{Article} This Is the Part of Detroit That Most People Are Not Aware Of

[belleislerunner]

Everyone should have the right to go to the nearest drinking hole/well/Detroit River and obtain their own water via buckets or methods they so choose. For the thousands [[or millions) of years of human civilization - that's how it worked.

However, if you would like someone else to pump the water from a well/water source, clean it, sanitize it and deliver it via infastructure conveniently to less than 10 feet of where you live regardless of the temperature outside - that is not a human right. That is a luxury item and you must pay for it.

[warsaw7]

Everyone should have the right to go to the nearest drinking hole/well/Detroit River and obtain their own water via buckets or methods they so choose. For the thousands [[or millions) of years of human civilization - that's how it worked.

However, if you would like someone else to pump the water from a well/water source, clean it, sanitize it and deliver it via infastructure conveniently to less than 10 feet of where you live regardless of the temperature outside - that is not a human right. That is a luxury item and you must pay for it.

Couldn't agree more!

[Jimaz]

So then would it be a crime if one were to deprive another of water with the intent to cause death by dehydration? Or could that be done legally?

Should that be done legally?

[sumas]

^^^The dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say.

Wow 313wx I have to concur I have not even read this whole thread and that comment blew me away. My husband and I are both disabled. We quite possibly have the best maintained home in the neighborhood. What?? are we supposed to live under some rock or maybe a warming or homeless shelter. So some"runner" can spit as they drive by in their Hummer.

I swear the evil people on this board live in trailer parks or Mama and Daddy's home. They have No clue on the real world or all the very decent decent people who get trapped in bad life situations. Next they will propose euthanasia.for all who don't meet their standards.

[EastsideAl]

I swear the evil people on this board live in trailer parks or Mama and Daddy's home. No clue on the real world or all the very decent decent people who get trapped in bad life situations. Next euthanasia sounds like it will get proposed.

belleislerunner has apparently avoided all bad things, and disability, by being a better person than you. You are obviously a freeloading disabled person who deserves to have your home taken from you [[because its a privilege, not a right! - and a privilege reserved for the able-bodied). But it's a good thing you live close enough to the river, so you can crawl over there with your bucket a slurp down some nice unfiltered Detroit River water [[filtering being only for good people with good jobs, not those with bad luck or disabilities) before you die of dehydration.

I swear there are more mean small-minded and small-hearted outright miserable bastards in this world these days, who seem to mistake their good fortune for golden-assed virtue and are more than willing to judge and damn their fellow men and women to hell, than I ever remember hearing from before. My grandmothers would be ashamed of you.

[EastsideAl]

But also comes with high[[er) crime, even with private security patrols. Indian Village can't be walled off in any practical way, so probably an issue of street grid rather than philosophical differences between communities.

Believe it or not, restricting access has been discussed in the past around here. And pretty soundly rejected. The feeling of most Villagers is that, for better or worse, we are a part of the city and not apart from it. For all that, and for being on the oh-so-scary east side, I don't think our crime is all that much higher than Palmer Woods' or other nice west side neighborhoods.

[ABetterDetroit]

Now wait a minute.

"27,000 homes think it's okay to steal water? ... it's okay to be thiefs [sic] ... the other criminals in 27,000 homes?"

Putting aside that homes can't steal, on what do you base your allegations of theft or crime? Stealing means violating a criminal code law, like illegally tapping into water lines to divert and steal water. Are you saying that something like that is happening with these 27,000 households?

Failure to pay a bill is neither stealing nor a crime. It is a civic matter, a contract breach at the most. It's between buyer and seller. Period.

Do you think it fair to blanket malign thousands of people as criminals when no crime has been committed. Imagine if life's fortunes left you in a position being unable to pay a bill? Would you like being called a criminal?

The real crime is that a city that is literally surrounded by unlimited high quality fresh water just flowing by has some how been mismanaged into a commodity that brings a market price that is well.. insane. Clean fresh water in such a abundance should be affordable, plentiful and a asset to the detroit metro area because it is so easy to send it down the mains.

[sumas]

Eastside Al, always enjoy your posts. Obviously we live near each other and comprehend the dilemmas of area neighbors., concern for safety. community enhancement and basic services. I don't think I would need to crawl to the river however. I have a scooter and a few pitchers to fill. Blind as a bat gave up driving several years ago. If you find BelleIsle runner with three treads up his back. Yeah, that would would be me being evil back.

Thank you MizMotown for sharing the article. My husband and I old, handicapped and decrepit that we are, had a very decent discussion regarding content. We remain committed to our community. Sumas

[Jimaz]

Lady Jessica's vow

[Gpwrangler]

A company [[DTE) charges money [[fee) in exchange for giving a good [[water).

A customer does not pay the bill [[fee) yet takes the water [[good).

What did your mother call it when you take something without paying for it?

My mother called that stealing.

Stealing is a crime.

People who commit crimes are criminals.

Therefore, the 27,000 homes who take water without paying are criminals.

If you disagree - I'd like to know on what basis it would not be okay for me to walk into Starbucks in Campus Martius and take a large coffee without paying and not expect criminal repercussions. It's a civic infraction - a breach of contract at most.

It's not that simple. Health deteriorates rapidly without water. Not everyone in this situation is a freeloader. If they were all turned out on the street it would be a huge crisis. Jail them all?

If a person is dehydrated and they are caught stealing that bottle of water, and prosecuted, multiplied by thousands, how are we making things better? lumping good people in with criminals doesn't help.

[sumas]

Believe it or not, restricting access has been discussed in the past around here. And pretty soundly rejected. The feeling of most Villagers is that, for better or worse, we are a part of the city and not apart from it. For all that, and for being on the oh-so-scary east side, I don't think our crime is all that much higher than Palmer Woods' or other nice west side neighborhoods.

Actually, the article addressed safety and private security. You are right, communities with defined identities fair rather well regarding crime. Barriers. do little.as do private security companies. Neighbors watching out for neighbors make a huge difference.

[Dan Wesson]

GPw says...

It's not that simple. Health deteriorates rapidly without water. Not everyone in this situation is a freeloader. If they were all turned out on the street it would be a huge crisis. Jail them all?

If a person is dehydrated and they are caught stealing that bottle of water, and prosecuted, multiplied by thousands, how are we making things better? lumping good people in with criminals doesn't help.

Got any numbers concerning those that suffer misfortune and infirmity as compared to
deadbeats? Anybody got the nads to filter the deadbeats out?

[Lowell]

A company [[DTE) charges money [[fee) in exchange for giving a good [[water).

A customer does not pay the bill [[fee) yet takes the water [[good).

What did your mother call it when you take something without paying for it?

My mother called that stealing.

Stealing is a crime.

No disrespect to your mother but no, that is not the crime of stealing as defined by our criminal code. It is a breach of contract between two business parties. If a customer does not pay a bill, the vendor [water dept.] has recourse in civil court only.

Read what former Detroit policeman Ray1936 wrote above.

This is a soured business deal. Nothing more. It happens all the time in business. With failure to pay a bill no crime has been committed and the people who haven't paid are not criminals. A criminal is someone who has been CONVICTED of a crime in criminal court. Calling the people of 27,000 households criminals is inaccurate, careless and hurtful. Legally you could be successfully sued for slander if you dared to call one those people a criminal face to face.

In reality what happens in the vast number of these cases is that a settlement occurs, often in the form of a payment plan, sometimes in the form of garnishments or other measures.

I get where you are going with your opinion but the facts are otherwise.

[Lowell]

But if your water is shutoff, and you turn in on without authorization, aren't you in fact stealing it? You have no contract for it at that point.

Correct. A criminal complaint could be filed. Same thing as if you figured out how to tap into a water main and run your own line out of it.

[belleislerunner]

Let's just say I'm glad I live in Detroit and not Farmington Hills =)

Someone needs to have some ethics.

[bailey]

Wow 313wx I have to concur I have not even read this whole thread and that comment blew me away. My husband and I are both disabled. We quite possibly have the best maintained home in the neighborhood. What?? are we supposed to live under some rock or maybe a warming or homeless shelter. So some"runner" can spit as they drive by in their Hummer.

I swear the evil people on this board live in trailer parks or Mama and Daddy's home. They have No clue on the real world or all the very decent decent people who get trapped in bad life situations. Next they will propose euthanasia.for all who don't meet their standards.

Didn't you inherit the house you live in? Since we're throwing stones about the "real world", most people aren't gifted a house either...

[sumas]

Didn't you inherit the house you live in? Since we're throwing stones about the "real world", most people aren't gifted a house either...

Yes we did, didn't see you around for the illness, the need, daily radiation, chemo and finally home hospice. We paid most of the bills, taxes etc for ten years. If you want to drool. We rejected the offer of two other gifts of homes from people we cared deeply about, whom we also we provided home hospice, 24/7 care, one being my Mother.

Who needs more than one home? We choose to live here.

My husband and I care deeply about our community, Village, if you wish. So much need, we do our best and it just is not enough. Area kids are our main focus now.

Yes, I think I "get" the real world. Hey my husband has Parkinsons, you want the house, come live here, take care of bills, maintenance, scatter our ashes... the house is yours.

[MizMotown]

Eastside Al, always enjoy your posts. Obviously we live near each other and comprehend the dilemmas of area neighbors., concern for safety. community enhancement and basic services. I don't think I would need to crawl to the river however. I have a scooter and a few pitchers to fill. Blind as a bat gave up driving several years ago. If you find BelleIsle runner with three treads up his back. Yeah, that would would be me being evil back.

Thank you MizMotown for sharing the article. My husband and I old, handicapped and decrepit that we are, had a very decent discussion regarding content. We remain committed to our community. Sumas

You are very welcome. Communication, community, and love will always prevail in the end! Paying it forward, even if it's a kind word of encouragement or a much needed hug is our greatest gift to our own kind. Thanks for sharing.

[sumas]

You are very welcome. Communication, community, and love will always prevail in the end! Paying it forward, even if it's a kind word of encouragement or a much needed hug is our greatest gift to our own kind. Thanks for sharing.

My mother in law always refers to the three C's... Consideration, Cooperation, Communication, lets add a fourth Community.

[belleislerunner]

There was an article about 3 weeks ago about how a scalper in Detroit stole copper from a church in Detroit and a heating/cooling company saw the story. The owner went and repaired it for free.

The lady's quote stuck with me. "The difference between a hood and a neighborhood are the neighbors." So true.

[sumas]

There was an article about 3 weeks ago about how a scalper in Detroit stole copper from a church in Detroit and a heating/cooling company saw the story. The owner went and repaired it for free.

The lady's quote stuck with me. "The difference between a hood and a neighborhood are the neighbors." So true.

You redeemed yourself. I do live in a village with great challenges. Lots of challenge but at the end of the day such great neighbors who help neighbors.

[Bham1982]

Believe it or not, restricting access has been discussed in the past around here. And pretty soundly rejected. The feeling of most Villagers is that, for better or worse, we are a part of the city and not apart from it. For all that, and for being on the oh-so-scary east side, I don't think our crime is all that much higher than Palmer Woods' or other nice west side neighborhoods.

Logistically, how would this be done? Indian Village is on a street grid, so, to me, it would seem almost impossible to have a Palmer Woods-style gated community. Palmer Woods is built in a suburban, "subdivision" style, with limited access points. Indian Village flows seamlessly into the adjacent blocks.

I mean, I guess you could just block every single road in/out of Indian Village except for one, but that would be crazy, and would make adjacent neighborhoods even more deprived. I don't think too many people would support such an arrangement.

[Wesley Mouch]

So then would it be a crime if one were to deprive another of water with the intent to cause death by dehydration? Or could that be done legally?

Absolutely nobody is being deprived of water. Water is available nearly everywhere. Nobody going to their local church is being turned away when they ask for a glass or bucket of water. Nobody.

Oh, are there some people who can't get to their church? Sure. Do you think there's a church in Detroit that won't find a way to get them water.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to fund water for the poor and disabled. Go ahead. Nobody is stopping you from paying their water bill. Go right now down to the water board and pay someone's bill for them. There are dozens of charities and gov't programs that'll take your money and help. Open your wallet.

What I can't abide is the notion that excusing the payment of reasonable water bills. It destroys the city we love. The poor are better off with a functioning city than they are with free water for anyone who just doesn't want to pay their bill. In each and every moment of our day, we can encourage the creation of a sustainable and viable Detroit -- or we can fall back to anarchy. Detroit of the last 20 years has shown us what anarchy does to the poor. We can do better.

And we don't do better by ignoring the responsibilities of society. We do better by helping our neighbors. Not by being stupid.

[Jimaz]

So then would it be a crime if one were to deprive another of water with the intent to cause death by dehydration? Or could that be done legally?

Should that be done legally?

Absolutely nobody is being deprived of water....

The number of words in your reply reveals more than the words themselves.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Sure sounds like it, doesn't it? People like belleislerunner always want to _hit on others, until something bad happens to them.