moved into a rental in Dearborn after a bankrupcy-I wish I could say we were back in Detroit, but I have no say in it, at this time. If anyone has a problem of all that I wrote, then try to be a human being of decency and address the topics, not make any personal attacks on who I am [[or anyone else) or where I live and why I live there. That's all I will say of this all. Peace.

[RickBeall]

Plainly, they could find something to burn down in Detroit.

[Willi]

It is easy to avoid the police
Live a clean life, decent friends associates etc

[iheartthed]

It is easy to avoid the police
Live a clean life, decent friends associates etc

No, it really isn't.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014...eath-suit?lite

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justic...oper-shooting/

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/11/...uled-homicide/

[Johnnny5]

It is easy to avoid the police
Live a clean life, decent friends associates etc

It's rather easy for me now that I'm in my 30's, but I clearly remember it not being so easy when I was Michael Brown's age. I lived through it, but I had an upbringing that taught me to respect the authority of the police even in instances where they were in the wrong. Whether you're white or black, young or old refusing orders from a guy with a badge and holding a gun isn't a wise idea.

[iheartthed]

Whether you're white or black, young or old refusing orders from a guy with a badge and a gun isn't a wise idea.

So what responsibility does the guy with a badge and a gun have for restraining himself when dealing with unarmed individuals with big mouths?

[Wesley Mouch]

So what responsibility does the guy with a badge and a gun have for restraining himself when dealing with unarmed individuals with big mouths?

Do you think being unarmed means he was no threat to P.O. Wilson? Wilson had just been assaulted while INSIDE his car and sustained injuries. Now he's supposed to let a somewhat larger man assault him again by letting him continue to approach him?

In general, having been through some training in this, it is appropriate to use reasonable force to defend yourself. Brown by assaulting Wilson showed his intent and ability to do harm. Wilson had the responsibility to act. Now if you want to ask why he didn't use his tazer, that's a fair question.

[iheartthed]

Do you think being unarmed means he was no threat to P.O. Wilson? Wilson had just been assaulted while INSIDE his car and sustained injuries. Now he's supposed to let a somewhat larger man assault him again by letting him continue to approach him?

According to the cop, after he had several weeks to put his story together, that is what happened. Of course, there is a lot about his recalling of the events that don't square up, and would probably be intensely scrutinized if this had actually gone to trial.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/728116...ide/in/7041840

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...wns-friend-saw

[Gpwrangler]

So what responsibility does the guy with a badge and a gun have for restraining himself when dealing with unarmed individuals with big mouths?

What would you do if someone reached into your car during an altercation? Would you suspect that they meant to harm you? Just curious.

[iheartthed]

What would you do if someone reached into your car during an altercation? Would you suspect that they meant to harm you? Just curious.

It's not really germane to the discussion.

[Wesley Mouch]

According to the cop, after he had several weeks to put his story together, that is what happened. Of course, there is a lot about his recalling of the events that don't square up, and would probably be intensely scrutinized if this had actually gone to trial.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/728116...ide/in/7041840

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...wns-friend-saw

I'll agree with you that both stories [[Wilson & Johnson) are a little hard to believe in every detail. But that's what happens in situations like this.

You can hang your hat on Vox's quotes from Johnson's story, but Johnson's story is inconsistent with the actual testimony of most every other witness -- mostly black witnesses too -- on many points. Doesn't mean he's wrong -- but one opinion contradicted by several more solid accounts doesn't mean there's evidence to support charges against Wilson.

I've read several of the accounts, and you have to stretch most of them to believe that Brown was not the aggressor. Most say it clearly. But this wasn't a trial. A group of 12 random jurors from a democratic county were pre-selected for a random grand jury didn't believe Johnson's account enough to charge Wilson. At trail, after 15 people described a different story. Johnson's story would likely have been ignored by the judge and jury.

Oh, and Wilson's story was taken 'immediately' --- per Vox. "But on Monday night, St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch released the evidence given to the grand jury, including the interview police did with Wilson in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. And so we got to read, for the first time, Wilson's full, immediate account of his altercation with Brown."

[Scottathew]

What I don't get is how people are completely overlooking the robbery at the liquor store. Michael Brown was not a good kid. He was a punk.

Who do you believe, the guy with the badge? Or the guy on video that robbed the liquor store minutes before his death?

I certainly can believe that the punk I saw in the video robbing the liquor store assaulted the police office and tried to take his gun. It was the first thing he tried to take from someone today.

The biggest threat to the young black man is the young black man. It doesn't mean we shouldn't stop worrying about racially motivated police violence, but all the noise and efforts are being spent in the wrong place.

[sumas]

So much Detroit slamming keeps up. I have seen a few weird things but the 7th precinct is in line with community and response time. I honor our police for a very thankless job.

[iheartthed]

What I don't get is how people are completely overlooking the robbery at the liquor store. Michael Brown was not a good kid. He was a punk.

Who do you believe, the guy with the badge? Or the guy on video that robbed the liquor store minutes before his death?

I certainly can believe that the punk I saw in the video robbing the liquor store assaulted the police office and tried to take his gun. It was the first thing he tried to take from someone today.

The biggest threat to the young black man is the young black man. It doesn't mean we shouldn't stop worrying about racially motivated police violence, but all the noise and efforts are being spent in the wrong place.

Frankly, I could not give any less of a fuck about him stealing cigarettes from a party store.

[Gpwrangler]

It's not really germane to the discussion.

Sounds like none of the facts are to you.

[iheartthed]

Sounds like none of the facts are to you.

I actually don't think you know what the word "fact" even means, demonstrated by your back and forth with another person in this thread. You shouldn't use words that you do not understand.

That was an opinion, by the way.

[Wesley Mouch]

What I don't get is how people are completely overlooking the robbery at the liquor store. Michael Brown was not a good kid. He was a punk.

Who do you believe, the guy with the badge? Or the guy on video that robbed the liquor store minutes before his death?

I certainly can believe that the punk I saw in the video robbing the liquor store assaulted the police office and tried to take his gun. It was the first thing he tried to take from someone today.

The biggest threat to the young black man is the young black man. It doesn't mean we shouldn't stop worrying about racially motivated police violence, but all the noise and efforts are being spent in the wrong place.

The robbery is only marginally relevant. It wasn't violent. And while I speaks to Mr. Brown's lack of character, it doesn't make him 'deserve to die'.

It appears that his death was because he got into a fight with a cop, and even after being shot could not stop threatening actions.

It is almost forgotten that the main reason this criminal's death was an issue was that the initial reports were that he had raised his hands above his head in surrender. Almost universally, the witnesses say this did not happen.

[DetroitBoy]

Oh yes, it is germane. If you attack someone, you expect a response. If you are dumb enough to do it to a police officer then you take your chances on the outcome. The officer had no way to know this man was unarmed. He was attacked in his squad car. He pursued the man who continually disobeyed direct orders and he was shot as a result. You don't fight the law and expect they will indulge you with their response. If you have been raised with a clear sense of right and wrong behavior, you understand this point.

[Gpwrangler]

I actually don't think you know what the word "fact" even means, demonstrated by your back and forth with another person in this thread. You shouldn't use words that you do not understand.

That was an opinion, by the way.

Thanks for the advice. Your opinion is the only correct one I'm sure.

[Zacha341]

Uh, the theft to and rousting of the merchant as not a spa massage with scented candles. It was at minimal 'strong-arm' treatment. Not a good time. Having known family and friends that have been treated and snatched up like that [[robberies and intimidation) that I'd say indeed it IS violent.

The robbery is only marginally relevant. It wasn't violent. And while I speaks to Mr. Brown's lack of character, it doesn't make him 'deserve to die'.

[Scottathew]

Frankly, I could not give any less of a fuck about him stealing cigarettes from a party store.

It's a very relevant fact as to his state of mind, his character, and whether or not he'd be up for grabbing at a cop's gun.

But let's ignore facts as we make a robbing thug our lord and savior that we're willing to burn down cities for.