Grosse Pointe going ghetto?

[Honky Tonk]

Now that's the question! Crime containment will shift for many reasons. And I cannot believe that everyone south of Alter is waiting prey for just one GP to happen to walk their dog, leave a door open or a awaiting a bank line short enough to wager a robbery.

Of course it's not "everyone" West of Alter or North of Mack, but I doubt it's lawyers, and CEOs that have fallen on hard times that are behind this.

[Honky Tonk]

Most of the "invasions" seem to involve unlocked doors. So lock your doors. And this is not a recent occurrence. This has been going on for over a year, probably more, off and on. The media [[ who are just now reporting on stuff that happened 3 weeks ago) are way behind as usual. This is news? When I lived in the sticks there were thefts from unlocked barns, houses etc.

Fortunately the rapid police response in the Pointes is a deterrent. Quite a few of these folks have been caught. I hope no one breaks into the wrong house and loses their life over $15 worth of property.

The rest of this crap about "going ghetto" etc is just trolling and I won't address it. I wouldn't wish a crime on anyone anywhere. Some of these "invasions" have the potential to turn out bad. Take every precaution.

You're down playing what is going on in the Pointes and that's Ok. There have been many home invasions where doors were locked, cars stolen, and resident's hurt.

[Gpwrangler]

You're down playing what is going on in the Pointes and that's Ok. There have been many home invasions where doors were locked, cars stolen, and resident's hurt.

Please point out what part of my post is not backed by the data. I'm not downplaying anything, just pointing out a few things we can do that will help.

[Honky Tonk]

Please point out what part of my post is not backed by the data. I'm not downplaying anything, just pointing out a few things we can do that will help.

Locking your doors is a plus if perps are only going around and checking for door knobs that are unlocked. That probably does go on, but that certainly isn't the only type of home invasions that are going on in the Pointes.

[sumas]

Please point out what part of my post is not backed by the data. I'm not downplaying anything, just pointing out a few things we can do that will help.

You speak truth. Too many of my clients feel safe and fail to lock up. Home invasion is on the rise and people should at least do the minimum to prevent easy access.

[sumas]

You should make a movie about it. "Suma's List".

Great idea. Documentary seems more likely though. I'll even give you your moment of fame so you can deride Detroit. You will look like a total turd amidst the shining lights of people who make a difference.

[Chicago48]

I have heard that home invasions are up all over. They also seem to come in waves. Ann Arbor had 80 home invasions in two months a couple years ago. Of course, there were no attendant conversations on whether the tenor of the city was changing.

The way I see it, experience burglars will spend the time to case a house and fine out when somebody isn't home. I think it's the rookies who are going for the home invasions. Quite a few of them have been shot dead before they got far.

This thread is being what it is, I'll just say the larger question is why we worry, "Is violent crime spilling into this area?" Would it be acceptable if the crime stayed on the other side of Alter Road?

Don't live in a "home" live in an apartment or gated apartment complex.

[Danny]

The only thing I could find is a Harper Woods church that burned. Which, for all we know, was an electrical fire. But Harper Woods is already "ghetto", so it's no big deal. Happens all time in the ghetto.

That's right, Harper Woods is already an instant ghetto just 10 years ago. As more middle class black folks mostly from drug and gang torn east-side and northeast areas move in. You should see what happen to Kelly Rd. and Moross Dr. 20 years ago when I was walking down Kelly Rd. to Eastland Mall. The shopping district on Kelly Rd. was filled with mom and pop white owned businesses and fewer black, Hmong and Chaldean Owned businesses. Now its slowing becoming ghetto-ized. with more middle class black businesses and fewer covered up retail windows. I don't hardly walk down Beaconsfield Rd. Harper Woods demographics today is 46% black 45% white 8% other.


I'm not really going to say that the five Richvilles are become an instant ghetto. But I do see some areas along Kercheval St. Just a block near Alter Rd. E. Vernor Rd. just 4 blocks near Alter Rd. and Mack Ave just 6 blocks north of Alter Rd. are losing some businesses due to direct proximity to Detroit's long time black and blighted ghetto hoods. It's not going to take blocking a few neighborhood street corners including Kercheval Rd. to demarcate poor Detroit folks. That includes kicking out black males wearing Travyon Martins and gangs and drug dealers from entering the 5 Richvilles and bother rich and middle class white folks. The five Richvilles will main their precious real estate properties and continue to fortify their values from Detroit's black troubles with their racially profile police force. If they were a sign or more petty to violent crimes, drug dealing, case and robbing and G-checking in that small white rich community. People in Richvilles would have to two options: stay or get out! Just like in all Detroit neighborhoods.

[Bham1982]

Don't live in a "home" live in an apartment or gated apartment complex.

People with kids, money or who want to entertain aren't going to be living in a crappy apartment building. Private homes are probably more secure, anyways, since the homeowner is in control of security.

[Dan Wesson]

Is smack making a comeback?

I've seen good catholic suburban white kids that would rob their mother blind.

[Gpwrangler]

Locking your doors is a plus if perps are only going around and checking for door knobs that are unlocked. That probably does go on, but that certainly isn't the only type of home invasions that are going on in the Pointes.

Locking doors is a good idea no matter what the mix of crimes. It delays entry and causes a perp to make noise which gives you time to prepare to defend yourself with weapon of choice, or escape. And it protects you in the VAST majority of cases regardless of whether you are in the Pointes or elsewhere.

Statistics aside [[and I do have them) even one terrible crime is too many. Slow them down with door locks, light your home, and equip yourself to escape or defend.

Then again, if the point of this thread was to say "grosse pointe is going downhill", I guess I missed the point.

[Honky Tonk]

Locking doors is a good idea no matter what the mix of crimes. It delays entry and causes a perp to make noise which gives you time to prepare to defend yourself with weapon of choice, or escape. And it protects you in the VAST majority of cases regardless of whether you are in the Pointes or elsewhere.

Statistics aside [[and I do have them) even one terrible crime is too many. Slow them down with door locks, light your home, and equip yourself to escape or defend.

Then again, if the point of this thread was to say "grosse pointe is going downhill", I guess I missed the point.

I don't think GP itself is going downhill per se, but the amount of crime affecting GP residents certainly IS on the rise. And yes, do what you can to slow the bastards down so you can feed a clip and chamber a round.

[MikeM]

Break-ins, burglaries, and robberies have been going on in the Pointes for decades. It may be cyclical but it's nothing new. Go look at the Grosse Pointe News archives from the forties, fifties, sixties. You'd never move here based on the crime reports.

[Bham1982]

Break-ins, burglaries, and robberies have been going on in the Pointes for decades. It may be cyclical but it's nothing new. Go look at the Grosse Pointe News archives from the forties, fifties, sixties. You'd never move here based on the crime reports.

I find that hard to believe. The Pointes weren't adjacent to the ghetto back then. The adjacent Detroit neighborhoods were quite nice, and very low crime.

It's hard to imagine that, back in the 50's, criminals from far away were regularly committing crimes in the Pointes.

[dtowncitylover]

I find that hard to believe. The Pointes weren't adjacent to the ghetto back then. The adjacent Detroit neighborhoods were quite nice, and very low crime.

It's hard to imagine that, back in the 50's, criminals from far away were regularly committing crimes in the Pointes.

As a lover of local history I loved to look at my college's Detroit News microfilm collection. I did notice there was still crime back then.

Just because it wasn't near the ghetto doesn't mean it didn't happen. Or can people only from the ghetto commit these crimes?

[Bham1982]

As a lover of local history I loved to look at my college's Detroit News microfilm collection. I did notice there was still crime back then.

Yes, but there is "still crime" anywhere there are humans, anywhere on earth.

I think everyone here is aware there is no such thing as a community with no crimes whatsoever. The issue is whether the encroachment of the high-crime ghetto on Grosse Pointe's borders is having any overflow effects.

There was no ghetto close to the Pointes back in the 50's, so it would be highly unlikely that violent thugs from far away would be entering the Pointes to commit crimes. That doesn't mean that 100% of GP crimes are committed by outsiders, or that the Pointes had a crime rate of 0 in the past.

[DetroitBoy]

MikeM you're correct there was not this type of crime in the 50s in GP and HW. I grew up in the area and it was a safe place where people could enjoy the fruits of their hard work with a nice home. They didn't feel they needed to lock up like a prison and arm themselves in order to feel secure. I am sad to think about someones 65 year old grandmother on Beaufait in the Woods or on Handy Rd in GPF being told they can no longer go out on their front lawns and rake leaves because they could be robbed in broad daylight.

You need only look at what is happening in the school system in HW and GPW to see what the area has become. Last year, HWHS had a new kind of celebration to mark the end of the school year at the new $30M campus. The festivities where so high spirited that it overwhelmed the police department and back up from other towns were called in to help channel the enthusiasm of the students. The celebration was so fun filled it even continued off school property on homeowner's lawns after the police intercession:

http://youtu.be/h8xQL1xIjvg

In GPW, North HS is also suffering from an influx of students from rental properties in HW who attend the school. A local meeting had to be called with the superintendent to address these concerns with the community. While students recount episodes of out of control behavior in the hallways, the superintendent swore over and over that the school was safe. Some parents in the southern boundary of the school system were calling for a change in the district to allow their children to attend South HS instead. Hopefully, the newly elected members of the school Board can address some of these problems. Why does the GP system have students from HW going to their schools? Perhaps it is time to redistrict and let HW educate all of their community.

No doubt my comments will be criticized by others who refer to it as trolling. It is terrible that we have abandoned any sense or right and wrong behavior such that everything has to boil down to being a racial issue. It seems inconsistent to me that people who claim to be fleeing Detroit due to crime in the neighborhoods and schools find these kind of events acceptable. That home invasions and bank robberies in what was a wonderful community are dismissed with the 'it happens everywhere' mentality.

We can only pray that it doesn't take a string of violent crimes which are common occurrences in Detroit to spill over before people say 'Enough is enough. We won't tolerate it here'.

[bailey]

We can only pray that it doesn't take a string of violent crimes which are common occurrences in Detroit to spill over before people say 'Enough is enough. We won't tolerate it here'.

The point you're continually ignoring in this troll fest is that it's not tolerated, which is why when it happens in the GPs it's NEWS... and in the overwhelming vast majority of cases, the perp is caught.

[Honky Tonk]

Great idea. Documentary seems more likely though. I'll even give you your moment of fame so you can deride Detroit. You will look like a total turd amidst the shining lights of people who make a difference.

You're such a flatterer. Why not, much like your posts, just make it a 2 1/2 hour cameo, where you feed the camera unrealistic, feel-good, bullshit, about yourself?

[animatedmartian]

We can only pray that it doesn't take a string of violent crimes which are common occurrences in Detroit to spill over before people say 'Enough is enough. We won't tolerate it here'.

And herein lies the problem. Just because something is common doesn't mean it's tolerated. It's only when crime "spills over" into Grosse Pointe that suddenly the world is fallen apart. Detroiters can form organizations, march in the streets, and do all sorts of things in response to the crime they have in their neighborhoods but god forbid if Grosse Pointers have to lock their doors. It just makes it seem like GP residents have an air of superiority about themselves and their community as if they're somehow immune to the outside world by some magical force.

The truth of the matter is that crime affects people on an individual level and is not correlated to the name of a place.

[Bham1982]

And herein lies the problem. Just because something is common doesn't mean it's tolerated.

That's exactly the point. Generally speaking, crime in Detroit is tolerated. It isn't a civic or community emergency. That's, in part, why people left. If such incidents drove you crazy and set you on edge, you wouldn't be living in Detroit in the first place.

In the Pointes, crime isn't tolerated. That's why these incidents are a big deal. It isn't that people are "better" than in Detroit, but that crime is a far greater concern.

[Lowell]

Maybe we need to tag recurring threads like this as 'Schadenfreude' [joy in others sorrow or problems].

There is a built up resentment by those living in Detroit and other troubled cities from hearing a continual drumbeat fueled by the media, by those who do not live there and then gets played out in social media that runs, "Jeez, another [insert hideous crime here]. Oh how awful it must be to live there. You must be crazy to live or even visit there. It's become such a s***hole. I remember when it was... Why don't you people do something about it. etc. etc."

I know. I lived in Highland Park for three decades of its darkest years. I heard it all. It could be exasperating for my honest neighbors trying to do their best, raising their kids, and trying to make a difference.

So when something hideous happens in the cozy quiet places that resentment can boil over and an almost predictable gleeful strike backs like this thread arise, "You were so smug, now you are in our shoes, how does it feel, you're next, your community is going to fall apart, you deserve it, etc. etc."

And the downward spiral goes on. Everybody loses.

How do we get beyond that? How do we become sympathetic to the victims of these terrible events no matter where there are in our city, and we are one big city if we look down from space where no borders are visible?

How does the dialogue get changed to, "That's simply awful. How can we all come together to stop this wherever it occurs? What information can we gather to track down these perpetrators?"

[DetroitBoy]

Bham, You are correct. My family never thought they were better than anyone else. Likewise, we never blamed our problems on what others claimed to do against us or some force outside our home other than what my parents and our kids did right or wrong. We had respect for our neighbors, community and others in general. When we did wrong, we paid the price. Not so these days. Kids can start a riot at High School and get off with misdemeanor charges instead of being punished to the fullest extent of the law and made an example of for behavior which will not be tolerated under any circumstances. Did the parents of these children get the bills for the extra police required? I am sure they didn't.

[MikeM]

Let's see, a random search of the news archives for "robbery" and the first article I find, from April 1951:


Alleged Bandit Held for Trial

Herbert Williams, convicted of the armed robbery of a Grosse Pointe couple, was returned here last week to testify during the examination of one of his alleged accomplices, Sam Lavigne.

The pair, accompanied by Gordon Cameron, were charged with robbing Mr. and Mrs. Alex Phillos in their home at 1038 Nottingham in December, 1949.

After ransacking the house, bandits bound the couple and fled with $400 police said.

Williams and Cameron were apprehended, convicted of the crime, and sent to Jackson Prison, but Lavigne was at large until arrested by the FBI on a tip from Park Police Chief Louwers.

The examination was heard before Judge C.Joseph Belanger. The trial will be held in Circuit Court.

Meanwhile, Lavigne is held under a $10,000 bond.

=======================


Don't tell me this syrupy shit about the good old days. Other headlines from the same issue:

Nab Juvenilles in Auto Theft

Awaits Sentence in Morals Case

Tire and Wheel Stolen

More Hubcaps Stolen

Juveniles Found With Stolen Car

More Windows Broken

School Watchman Reports Attack

More Vandalism

Two Rabid Dogs Found in Park

Vandals Cut Tops of Convertibles

Seek Window Breaker

=========================

There's nothing new going on in GP. It's been decades of break-ins and robberies, stolen bikes and snow blowers and cars, residents coming home to find jewelry, electronics, cameras, cash missing, windows or doors pried open, etc. I came home to a thief in my house in 1978 and scared him off. Meanwhile, I still live here and still leave my doors unlocked during the day, even when I'm gone.

[Gpwrangler]

Bham, You are correct. My family never thought they were better than anyone else. Likewise, we never blamed our problems on what others claimed to do against us or some force outside our home...

most of my GP neighbors don't think they're any better than anyone. A lot of them are liberals and some would invite a thief in for tea. We are just regular people who work hard for what we have.

This is thread has gone the way I thought it would. What exactly is the point of posting about the fact that GP has crime too? The admin even chimes in - without moving this to "non detroit" where it belongs. Smh