8 mile over hall rd?

[animatedmartian]

Here is an interesting tidbit; if you drive a regular speed and there are few people driving like idiots, you should be able to make it all the way from Grand River to Harper Woods without stopping on I-94. If I am not mistaken the speed is 38 [[or is it 48?) mph. I have not done it for a while, but a traffic engineering course I took years ago was taught by the guy who set the signals. May sound slow, but it beats diverting and getting caught by lights.

I can usually catch all greens going 40 mph. Except coming east, I always get stopped at Gratiot. I also get caught by the train crossing at near Grosebeck fairly often.

[Jimaz]

...West of Utica at some point M-59 changed from "Hall Road" to "Auburn Road".

Farther west of Utica, Auburn Rd. is a mile north of where Hall Rd. would be if extended due westward but Auburn does indeed veer northwest from Hall. Was Auburn Rd. ever officially designated as M-59? It wouldn't surprise me if it were. I recall driving from Utica to Oakland U. in 1971 and Auburn seemed the only reasonable route. I think the M-59 expressway was in an intermediate stage of construction at that time.

Here's a screenshot of the DTE aerial photo from 1967:

Attachment 24582

It looks like Dobry turned south at Ryan in 1967.

At Hall Rd.'s latitude today, Dobry parallels the M-59 expressway westward from Utica until Dequindre then becomes South Blvd through Woodward south of Pontiac.

[Hermod]

Auburn Road was M-59 before the expressway was built. West of Utica, Auburn Road did a dogleg north.

In 1950, my grandfather semi-retired and my grandmother pushed for country living. They bought a farmhouse and barn north of Rochester from an estate. They moved out there from St Clair south of Warren on the east side. When we would go out there to visit them, we would take Whittier to Hayes, Hayes to 8-Mile, 8-Mile to Mound, and Mound to Auburn. Mound Road at the time dead ended at Auburn with just fields further north. We then took Auburn to Rochester Rd and up to my grandparents. Mound Road was four lane divided up to 14 mile and two lane above that. Auburn and Rochester Rd were two lane except for four lanes in Rochester proper.

[Jimaz]

Auburn Road was M-59 before the expressway was built. West of Utica, Auburn Road did a dogleg north....

Yes, that confirms my memory too. Thanks.

... and Mound to Auburn. Mound Road at the time dead ended at Auburn with just fields further north....

Due to the Clinton River. Yes. Then Mound Rd. continues beyond that river, north of 22 Mi.

It's amazing how we grow/flow around that pesky river even to this day. It will outlast us all.

[Mikeg]

1916 Utica area road map:



1932 Utica area road map:

[animatedmartian]

It seems like they could have easily routed M-59 around Utica instead of through it. The town was small enough as it is. Must be why M-53 pulls out to the east of Van Dyke?

Also the maps seem to show Auburn Road and 21 Mile connected yet there seems to be no evidence of a road crossing the Clinton River there.

[Hermod]

It seems like they could have easily routed M-59 around Utica instead of through it. The town was small enough as it is. Must be why M-53 pulls out to the east of Van Dyke?

At one time, the major roads went through the center of towns and villages. US-10 [[Woodward
Ave) was the main street of Detroit. US-10 was the main street of Birmingham, Pontiac, and Flint. US-12 [[Michigan Ave went west and was the main street of every city west to Chicago [[Jackson, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo).

[animatedmartian]

At one time, the major roads went through the center of towns and villages. US-10 [[Woodward
Ave) was the main street of Detroit. US-10 was the main street of Birmingham, Pontiac, and Flint. US-12 [[Michigan Ave went west and was the main street of every city west to Chicago [[Jackson, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo).

Yea, I know with Woodward the city of Birmingham fought to divert the widened portion of Woodward to the east of old Woodward, though hard to say that really did much since it still create a huge gash through the city.

That still doesn't really explain why the M-59 expressway was decided to follow the same route while M-53 was split from Van Dyke. If the area was mostly farmland at the time of planning/construction, I'd imagine it wouldn't have been that hard to bypass Utica.

[DTWflyer]

The historical routing of M-59 from Pontiac to Mt. Clemens was along Auburn Road east, to where it bends to the Southeast between Ryan and Mound Rd. This is due to the Clinton River.
Auburn Road the turned back due east at the railroad tracks, crossed the Clinton River and ran into Van Dyke in the downtown village of Utica. Then M-59 followed Hall Road east of of Utica.


By the mid/late 1950s, they had already identified the upgrade of M-59 to an expressway.

In the late 1950s they built the original bypass around downtown Utica as this was the main throughfare across Northern Oakland and Macomb County from Pontiac to Mt. Clemens. The problem was that Auburn and Hall Road couldn't be widened through downtown Utica and also they didn't directly line-up, there was a slight jog at Van Dyke. So they built the bypass just south of the downtown area along the current alignment that M-59 follows from Mound to Van Dyke. At that time it was just a four lane divided highway, not a depressed urban freeway. This was a challenging area because the village of Utica has existed since the late 1800s and was already well developed by the 1950s, the Clinton River and challenging terrain along the valley, the railroad, and also the State Recreation area along the river.

In the mid-60s they built the expressway from east of Pontiac out to Rochester Road, then the early/mid 1970s the built the next section from Rochester Road to Mound.

Then in the mid and late 90s they did the whole eastern section into 6-8 lane divided highway, widened and depressed the Utica bypass section between Mound and Van Dyke.

Then in the early 2000s had to come back and widen/reconstruct the original sections of M-59 and then just a few years ago add the third lane to the sections between Rochester and Mound.

M-53 expressway was much easier to locate since they didn't have the river/topography issues to deal with, plus there was nothing to east of Utica at the time, so land acquistion was much easier.

[1953]

Thank you everyone for the history lesson. I was a small child in the late 80s and early 90s and I remember driving to the Farm Bureau on the west side of Utica along Auburn Road. It was amazing to watch the transformation of that area from two lane country roads to depressed freeways and divided boulevards. Its fascinating to learn how long that project had been in the works, and why it played out as it did. To this day, I still recall vividly the farmland on the north side of Hall Rd at Delco that is now a massive big box outlet with a Best Buy, Office Max, etc. Ah, memories.

[DetroitPlanner]

Not to digress too much but there is a great website that is maintained by a Grand Rapids area transportation planner/cartographer. http://michiganhighways.org/

BTW, 8 Mile is M-102 and Hall is M-59 [[most likely you knew but some may not).

[erikd]

I don't like Hall Rd but apparently many do. If, in 30 years or so, 8 Mile was like Hall Rd I'm pretty sure people around here would throw a frickin parade.

It is unlikely that we will be building too many places that look like Hall Road in 30 years.

Sixty years ago, the American retail landscape was largely centered in downtowns, main streets, and neighborhood storefronts. The rise of enclosed suburban shopping malls virtually wiped out traditional downtown/mainstreet/neighborhood storefront retail over a period of 20-30 years. Over the last 20-30 years, we have seen the rise of big-box/discount retailers, and the widespread decline of department stores and enclosed regional shopping malls. The current trend of big-box retailers and outdoor outlet malls may dominate the retail landscape right now, but it is unlikely that they will continue to do so in the decades to come.

The relatively new, but rapidly increasing, demand for a return to downtown/mainstreet/neighborhood storefront retail is likely to continue to gain steam in the foreseeable future, but the real game-changer will be the explosive growth of online retail.

We have already seen Netflix and iTunes essentially eliminate brick-and-mortar video and record stores over the last decade. Amazon is close to doing the same thing with book stores. It is extremely likely that the same thing will soon happen to the national big-box chains selling electronics, appliances, toys, office supplies, shoes, and a vast majority of other retail goods.

It is extremely unlikely that the standard American retail landscape will look anything like 2014 Hall Road in 20-30 years.

[DetroitPlanner]

I agree erikd, areas with large concentrations of retail space are doomed to become eyesores.

[Danny]

After Hall Rd. [[the New 8 Mile Rd.) was completed, all the sudden Lakeside Mall pop up. The Christopher Columbus extra highway came in. The comes suburban sprawl, McMansions, super condos, mega apartments complexes and miles of big box sprawl-marts, restaurants serving rapidly prepared food and billboards for miles around. Traffic congestion will pile up. Farmlands will disappear.

That explains about suburban sprawl growth in Macomb TWP. from Hall Rd. to 26 Mile Rd. It's the time where middle class white folks want to get far, far away from Detroit as possible.