Any cons regarding Cranbrook Schools?

[anonJD]

I didn't grow up here. Aside from the price tag, are there any concerns?

[rjlj]

about what?

I didn't grow up here. Aside from the price tag, are there any concerns?

[Hamtragedy]

Except for being labelled the usual rich-kid, or worse, some f$%k-up whose parents couldn't wait to send them to boarding school, then no. None whatsoever.

They also have a Masters of Fine Arts program as well.

[mwilbert]

I didn't grow up here. Aside from the price tag, are there any concerns?

It's a fairly challenging, college track curriculum. If that's what you are looking for, aside from the price and the location [[depending on where you live) it's certainly one of the best choices in the region, and the campus is unparalleled. Because it has a boarding school component, the facilities are available for longer hours than most conventional schools. One drawback might be that because it draws from a fairly large area kids may not have any classmates near them. There could be a lot of driving...

I don't have a direct connection but I know people who have gone there, whose children have gone there, and who teach there and none of them have anything bad to say about it.

Personally, if I had a boy I'd send him to U-D Jesuit, but that's not because I think anything bad about Cranbrook.

[FormerDetroiter]

To the OP what exactly are your concerns.

[rb336]

Except for being labelled the usual rich-kid, or worse, some f$%k-up whose parents couldn't wait to send them to boarding school, then no. None whatsoever.

They also have a Masters of Fine Arts program as well.

f$%k-ups don't get accepted to Cranbrook. If you're in Bloomfield or Birmingham, there's very little added value. There are some new, less expensive private schools - and at least one public school in those two communities - teaching an "international" curriculum that is very successful

[Bham1982]

Cranbrook is very, very good, probably the most socially elite school in Michigan, and its facilities are the best of any school in Michigan, but, like any school, there are potential drawbacks.

It's the most expensive school in the state [[though Cranbrook, unlike most privates, has extensive private aid, due to big endowment).

It's generally considered a bit inferior academically to Detroit Country Day, which is a bit cheaper.

If you live in Birmingham or Bloomfield districts [[as well as a few others), the public schools are about as strong, so there's really no academic advantage to Cranbrook. The advantages are primarily smaller class size and snob appeal.

[Scottathew]

I'd rather move to a nice area with strong public schools and send my kid to those. I don't have anything ill to say about Cranbrook.

[knwb]

as a graduate of cranbrook [[i was there from 6th to 12th grade, having gone to public school for elementary), i can safely say [[at least as far as the early 1990s) that cranbrook is [[or at least was) superior in education to pretty much every public school in the area, perhaps leaving out groves. we were reading literature in 7th grade that kids at lahser weren't reading until their senior year. the college counsellors were immensely helpful in getting you to the colleges that would be right for you, and while i can't speak to the athletics, i can say that the theater department was nothing short of fantastic.

a couple people mentioned the snob factor, it really doesn't exist as much as you'd think. certainly from an outsider perspective, maybe we were snobs, but within the school itself... i mean, you certainly knew who the ridiculously wealthy kids were, but at least to the best of my knowledge it was never a Thing - the student body, due to the HUB program and its extensive financial aid program, is highly diverse, with kids from all different financial and social backgrounds, and where in the public schools all you heard about were the different cliques and separateness, the kids at cranbrook intermixed fluidly, with kids from all social groups interacting with everyone else.

if there is any downside to attending cranbrook, short of the pricetag [[which, admittedly, is ridiculous - i was lucky enough to come from a wealthy family, so my parents were able to afford the full tuition, but it cost more to send me to cranbrook for four years than it did to send me to a small liberal arts college afterward), i haven't seen it. i will say that, outside of the midwest, employers are not as moved by the name on a resume as the school would lead prospective students to believe, but that is absolutely where the downsides end.

[DTWflyer]

Pretty much agree with everything else that is written above:

A very elite, private school, that is one of the best educational experiences in the state.

Upsides:
1) Arts, sciences, academics - That is their emphasis and what they are known for. They can do things and have the resources that public schoold do not.


2) Facilities/campus
Related to the point above, they have a functioning science center/museum, art studios/museum, a strong fine arts and theater program. A beautiful campus and facilities condusive to learning.

3) College prep
Their curriculum focuses on getting students into good schools. They have the student body to do so, they have resources and connections to do so.

The only downsides are:
1) Price - there are less expensive private schools and also the surrounding public school districts - Birmingham, Bloomfield, Troy, Rochester will prepare students just as well academically for college

2) Commuter / Boarding school mix: There is strong community within the school, but you have a unique mix of boarding school students from all over the Midwest, there are students who live nearby the campus, and them commuters from other parts of Metro Detroit. So it isn't the case where fellow classmates typically live in close proximity to each other, in the house next door, etc. There isn't as much of a local community tie to school like you may find in other places

3) Athletics: Cranbrook is more known for the arts, sciences, and academics. While they occasionally will have an all-state cross country, track, field hockey, or lacrosse team they I believe are a Class B-C or Div III school. They do not get the exposure in some of the higher profile sports like football, basketball, soccer, baseball as other bigger schools. Detroit Country Day and Brother Rice are typically the private schools of choice in the area for college recruiting and athletic programs.

[Bham1982]

I can think of a few more points-

Cranbrook has very small class sizes and a very supportive environment compared to even other privates and definitely compared to publics. I know of people who struggled in public school and thrived at Cranbrook. Cranbrook allowed these students to fulfill their potential as opposed to the more "sink or swim" environment in public schools.

If, however, your kid is thriving in a public school, I would not send to Cranbrook, even if money were no object. I don't think there will be any disadvantage in terms of college admissions were a student to attend Bloomfield or Seaholm. They do about as well in terms of sending kids to the Ivies and the like.

[downtownguy]

as a graduate of cranbrook [[i was there from 6th to 12th grade, having gone to public school for elementary), i can safely say [[at least as far as the early 1990s) that cranbrook is [[or at least was) superior in education to pretty much every public school in the area...

I graduated from Cooley High School. They taught me how to use capital letters.

[Bham1982]

I graduated from Cooley High School. They taught me how to use capital letters.

LOL. Tell that to ee cummmings.

DPS actually used to be superior to the suburban schools. In the 1950's and 60's, the biggest feeder school to University of Michigan was Mumford High School. If you met a Jewish kid from Metro Detroit at U-M back then, you could pretty much bank on them being a Mumford grad.

[Scottathew]

I graduated from Cooley High School. They taught me how to use capital letters.

I LOLed! That post cracked me up as well as your response.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but the lack of capital letters sent my brain into a frenzy.

[Patrick]

as a graduate of cranbrook [[i was there from 6th to 12th grade, having gone to public school for elementary), i can safely say [[at least as far as the early 1990s) that cranbrook is [[or at least was) superior in education to pretty much every public school in the area, perhaps leaving out groves. we were reading literature in 7th grade that kids at lahser weren't reading until their senior year. the college counsellors were immensely helpful in getting you to the colleges that would be right for you, and while i can't speak to the athletics, i can say that the theater department was nothing short of fantastic.

a couple people mentioned the snob factor, it really doesn't exist as much as you'd think. certainly from an outsider perspective, maybe we were snobs, but within the school itself... i mean, you certainly knew who the ridiculously wealthy kids were, but at least to the best of my knowledge it was never a Thing - the student body, due to the HUB program and its extensive financial aid program, is highly diverse, with kids from all different financial and social backgrounds, and where in the public schools all you heard about were the different cliques and separateness, the kids at cranbrook intermixed fluidly, with kids from all social groups interacting with everyone else.

if there is any downside to attending cranbrook, short of the pricetag [[which, admittedly, is ridiculous - i was lucky enough to come from a wealthy family, so my parents were able to afford the full tuition, but it cost more to send me to cranbrook for four years than it did to send me to a small liberal arts college afterward), i haven't seen it. i will say that, outside of the midwest, employers are not as moved by the name on a resume as the school would lead prospective students to believe, but that is absolutely where the downsides end.

Possibly, but man, those private schools schools on the East Coast seem to produce a lot of braggarts. I'll never forget the very first orientation at my fed job a while back. This green kid stood up and without a beat said his name and college and then, without missing a beat, boasted he attended Choate. The HR directors looked him dead in the eye and told him "well aren't you special." Yea his East Coast prep school-based ego was completely deflated in about 6 seconds. Would you even mention if you attended Cranbrook or Choate for HS on your LinkedIn profile?

[Bham1982]

[ Would you even mention if you attended Cranbrook or Choate for HS on your LinkedIn profile?

I doubt too many people post their high school.

Though at least with Choate you can say the name has been immortalized. Choate was of course featured in Catcher in the Rye.

[Hermod]

LOL. Tell that to ee cummmings.

DPS actually used to be superior to the suburban schools. In the 1950's and 60's, the biggest feeder school to University of Michigan was Mumford High School. If you met a Jewish kid from Metro Detroit at U-M back then, you could pretty much bank on them being a Mumford grad.

Suburbanites paid a tuition fee to send their kids to DPS high schools because the smaller suburban schools lacked the academic programs the larger DPS schools had. In most DPS high schools, you could take four years of Latin, German, Spanish, or French while in a lot of suburban high schools you would only be able to take two years of Latin and maybe two years of one or two of the others. Rochester High School was an antiquated dump with very inadequate facilities back in the day.

[knwb]

Ooh. You sure schooled me, downtownguy. Yesireebob, shamed right up.

Apologies for brain-frenzies, the all-lower-case thing is just force of habit. I'll try to capitalize properly from here on out.

I've seen a lot of private school braggy stuff on the east coast [[where I live now), I can't explain it. I feel like that was more a product of the days when job-hunting meant going door-to-door and some manager would say, "Milton Academy? Get that boy a corner office!" In the age of Linkedin and Indeed and all that, I have to imagine unless you're a very recent college graduate with no job experience, that any employer who saw someone's highschool listed on their CV would just laugh.

[Detroitnerd]

Having gone to Cranbrook might be a problem in your rap battle at the Shelter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylkOAtifuJ0#t=7m36s

[Bham1982]

Having gone to Cranbrook might be a problem in your rap battle at the Shelter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylkOAtifuJ0#t=7m36s

LOL, yeah, forgot about that one.

Papa Doc > Holden Caulfield

[DetroitPlanner]

I graduated from Cooley High School. They taught me how to use capital letters.

LOL! Cody was my summer school and even I know that. I did go to a private school, but that was only because my parents wanted the nuns to beat me and the priests to molest me.

Clarence, parents!!

[knwb]

having gone to cranbrook might be a problem in your rap battle at the shelter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylkoatifuj0#t=7m36s

hahahahahaha

[anonJD]

Thank you all for the responses.

I am sort of confused on the difference between Country Day and Cranbrook. The both seem fairly equivalent, cost the same, produce relatively the same outcomes, and are within a very close proximity of each other. Notre Dame Prep and Brother Rice/Marian seem like fairly strong schools too.

I assume UD-Jesuit pulls mostly from Palmer Woods, Indian Village and the Pointes?

There are two execs – modest, straight shooters – at my office who send their kids to Cranbrook and they live in Birmingham and Bloomfield Twp. I have to assume they see some benefit over their top 5 publics schools. Looking at the ACT outcomes on freep.com, CK and DCD avg 28-29 on the ACT and B'ham and Bloomfield publics avg 25.

Some asked if people put these schools on their LinkedIn: Yes. I've seen preps, including these two, many times. Mostly people with very strong resumes.

I wonder where the bottom quartile of Cranbrook and DCD end up going to college? Is UMaa the worst case if you pay $100,000 for high school?

[Bham1982]

Thank you all for the responses.

I am sort of confused on the difference between Country Day and Cranbrook. The both seem fairly equivalent, cost the same, produce relatively the same outcomes, and are within a very close proximity of each other.

They definitely have somewhat different reputations.

Cranbrook draws more heavily from immediate surroundings [[Bloomfield-Birmingham), is richer, local students are traditionally more WASP and less diverse [[somewhat fewer black, Asian, Jewish and international).

Country Day draws from a wider geography [[lots of Detroit kids esp. Palmer Woods area and lots of Asian kids from all over the region), has a reputation for stronger academics and stronger sports programs, has less social prestige, and is slightly cheaper. Facilities are slightly worse at Country Day. You get a fair number of upper middle class kids at Country Day, Cranbrook tends to be rich kids or those on scholarship.

Country Day also gets more of the "expat" crowd. You know, the German family in the metro area for 3-4 years while parent works at some management level auto industry employer.

Notre Dame Prep and Brother Rice/Marian seem like fairly strong schools too.

Grew up in Bloomfield/Birmingham and never heard of anyone attending Notre Dame Prep. Don't even know where it is. Brother Rice/Marian are the default local Catholic schools and tons of kids go there. They have nowhere near the academic reputations of Cranbrook/Country Day, though. Simply not comparable.

I assume UD-Jesuit pulls mostly from Palmer Woods, Indian Village and the Pointes?

UD-Jesuit pulls very heavily from Oakland County I think, as I knew lots of kids attending back 15 years ago. I remember they even ran buses from Bloomfield area. I doubt kids from Indian Village or the Pointes would attend U-D in huge numbers, as it's the other side of town, and there are plenty of Catholic Schools on the East Side.

There are two execs – modest, straight shooters – at my office who send their kids to Cranbrook and they live in Birmingham and Bloomfield Twp. I have to assume they see some benefit over their top 5 publics schools. Looking at the ACT outcomes on freep.com, CK and DCD avg 28-29 on the ACT and B'ham and Bloomfield publics avg 25.

Why would higher average ACT scores necessarily indicate stronger individual academic outcomes? Cranbrook/Country Day aren't public schools and don't take all comers. A public school is required to educate and test everyone, so the average tests scores will likely be lower, because there is a "bottom cohort" not existing at a small, selective admission private school. But I would be very surprised if the top half of students at Cranbrook/Country Day were any stronger than the top half of students at Bloomfield, Seaholm or Troy. When I attended the former Andover High, we had more kids attending the Ivies than either Cranbrook or Country Day, and more kids attending Michigan than any school in Oakland County. But we also had dropouts and poor performing kids who didn't go on to college, which would be unheard of at Cranbrook/Country Day.

Also, keep in mind that it depends where you live in Birmingham/Bloomfield. Parts of Bloomfield [[including an estate section, with giant homes) attend Pontiac schools. Many people also think the western half of Birmingham district [[basically the Groves-attending half) has declined. I don't know if this is true, but it probably isn't coincidential that the rich parts of the Groves-attending half [[basically Franklin/Bingham Farms area) tends to be very heavily Cranbrook/DCD.

I wonder where the bottom quartile of Cranbrook and DCD end up going to college? Is UMaa the worst case if you pay $100,000 for high school?

Heck no. Not everyone in these schools is smart, and plenty of kids go to good but nonelite schools. MSU is probably the most common school. Tons of kids go to random, good but not necessarily elite private schools [[places like Albion and Kalamazoo in Michigan, and similar types of schools spread throughout the U.S.). You probably don't have a ton of Cranbrook kids going to places like Wayne, Oakland, and Eastern, though.

I'm not a parent yet, but if my objective were to get my kids the best possible education, and into the best possible college, I personally wouldn't send kids somewhere like Cranbrook or Country Day, if I were already in a top school district, even if money were no object. The exception would be in cases where I thought the kid was being left behind in public school and needed individual attention. Public schools are more "real world", IMO, and there is no disadvantage for university admissions.

If I were in a less than top-tier district, and could afford it, yeah, I would consider these schools. I would personally probably go for Country Day, because it has a slightly stronger academic reputation, and is incredibly diverse.

[DTWflyer]

Again, pretty much agree with Bham1982's assessment. I grew up in the vicinity of all of these schools and knew people that went to each one, and am still friends with successful people today out of them all. I was a product of one of these top-tier public schools and frankly I could not imagine how a private school would've prepared me any better.

Cranbrook is definetely a WASPy type of campus. About as elitist as they go in the region, but it is a very good school and is able to provide a fine arts, sciences, and acadamic experience that is unique on its own. They have small class sizes, and provide a curiculum that is rigerous and frankly in my opinion prepares people very well to excess in a liberal arts college. It really is more like a small college experience but in high school.

Detroit Country Day is an excellent school, but is not Cranbrook [[and doesn't have the price of Cranbrook). DCD provides more of the traditional private school experience, without such any of the religious aspects found at a Catholic school. DCD has a bigger and more well known athletic program, which often lures talented students from the surrounding area since DCD is known by colleges as a place to seek talent and offer scholarships. DCD is much more diverse than any of the other private schools in that area of Oakland County too. It tends to draw ex-pats, and also minorities from the upper-middle and upper class. Either people who live in areas where the local schools are not as strong [[e.g, Southfield, DPS, Oak Park) or where they many not feel comfortable in the public schools that lack diversity [[e.g., Birmingham, Bloomfield)

Brother Rice and Marian are the default local Catholic schools for the Birmingham, Bloomfield crowd. They tend to have good test scores because they pull from an area of affluence. Their facilities are pretty poor in comparison to public schools. They are really no different or any better than the public schools in Birmingham, Bloomfield, Troy, West Bloomfield, etc. I think it tends to be those who want to send their kids to Catholic school, because they went to Catholic school. There tends to be feeling a faux exclusivity and arrogance from the Brother Rice/Marian crowd. I never understood why there was such a rift against the kids at Seaholm and Groves. Rice and Marian reminded me of a high school version of a fraternity or sorority. Like their public school counterparts, they send a lot of kids to U of M and MSU every year.

U of D, I don't know as much about. I see a ton of cars headed down Woodward Ave very morning with U of D stickers full of high school kids. Leads me to believe that most come from Oakland County.

Notre Dame Prep was traditionally a small Catholic school on the north side of Pontiac, but got a huge boom in the late 90s with all of the North Oakland County sprawl. This is the default catholic school for the Rochester Hills, Oakland Township, Clarkston area. It is off Perry Street, near Opdyke / I-75, not far from the Palace. This is kind of a new-money Catholic school, that benefited by being near the building boom of the past 20 years. I never knew anymore who went there went I was in school but I see their car stickers everywhere and hear about their sports teams often.


Yes, the whole test scores thing is misleading because private schools by nature are more selective and don't get the "bottom half" of the normal distribution. Even in comparison to the top-tier school districts in the state. They don't get the students whose parents do not place a priority on education. After all a parent isn't going to pay thousands of dollars per year in tuition and not place any value on their child's performance.