Why not Detroit? [Ferguson Aftermath Demonstrations]

[sumas]

This has got to be the most racist post I have read since I joined DetroitYes a few months ago. I hope you are able find a way to cleanse yourself of some of the hatred you are spewing in this post.

Racist? Moi? Please expound. I live in a predominate black community which has a proud heritage. 3rd, 4th generation even. Everyone related to everyone. I am pleased to be welcomed into such a fine community

[sumas]

Understood.

It just didn't seem right to call others out of their name because they realize how much Detroit's schools suck and were mobile enough to give their children better outside the city.

Sorry I don't mean to sound evil or vicious, I am neither. I really just love this city, our history and all it entails. So much is wrong but to discuss it causes swarms to come and try to kick a dead dog. The dog is not dead. I just get angry at so much anti Detroit sentiment. Sorry!

[Dan Wesson]

@sumas....why are you filled with so much distain towards people who move away from Detroit?

Sumas be Trollin'.

Pure and simple...

[Zacha341]

I must say it IS getting to the TMI personal level beyond the original subject......

Oh my this is terrible. Time out everyone.

[Zacha341]

Back to the subject:

Protest. That is one thing within reason - I can get to that. RIOTING!?? In Detroit? Sh#*it!!! We need a riot like... well I can't think of nothing! We cannot spare any of our own few businesses or grocery stores etc. remaining to be burn down or looted.

Cynical view I suppose, but I don't see how destroying your own community properties, businesses and stores serves much re. the verdict or concern for Michael Brown or his family. Nope. I'm not feeling the urge or the surge.

Now this is way too getting out of hand. Let's see what happens if they somehow make it to 12th and Clairmount. Will it be 1967 all over again?

[Zacha341]

Here's protest coverage from Mlive [[the 'comment' section to the article is interesting too):

Ferguson protests in Detroit: Five arrested for disorderly conduct, police confirm

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...detroit_f.html

[mikeg19]

What's happening in Ferguson isn't protesting. That went out the window the second that Brown's step dad started yelling "we're gonna burn this bitch down" in the courtroom. What they are doing is just rioting. People think they have the right to protest, and living in this fantastic nation, we do......Peacefully. Smashing up cars and burning half the city down while looting the local AutoZone ain't part of the First Amendment. People tend to think that they have the right to do whatever the fuck they want because they live in America. Are we ever going to learn that violence doesn't condone more violence?

[Gpwrangler]

Anyhow, I for one am glad that these protests are not catching on here in Michigan and especially glad to not hear of any violence or rioting. In Ferguson dozens of buildings have been burned, acts violence commited against officers and civilians and perhaps worst of all I just read that the church of Michael Brown's father has been torched in the aftermath. These violent and senseless actions have nothing to do with improving the relationship between the police and the community and everything to do with opportunists just looking for a reason to cause problems and/or get attention.

Lets just be glad that police slowed traffic before the protesters walked onto I-94. I suppose when someone gets run over and killed, and the driver exonerated, there will be more problems, etc.

[Gpwrangler]

Let's just be clear that this isn't true.

let's just be clear that that is your opinion.

[Signman]

yes racism is alive and well on this forum, Non detroit people or detroit ex pats, Congratulate your selves You escaped. So proud you left. I mean that... you left like little weasels
Detroit is dealing quite well with race sex ordination .religious issues. I exalt in how the city has emerged as a true melting pot.

Yes, the whole nation is using us as a role model.
Exalt indeed.

[Wesley Mouch]

What's happening in Ferguson isn't protesting. That went out the window the second that Brown's step dad started yelling "we're gonna burn this bitch down" in the courtroom. What they are doing is just rioting. People think they have the right to protest, and living in this fantastic nation, we do......Peacefully. Smashing up cars and burning half the city down while looting the local AutoZone ain't part of the First Amendment. People tend to think that they have the right to do whatever the fuck they want because they live in America. Are we ever going to learn that violence doesn't condone more violence?

You win the MIP award [[most important post). The media certainly does not realize that the people who legitimately disagree with the Grand Jury's findings are mostly not the same people who are rioting.

Let me leap from that point and make an assertion.

Black America has not figured out how to 'make a point' without letting radicals control the agenda. And this is very counter-productive. I believe racism exists. But I also believe that it is much less of a factor that the radicals assume. Thus, its an insult to those who have 'cured' themselves of the affliction.

Sitting around the dinner table in Howell with your adopted black daughter and your racist father you hear the president say there's a problem between coommunities of color and law enforcement -- and you just think this guy has been locked up in the White House for too long.

The real story of race in American is not told by the few radical and protesters in Ferguson nor by the few racists in Wayne, Michigan. The real story is much bigger and much more complex -- and is mostly working itself out just fine -- and would be better if the loudmouths shut up and the rioters were squashed.

Black America does not know how to stop riots. Collectively, it needs to speak up against riots if it wishes to keep progress moving along. Ferguson moves it backwards a little bit. I hope Detroit can stay on the better path. And I think she will.

[Shai_Hulud]

You win the MIP award [[most important post). The media certainly does not realize that the people who legitimately disagree with the Grand Jury's findings are mostly not the same people who are rioting.

Let me leap from that point and make an assertion.

Black America has not figured out how to 'make a point' without letting radicals control the agenda. And this is very counter-productive. I believe racism exists. But I also believe that it is much less of a factor that the radicals assume. Thus, its an insult to those who have 'cured' themselves of the affliction.

Sitting around the dinner table in Howell with your adopted black daughter and your racist father you hear the president say there's a problem between coommunities of color and law enforcement -- and you just think this guy has been locked up in the White House for too long.

The real story of race in American is not told by the few radical and protesters in Ferguson nor by the few racists in Wayne, Michigan. The real story is much bigger and much more complex -- and is mostly working itself out just fine -- and would be better if the loudmouths shut up and the rioters were squashed.

Black America does not know how to stop riots. Collectively, it needs to speak up against riots if it wishes to keep progress moving along. Ferguson moves it backwards a little bit. I hope Detroit can stay on the better path. And I think she will.

I must have missed the memo when Black America became a monolithic political group.

[Wesley Mouch]

I must have missed the memo when Black America became a monolithic political group.

I believe there are radicals, rioters, and protesters -- and that they are different. Was a primary point in my post. I absolutely do not believe in monolitchic Black America. Quite the contrary.

This does not mean that Black America does not get lumped in a 'monolithic political group' by others. That also was my point.

As a group, I believe they have an inability to deal with radicals in their group. Yet as individuals, they hold diverse beliefs on the current state of racism.

Containment of radical thought and action is a challenge for all groups. The 'tea party' has the same problems with thought --- but a much smaller problem with radical action such as riots. Timothy McVeigh might be their version of a radical that does not represent them -- yet does hold much of the same ideology.

[Islandman]

Curious how the OP went from "why isn't Detroit protesting enough?" to "this is Black America's problem right here" with assumptions as to what race relations are currently, and how Black America is allowing their "points" to be made by a minority.

And to speak about radicals controlling the agenda, and media, without using the word white is pretty hilarious.


How many "radicals" do you think are in each camp, and what voice is listened to more intently by the majority of America?

Even the most progressive or to use your word, cured, white folks still have no clue what it's actually like to be affected by racism and its many forms. But yeah, keep telling us the problem is just a few wayward assholes in Wayne, MI.

And no one knows how to stop riots, white or black. Are you implying that whites know how to resolve their issues in more civilized forms of expression? Such as the tacit approval given for decades to groups such as the KKK, by the justice and legal system, to express themselves?

People are very quick to detail the trauma of the riots in Detroit, but whitewash the oppressive qualities, both legal and otherwise, that allowed the symptoms to finally manifest themselves into anarchy.

[mwilbert]

let's just be clear that that is your opinion.

No. A grand jury is, in fact, not a court of law. The prosecutor, in fact, controls what evidence is presented to the grand jury and what cross-examination is done. The procedures employed by the prosecutor in this case were, in fact, highly unusual. Grand juries, in fact, do indict the people prosecutors want them to more than 99% of time. None of that is an opinion.

[Wesley Mouch]

Curious how the OP went from "why isn't Detroit protesting enough?" to "this is Black America's problem right here" with assumptions as to what race relations are currently, and how Black America is allowing their "points" to be made by a minority.

And to speak about radicals controlling the agenda, and media, without using the word white is pretty hilarious.


How many "radicals" do you think are in each camp, and what voice is listened to more intently by the majority of America?

Even the most progressive or to use your word, cured, white folks still have no clue what it's actually like to be affected by racism and its many forms. But yeah, keep telling us the problem is just a few wayward assholes in Wayne, MI.

And no one knows how to stop riots, white or black. Are you implying that whites know how to resolve their issues in more civilized forms of expression? Such as the tacit approval given for decades to groups such as the KKK, by the justice and legal system, to express themselves?

People are very quick to detail the trauma of the riots in Detroit, but whitewash the oppressive qualities, both legal and otherwise, that allowed the symptoms to finally manifest themselves into anarchy.

If you want a 'dialog on race', then you may occasionally have to hear things you don't agree with. The dialog will go better if you respect diverse opinions and seek common ground, rather than attack me because I didn't agree with you.

To go back to the issues and away from personal attacks, I'll agree with you on the KKK. They were pretty much the same as the rioters in Ferguson. 'White America' has managed to marginalize bigoted white radicals and banished the KKK to the fringe. 'Black America' would do better to marginalize those who are calling for a lynching of P.O. Wilson, and rioting when they don't get the results they want.

Dialog isn't just hearing what you want to hear.

[G-DDT]

That's it! I can't contain it with you all! It is very obvious that the type of irregularly loaded contributors of irrational jingoist dissent who descend and swarm on every dang other comment site have chosen this thread and none other on yesdetroit to pad an issue and attack others for their choices and perspectives.
Here's the objective facts: Racism in Ferguson: anyone who did the research [[and for those who want a concise but albeit accurate assessment need to see what John Oliver addressed about Ferguson and how "over gunned" our police force really is): would know Ferguson has an almost all white police force, has an ugly history of violence [[Jaris Hayden raping woman in jail cell, the beating and charging of "damage to public property"-by-the-ensueing-bleeding to Henry Davis in 2009-not to mention the participating female cop who later got quite the lucrative promotion, afterwards), and all you need to do is see the video of the cop at the initial summer flare-ups saying "Bring it on, you animals".

[Gpwrangler]

No. A grand jury is, in fact, not a court of law. The prosecutor, in fact, controls what evidence is presented to the grand jury and what cross-examination is done. The procedures employed by the prosecutor in this case were, in fact, highly unusual. Grand juries, in fact, do indict the people prosecutors want them to more than 99% of time. None of that is an opinion.

Still your opinion. Not gonna argue with you either, as neither of us was there. Carry on.

[Wesley Mouch]

That's it! I can't contain it with you all! It is very obvious that the type of irregularly loaded contributors of irrational jingoist dissent who descend and swarm on every dang other comment site have chosen this thread and none other on yesdetroit to pad an issue and attack others for their choices and perspectives.
Here's the objective facts: Racism in Ferguson: anyone who did the research [[and for those who want a concise but albeit accurate assessment need to see what John Oliver addressed about Ferguson and how "over gunned" our police force really is): would know Ferguson has an almost all white police force, has an ugly history of violence [[Jaris Hayden raping woman in jail cell, the beating and charging of "damage to public property"-by-the-ensueing-bleeding to Henry Davis in 2009-not to mention the participating female cop who later got quite the lucrative promotion, afterwards), and all you need to do is see the video of the cop at the initial summer flare-ups saying "Bring it on, you animals".

Valid points. Doesn't excuse demands for the head of P.O. Wilson.

I accept your arguments on Ferguson. And in fact that's what I wanted to hear. Why Ferguson and not Detroit. Do you then think Detroit has handled race relations better than Ferguson?

[G-DDT]

Racism in Detroit: it is clearly here if we live in a city where African Americans have the highest death statistic, but even in death, they get no dignity, as I view a sea of smiling white faces every week in the obituaries of the two major newspapers in the "blackest city in America" [[oooh....see, you just got to look where the rubber meets the road, folks! The devil is in the details.-Ever been to a funeral for an African American where they pass the funeral donation plate more than once, pleading how much the family is going to need to handle the costs?). On every level, the segregative lines are clear by what businesses chose to be here or conduct themselves [[Century 21 was being devisive of what races to show homes in nice neighborhoods to not too long ago), how police patrol things [["N.I.L." in Livonia, "Spodas" in Sterling Heights, and "N.O.M.A.D." in Grosse Pointe, all racist codes used by cops to keep undesirables out), and not too mention the insane rhetoric I have to here from suburbanites all my life [[I've seen more confederate flags in the Downriver area, than in the entire year I lived in Kentucky-no lie!).
I'm going to agree with John Oliver about how clearly not every cop is bad, but they are few and far between. I've seen things I will never forget. I've seen corrupt cops sucking down nitrous oxide with hookers in Detroit afterhours, shaking down business owners, threatening underage party goers with physical violence, planting evidence on folks, showing a harassing bias against one venue owner on behalf of a competitor. Granted they aren't going to haul you in for something as stupid as having a small marijuana baggie in your car [[and many of my friends-way back when-got off scott-free in those situations), but when superbowl comes to town, they treat it like Florida, and start harassing, deporting, or [[in the case of Eric Williams killed by Jay Morningstar) erasing the homeless.
In fact, an article by Max Rivlin Nader sites how Detroit police were picking up homeless and relocating them to areas miles away-First Blood style. As an advocate for defending the rights of the homeless [[and a former homeless man, myself), not all panhandlers are homeless [[chances are they are POEs sent in by clandestine agencies to act up and give the homeless a bad name-don't believe me?-I've observed it happening far too many times, in a strategic way that goes beyond the mere happenstance of a grifter who nobody ever sees actually visit social service agencies, shelter, or soup kitchens. You will never get a better view of things than from the bottom. This is echoed by what The Clash said the truth was known by guttersnipes or the janitor in Breakfast Club. Which brings me to a quote from the book "Bury Me Standing" that states you can really judge a community by how it truly treats it's lowest class.), and not all homeless are violent, mentally ill folks on drugs. I can assure you many towns also do this suppression[[Louisville arrests anyone scrubby-looking with a backpack trying to walk to the neighborhood soup kitchen around Derby time). A past blog on Atdetroit addressing this show the comments on both sides [[and the ones dissing the homeless are just cruel and grotesque).
How quickly we forget that Grosse Pointe police humiliate a mentally challenged homeless man. How an elderly deaf man with a rake was shot dead, Yes-Aiyana Jones. Heck! put anyone in a uniform and you got guys getting killed at the Fairlane Lord & Taylor or smothered to death at the Northland Mall by over-zealous security. Voice of Detroit has a great article [[with a dumb title) with a listing of brutality in the last fifteen years here called "Detroit Police Sex Scandals".

[Islandman]

If you want a 'dialog on race', then you may occasionally have to hear things you don't agree with. The dialog will go better if you respect diverse opinions and seek common ground, rather than attack me because I didn't agree with you.

To go back to the issues and away from personal attacks, I'll agree with you on the KKK. They were pretty much the same as the rioters in Ferguson. 'White America' has managed to marginalize bigoted white radicals and banished the KKK to the fringe. 'Black America' would do better to marginalize those who are calling for a lynching of P.O. Wilson, and rioting when they don't get the results they want.

Dialog isn't just hearing what you want to hear.

I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking the generalizations you were using. And also the double standard that has been prevalent in our society. Radical groups such as the KKK were allowed to run rampant, since 1865, terrorizing, killing, etc. without any worry of legal repercussions in many parts of this country. In contrast, the Black Panthers, another radical group, formed in 1966 and within 3 years were labeled by Hoover to be "the greatest threat to internal security of the country". t

So the formation of one radical group in this country garners a completely different response in our justice and legal system. While this may be just one example, how can you criticize the outcomes, or manner of protest, when most times in this nation's history leave you basically ignored and isolated?

I also wanted to say I do not condone or agree with rioting and/or looting, but I can also see that it often take this for the majority to take notice and start the dialogue.

[Cliffy]

I kept an open mind about the case but when I heard the officer speak yesterday, I have to imagine that the grand jury was full of White Republican Males who are shills to corporations and police. How a 6 foot 4 cop was suddenly chasing this kid who may have been a little bigger and then all of a sudden he turned around and started chasing the officer HA! Then the officer shot him over 10 times because as he shot him, he wouldn't stop running at him. Seriously. Was this Brown kid practicing for Night of the Living dead where you had to shoot the vampires in the head or they kept on coming at you. I have no faith in the legal system in Missouri. Sounds like a bunch of Republican Rednecks.

[Hypestyles]

DPD just barely got out from under a federal consent agreement. I'd say the city police department is far from having any sort of ideal relationship with local residents. Publicized raids get big press; less press is reserved for the recent departmental shakeups regarding missing evidence/drugs, etc.

[Bham1982]

I kept an open mind about the case but when I heard the officer speak yesterday, I have to imagine that the grand jury was full of White Republican Males who are shills to corporations and police.

It was a racially mixed jury in a majority Democrat county, so your scenario sounds far-fetched.

And the President and US Attorney General aren't "White Republican males who are shills to corporations and police"; in fact our AG is a black civil rights attorney. So why no federal indictment?

[G-DDT]

Racism in this country: is clearly here. I don't see conservatives dissing Obama for praising Reagan during his 2008 campaign, chasing off dissidents and whistleblowers, assassinating political threats, twiddling his thumbs during the BP oil spill, and drinking toasts at the Alfalfa Club; these are all things they would praise. They put Hitler mustaches on him, hang him in effigy in front of Florida churches with impunity [[yeah, that Jones guy), and bluster and sputter at every little contretemp that forms a strange orbit around the big, invisible African elephant in the room [[with there "ohh, if daddy could only see the day that a N--- would be in the white house").
Driving while black is still real. Folks test the grounds everyday to see what they can get away with: so many celebrities [[Phil Robertson and Cliven Bundy to name a few) throw out racist gaff and it's sick how many folks run to support them. Do we not forget that we actually had a Grand Wizard of the KKK as a front runner for the Republican Presidential nominees in 1988 [[along with a former foreign diplomat, oil baron, and C.I.A. and Ely-Lily head as one and and a wealthy, lying Council of National policy minister as another)?
In my travels through 17 states, segregation is real! Whites are shown preferential treatment [[I myself was disgusted when an opportunity was passed over to a newcomer like me over the heads of a more deserving African American candidate who's waited longer. I've quite jobs and left cities-like Bloomington, IL. or many cities in Indiana because I can't tolerate the racism). Yes, Howell, MI had racists [[that was no mere rumor or embarrassing ghost form the "long past") there. I saw them. Yes, Indiana has KKK activity still alive. I can't begin to tell you how many folks giving me rides lean in and tell me why it was they really hate the city. You can't lie to me, and say it didn't happen or it was a "misperception" on my part. Boston? Liberal? look at how they were about bussing, how Jimmy Bulger had a racist agenda, how Harvard professors get harassed on their own front porch, the lack of Latino and African Americans attending Harvard or M.I.T., or the Charles Stuart incident. This is the tip of what I can site personally or from other objectively witnessed events.
Yet, I'm shocked and angry that this is something I should even have to address. The worst tactic in media-behavioral control is neglecting evidence and the facts as they pertain to the severity of the subject matter or the critical comparatives that must be applied [[and evidence drawn from all times and regions). We, as a spoiled, self-deluded, distracted, and over-indulgent nation must address these matters-not open them up like an ugly sore. You got idiots contradicting themselves by complaining how "blacks keep bringing up slavery or civil rights abuses" as if this were "ancient history", and then, they rail against the Catholics for things they did back in the 1400's. Acknowledging is essential to diagnosing and addressing the problem [[the Diagnosis specialist is just as essential as any other member of personal in the area of health). Otherwise, we let these things slip, and 20/20 is no longer giving us incisive updates on dwindling numbers of Native American Indians or corporations poisoning communities [[like they used to in the '80s), but instead, have Stoseel saying "Give Mee a Breeeaak" or the typical household-murder-porn story of the week.