Grosse Pointe going ghetto?

[SyGolden48236]

'Sy' it's amazing that a few innocuous comments, all based on actual events reported by the media, unnerve you and a few others on this site to such a ferocous extent. It appears that is not very rational. Perhaps you aren't as secure about your neighborhood as you profess?

I hate to rain on your parade but you did not unnerve me. It is just that I do not suffer fools easily. And you, young man, are a fool.

[MAcc]

I feel compelled to add that while I think there are changing demographics in both Shaker and GP, I'd live in either one without hesitation. To make a Chicago comparison, both GP and Shaker will move towards being more like Evanston/Oak Park and less like Winnetka/Lake Forest.

I see where you're coming from, but Chicago's GDP is 3x Detroit's. Evanston also has the benefit of being home to one of the wealthiest and most elite universities in the world, Northwestern. It's akin to moving UM to Grosse Pointe. UM makes Ann Arbor largely recession-proof.

[DetroitBoy]

I hate to rain on your parade but you did not unnerve me. It is just that I do not suffer fools easily. And you, young man, are a fool.

'Sy' more name calling. Typical behavior for an insecure person.

[MAcc]

The whole argument over the fact that because William Clay Ford Jr. moved to the posh Ann Arbor suburb of Barton Hills is totally irrelevant to any discussion about the Grosse Pointes state of well being.

Barton Hills is nice homes, on nice lots, a couple miles north of UM -- but nothing that crazy. I don't think he fell in love with Barton Hills, he clearly wanted to live in Ann Arbor.

[MAcc]

'Sy' more name calling. Typical behavior for an insecure person.

The GP defenders sound EXACTLY like the Shaker Heights defenders on city-data forums. From claiming the naysayers are exaggerating to the "you just don't get [GP]." See:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...-question.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...host-town.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...r-heights.html

http://www.heightsobserver.org/read/...ter-of-decline

That said, your house is the most expensive investment most people ever make. And where you raise and you're sending your kids to school is the more precious thing in the world. So it's impossible to have a candid and transparent conversation with someone currently so invested in GP. The freshest and most honest take you'll get is from someone who just sold their GP house.

[Gistok]

Barton Hills is nice homes, on nice lots, a couple miles north of UM -- but nothing that crazy. I don't think he fell in love with Barton Hills, he clearly wanted to live in Ann Arbor.

So? Still irrelevant to the downfall of the Grosse Pointes discussion.

And Sy..... that list is dated... so your comment, if anything, affirms the point that not all Fords continue to live in the Grosse Pointes....

[MAcc]

I suspect the biggest complainers [[or more likely their parents) had to leave here or got in trouble with the cops and can't let it go.

Did Thomas Guastello and Art Van Elslander get in trouble with the cops before moving to Birmingham and Bloomfield Twp, respectively? Were all the Pointers who dumped their underwater GP house from 2006-2012 to keep the vacation home in Florida [[the Hathaways were far from the only ones who pulled that stunt) in trouble with the cops?

Were the 6,000 white residents you lost between 2000 and 2010 in trouble with the cops?
http://datadrivendetroit.org/data-ma...ool_districts/

http://www.mlive.com/education/index...e_in_worl.html
"A decade ago, both cities had about 8 percent of their students living in rented housing. Now it’s 24 percent in Birmingham; 20 percent in Grosse Pointe."

"The district saw a 263 percent increase in African-American students between the 2000 and 2010 censuses."

[ABetterDetroit]

Then crime will be a thing of the past. I don't think so! Criminals can find a way to hack into any electronic crime prevention devices and rob any area they want without getting caught in seconds. Minority Report "pre-crime" prevention culture is not going to work.

As long you have folks donning Trayvon Martins carrying glocks in the back of their pants, crime will happen. This will put middle class folks in state of fear, move away from the neighborhoods, lower property values, and bringing in lower income welfare folks. Thus you have a crime laden ghetto.

I don't think rich white and middle class folks of the remaining Richvilles will lose their precious million dollar mansions near their lakefront properties. It's a smaller home stock in some areas Grosse Pointes and Harper Woods will lose out to lower income welfare pacificied black folks. Grosse Pointe Woods will be the first victim then Grosse Pointe Park, but only in smaller fashionable and dressed up homes.

For as I know white folks had already lost Harper Woods and Eastpointe. They don't want to live too close ghetto hoods of Detroit. At least some of them.

Wide spread technology is already being used in London, New York, DC and Philly. Boston has now started to invest in it as well and Paris will soon join the list of new investors [[go figure). These systems are not based off of a movie but are being built right now in reality. A major part of the thought that goes into them is taking into account the simple fact the criminals use masks in major violent crime [[duh) and is designed to track movement, point of origins, contacts etc. A basic truth is that as when these systems start getting more wide spread in use is that stupid criminals and crime of opportunity committed on a whim will be the easiest to solve. When you're engineering in strategy to catch the people who are trying to cover their tracks the dumb ones will be like netting goldfish in a bowl. [[they sure aren't computer hackers, you get confused between movies and reality). Change is inevitable, everything always changes and the age of jumping in your car and shooting people with guns has seen its apex. Violent crimes will still exist its just that technology will force it onto a smaller and smaller piece of real estate.

No worries for you though Danny, people with low self esteem that have been preaching hate and fear since the dawn of civilization will continue to do so for a while because it makes them feel better about their own lack of accomplishments.

[MAcc]

All year, but especially in the warmer months, there's extensive home remodeling/tear down/new construction going on in Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills. Are there tear downs and rebuilds happening in GP?

[SyGolden48236]

So? Still irrelevant to the downfall of the Grosse Pointes discussion.

And Sy..... that list is dated... so your comment, if anything, affirms the point that not all Fords continue to live in the Grosse Pointes....

Why would you post outdated information without identifying it as such?

It does not matter that not all of the Fords live in the Pointe. While many Fords did indeed live here many do not. Who cares? It makes no difference to the fact that this community is far from ghetto and those that proclaim it as such either do not know the definition of the word or are out of touch with reality. Either way, most folks know that the originator of this post is trolling and this whole discussion is rubbish. I regret that I even stuck my toe in the cesspool that is this thread. Shalom!

[cjd]

Why does everyone care so much about GP on a Detroit forum? Many suburbs face similar issues in which part of the city starts to become cheaper and a 'less desirable' faction moves in. Take a look at Farmington Hills as but one example. I haven't seen thread with 10k views about FH going ghetto.

[dtowncitylover]

Just for the record since you must be another Eastsider who has never been west of Woodward, the home robbery with 3 people was in Beverly Hills [[S of 14 mile/Southfield Rd) not Birmingham which means it is essentially Southfield. The lawyer/front door shooting in BH you mentioned was masterminded by one of his, how shall we say, "acquaintances" from a local gentleman's club who had visited the home as a 'guest' on previous occasions. She decided to pay another unscheduled visit with two of her male companions which she owed money for drugs.

On your lakefront mansions comment, right, nothing changing there. The Art Van's who left for Oakland county years ago finally gave the house away for 3.8 when they were asking 16M. And then there is Bill Ford and family who now call Ann Arbor home. And let's not forget how many lakefront mansions have been torn down over the years and subdivided into smaller homes because no one can afford them. Other than that, nothing has changed much on the lakefront.

The schools in BH are the best in the region and improving not falling like in GP. They are diverse in student population and there is no issue or masked racial tension like what is happening in GP. Look at a town's schools. They are always the compass for the direction any town is headed.

An early frontrunner for most elitist post of the year...

The problem with Metro Detroit is apparent in these discussions. We're arguing whose suburb is better when we need to be communicating and tackling problems together.

I, too, am not an eastsider. I grew up and still living along the Woodward corridor. I would love for you to tell a person from Beverly Hills that they "basically" live in Southfield. Please, go ahead.

ISIS unnerves me, am I supposed to pack up and move to the moon?

[MAcc]

I can’t find a single source that puts Grosse Pointe public schools among the creme de la creme. Even if we isolate the “premier” Grosse Pointe South High, it is merely #25 in the state. Michigan as a whole is fairly depressed when it comes to public schools, ranking in the bottom half of the country; so on a national scale, #25 is pretty unfortunate for a town full of cosmopolitans with prestigious aspirations. Nobody is claiming it's going to be Detroit by the end of 2015, but it seems quite obvious the district’s best days are long behind. Glancing at this list, it's pretty clear in or near Ann Arbor, Northville, eastern Grand Rapids burbs, Bhills/Bham, and Rochester/Oakland Twp are much wiser real estate investments.

1-3 International Academies of Macomb, Bloomfield Hills, Washtenaw
4 City High, Grand Rapids
5 Seaholm, Birmingham
6 Saginaw Arts & Sciences
7 Okemos
8 Community, Ann Arbor
9 Adams, Rochester
10 East Grand Rapids
11 Northville
12 Troy
13 Forest Hills Central
13 Saline
15 Chelsea
16 Pioneer, Ann Arbor
17 Washtenaw Tech
18 Skyline, Ann Arbor
19 Athens, Troy
19 Novi
21 Houghton Central
22 Stoney Creek, Rochester
23 Black River [[Public Charter), Holland
23 Harbor Springs
25 Forest Hills East
25 Grosse Pointe South
.
.
.
86 Grosse Pointe North

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/districtrank.aspx

[dtowncitylover]

I can’t find a single source that puts Grosse Pointe public schools among the creme de la creme. Even if we isolate the “premier” Grosse Pointe South High, it is merely #25 in the state. Michigan as a whole is fairly depressed when it comes to public schools, ranking in the bottom half of the country; so on a national scale, #25 is pretty unfortunate for a town full of cosmopolitans with prestigious aspirations. Nobody is claiming it's going to be Detroit by the end of 2015, but it seems quite obvious the district’s best days are long behind. Glancing at this list, it's pretty clear Ann Arbor, Northville, eastern Grand Rapids burbs, Bhills/Bham, and Rochester/Oakland Twp are much wiser real estate investments.

And still, none of this matters. The Pointes are still affluent, desirable, and the schools and neighborhoods are overall safe and respectable. No one in their right mind would say anything to the contrary. We are all biased against our communities, true, but we need to be objective. End of story.

[Gpwrangler]

?... No one in their right mind would say anything to the contrary. ..snip

There's the problem lol

[ABetterDetroit]

I can’t find a single source that puts Grosse Pointe public schools among the creme de la creme. Even if we isolate the “premier” Grosse Pointe South High, it is merely #25 in the state. Michigan as a whole is fairly depressed when it comes to public schools, ranking in the bottom half of the country; so on a national scale, #25 is pretty unfortunate for a town full of cosmopolitans with prestigious aspirations. Nobody is claiming it's going to be Detroit by the end of 2015, but it seems quite obvious the district’s best days are long behind. Glancing at this list, it's pretty clear Ann Arbor, Northville, eastern Grand Rapids burbs, Bhills/Bham, and Rochester/Oakland Twp are much wiser real estate investments.

1-3 International Academies of Macomb, Bloomfield Hills, Washtenaw
4 City High, Grand Rapids
5 Seaholm, Birmingham
6 Saginaw Arts & Sciences
7 Okemos
8 Community, Ann Arbor
9 Adams, Rochester
10 East Grand Rapids
11 Northville
12 Troy
13 Forest Hills Central
13 Saline
15 Chelsea
16 Pioneer, Ann Arbor
17 Washtenaw Tech
18 Skyline, Ann Arbor
19 Athens, Troy
19 Novi
21 Houghton Central
22 Stoney Creek, Rochester
23 Black River [[Public Charter), Holland
23 Harbor Springs
25 Forest Hills East
25 Grosse Pointe South
.
.
.
86 Grosse Pointe North

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/districtrank.aspx

Out of 2,875 public high schools in the state of Michigan thats in the in the top 1 percentile and 4th respectively. The pointes are just fine, 96% of the high schools in the state wish they did as good as the pointes worst.

http://high-schools.com/directory/mi/

[Gistok]

Why would you post outdated information without identifying it as such?

It does not matter that not all of the Fords live in the Pointe. While many Fords did indeed live here many do not. Who cares? It makes no difference to the fact that this community is far from ghetto and those that proclaim it as such either do not know the definition of the word or are out of touch with reality. Either way, most folks know that the originator of this post is trolling and this whole discussion is rubbish. I regret that I even stuck my toe in the cesspool that is this thread. Shalom!

Sy, I have no beef with you... my comment was geared to DetroitBoy who has repeatedly been making a meal out of a morsel over the fact that GP is going ghetto over the fact that William Clay Ford Jr. moved to the Ann Arbor area.... you and I are basically on the same page.... it DOESN'T matter where the family members live....

[MAcc]

Out of 2,875 public high schools in the state of Michigan thats in the in the top 1 percentile and 4th respectively. The pointes are just fine, 96% of the high schools in the state wish they did as good as the pointes worst.

http://high-schools.com/directory/mi/

99% of Michigan is largely irrelevant, either ghetto or farmville [[and I bet a rather significant % of that 2,875 are alternative and early college "high schools"). Either way, for GP to fall from top 3 to top 30 is significant decline. And I guess you believe the drop has stopped? Most logical people safely infer GP's publics will continue to fall. Of course the GP resident talking points will remain the same, e.g., everyone is exaggerating, our architecture can't be beat, you just don't get the Pointes, the Pointes have always had crime, we don't run away from diversity.

[Dumpling]

Coyotitaville!

[FlyingJ]

'going'? Alfred R. Glancy's home invasion was 42 years ago...died in Haper Hospital 7 months later http://www.leagle.com/decision/19757...0v.%20WILLIAMS

[SWMAP]

Flying: I think that your example would be germane to this discussion if you could say that the assailant of Mr. Glance was one of his neighbors in Grosse Pointe, but you do not assert that.
What is being dicussed here is whether the bucolic norm of Grosse Pointe is being harmed by a new class of residents who may or may not be homeowners and who appear to be forcing a lowering of previously high school standards and neighborhood peace standards.

if Mr. Glancy's assailant were to have come to Grosse Ponte from, say the east side of Detroit, to do the crime- that would actually support the OP's quiery.

[SWMAP]

And I just looked up a Grosse Pointe News archive about Mr. Glancy's death and, indeed, the burglars who killed him were both from Detroit.
agian, no one doubts that three has always been crime in Grosse Pointe. It wasn't home-grown previously, tho. This discussion is about whether that has changed with new residents.

[MAcc]

And still, none of this matters. The Pointes are still affluent, desirable, and the schools and neighborhoods are overall safe and respectable. No one in their right mind would say anything to the contrary. We are all biased against our communities, true, but we need to be objective. End of story.

It really depends on what you're comparing them to. Their stability most certainly warrants a level of uncertainty. If you buy a million dollar house in Barton Hills, Ann Arbor are you concerned it will be worth $600K in five or ten years? No. Can you say the same for a similar house in the Pointes?

[MAcc]

I wonder what % of the real money in GP even lives there full time. It wouldn't surprise me to learn most of the wealth is 65+, retired and living in Florida half the year. Who replaces those old timers when they pass away and/or move to Florida full time at a rapid clip?

[SyGolden48236]

Sy, I have no beef with you... my comment was geared to DetroitBoy who has repeatedly been making a meal out of a morsel over the fact that GP is going ghetto over the fact that William Clay Ford Jr. moved to the Ann Arbor area.... you and I are basically on the same page.... it DOESN'T matter where the family members live....

Gisty: Please understand, F*** the Fords. I don't give a damn where they live. They are not needed to validate the worth of the city of my residence. The Pointe is a wonderful place to live despite the dearth of Fords and in spite of the lunatic ramblings of the internet troll known as Detroitboy.

Those of us who have lived here for decades know the truth. We will be just fine regardless of online nonsense as spread by the likes of mentally deficient fools like the original poster on this thread.