8 mile over hall rd?

**boater4life** · October-07-14, 08:19 PM

Does anyone think that one day 8 mile will become like a new hall road as people move back into the city? I always thought it had so much potential as a semi-major east west route and that stores could thrive along this area.

**animatedmartian** · October-07-14, 09:24 PM

Hall Road should not be what 8 Mile should strive for.

**Cliffy** · October-07-14, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Hall Road should not be what 8 Mile should strive for.

Yeah I think it should strive for that because it means people are buying stuff. The current 8 mile is a big dump.

**animatedmartian** · October-07-14, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Yeah I think it should strive for that because it means people are buying stuff. The current 8 mile is a big dump.

But also traffic on Hall Road is horrible and is mostly made up of parking lots. At least there are pedestrians on 8 Mile [[although that might not be so good since everyone drives 60 along 8 Mile).

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-07-14, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But also traffic on Hall Road is horrible and is mostly made up of parking lots. At least there are pedestrians on 8 Mile [[although that might not be so good since everyone drives 60 along 8 Mile).

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

Maybe we should take the money we save on doing a half-@$$ job on I-94 and use it to acheive your dream!

**animatedmartian** · October-07-14, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Maybe we should take the money we save on doing a half-@$$ job on I-94 and use it to acheive your dream!

Yes, the dreams of the completion of an incomplete freeway is quite a big one for me.

**courtney** · October-08-14, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

But also traffic on Hall Road is horrible and is mostly made up of parking lots. At least there are pedestrians on 8 Mile [[although that might not be so good since everyone drives 60 along 8 Mile).

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

I'd always heard when I first moved here [[in 1999, soon after they'd finished extending the freeway portion to Van Dyke and making the remainder to 94 6 lanes instead of the former 2) that the plan had originally been to extend the freeway all the way to 94 but they ended up finding out that because of the soil, it would be too costly to continue it as a freeway. I always thought that sounded plausible, since I see more herons in the median wetland areas on that road than I do on the shores of Lake St Clair.

Anyone know if this is one of those urban legends or if this was actually what happened?

And as an aside, I remember the first time I came to Michigan, in July of 1999. My now-husband took me to Lakeside, taking Mound up to Hall Road. I joked that he was taking me out to the middle of nowhere to kill me. Now, I want to die a little bit every time I'm forced to take Hall Road anywhere, for any reason. It's horrific.

**mikeg19** · October-08-14, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by courtney

I'd always heard when I first moved here [[in 1999, soon after they'd finished extending the freeway portion to Van Dyke and making the remainder to 94 6 lanes instead of the former 2) that the plan had originally been to extend the freeway all the way to 94 but they ended up finding out that because of the soil, it would be too costly to continue it as a freeway. I always thought that sounded plausible, since I see more herons in the median wetland areas on that road than I do on the shores of Lake St Clair.

Anyone know if this is one of those urban legends or if this was actually what happened?

I've never heard anything regarding the soils. As far as why the freeway stops at Van Dyke, back when it was being examined to extend the freeway all the way to 94, then mayor of Utica put the kabosh on the project, as the freeway extension would have required bulldozing the southside of downtown Utica as the freeway was designed.

And regarding 8 mile rd becoming another Hall road, that must be a joke. 8 mile is a wasteland of used car lots, strip clubs, and fast food joints. Good luck convincing affluent stores to setup shop on that road. Yes, I know, I know, there is a Meijer on 8 mile now. I can only imagine what the loss prevention statistics are for that store. Maybe if Detroit neighborhoods stabilize someday and crime is driven down, 8 mile could become a shopping and entertainment mecca. But I think that is in the very, very far future.

**Scottathew** · October-08-14, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Hall Road also seems unnecessarily wide. It seems like they could build a freeway all the way through Utica to 94 but haven't done so yet.

The thought of completing the M-59 freeway to I-94 makes my heart feel joy, but then my brain says we should probably do something much more productive.

I've seen no signs that M-DOT is considering this.

**Hermod** · October-08-14, 04:13 AM

8-Mile was probably the first part of the Detroit metro area to exhibit the architectural characteristics of suburban sprawl.

**Bham1982** · October-08-14, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by boater4life

Does anyone think that one day 8 mile will become like a new hall road as people move back into the city?

You've been on DYes too long. People aren't moving back into the city. The region's core is emptying out as fast as ever.

If there were some hypothetical scenario where people were flocking to 7 Mile and 8 Mile, then obviously the commercial corridors would benefit, but no, I don't think it would be anything like Hall Road, which, while successful, is kind of nightmarish design and not really comparable to an older suburban environment like 8 Mile.

**Danny** · October-08-14, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

You've been on DYes too long. People aren't moving back into the city. The region's core is emptying out as fast as ever.

If there were some hypothetical scenario where people were flocking to 7 Mile and 8 Mile, then obviously the commercial corridors would benefit, but no, I don't think it would be anything like Hall Road, which, while successful, is kind of nightmarish design and not really comparable to an older suburban environment like 8 Mile.

You are not looking the demographics correctly. White folks who are hip cool skinny jeaned, wearing black eyeglasses, carrying satchels, drinking Starbucks Mocha-Cappuccino young professionals are moving back to Detroit, mostly from Gilberttown to Midtown.

Black folks are quickly moving out to the suburbs.

Hall Rd. is the new 8 Mile Rd. filled with 2 shopping malls and miles of big box sprawl-marts. The traffic there gets so congested that it would take you 5 minutes to drive you car across one intersection.

**DTWflyer** · October-08-14, 07:25 AM

No.

Big-box Hall Road style retail is so late 90s/early 2000s. The best case if the surrounding demographic supported it would be for a few more retail power centers. There are a lot of opportunities to remake the Northland area but no one sees any potential demand there.

8 Mile in theory should look more like Woodward between 8-14 Mile through Oakland County at it best. It probably never will though.

8 Mile is a great east-west route, and during rush hour can be faster than I-696.

Yes, I can remember when Hall Road was 2 lanes from Utica over to I-94.

**Smirnoff** · October-08-14, 07:49 AM

Any strip joints on Hall Rd.....I know the Sail Inn closed several years ago at the very end of M-59.

**Hermod** · October-08-14, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

No.
Yes, I can remember when Hall Road was 2 lanes from Utica over to I-94.

At some point east of Utica, the name changed from "Hall Road" to "Wm. P. Rosso".

West of Utica at some point M-59 changed from "Hall Road" to "Auburn Road".

**Jimaz** · October-08-14, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

...West of Utica at some point M-59 changed from "Hall Road" to "Auburn Road".

Farther west of Utica, Auburn Rd. is a mile north of where Hall Rd. would be if extended due westward but Auburn does indeed veer northwest from Hall. Was Auburn Rd. ever officially designated as M-59? It wouldn't surprise me if it were. I recall driving from Utica to Oakland U. in 1971 and Auburn seemed the only reasonable route. I think the M-59 expressway was in an intermediate stage of construction at that time.

Here's a screenshot of the DTE aerial photo from 1967:

Attachment 24582

It looks like Dobry turned south at Ryan in 1967.

At Hall Rd.'s latitude today, Dobry parallels the M-59 expressway westward from Utica until Dequindre then becomes South Blvd through Woodward south of Pontiac.

**Hermod** · October-08-14, 08:36 PM

Auburn Road was M-59 before the expressway was built. West of Utica, Auburn Road did a dogleg north.

In 1950, my grandfather semi-retired and my grandmother pushed for country living. They bought a farmhouse and barn north of Rochester from an estate. They moved out there from St Clair south of Warren on the east side. When we would go out there to visit them, we would take Whittier to Hayes, Hayes to 8-Mile, 8-Mile to Mound, and Mound to Auburn. Mound Road at the time dead ended at Auburn with just fields further north. We then took Auburn to Rochester Rd and up to my grandparents. Mound Road was four lane divided up to 14 mile and two lane above that. Auburn and Rochester Rd were two lane except for four lanes in Rochester proper.

**Jimaz** · October-08-14, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Auburn Road was M-59 before the expressway was built. West of Utica, Auburn Road did a dogleg north....

Yes, that confirms my memory too. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Hermod

... and Mound to Auburn. Mound Road at the time dead ended at Auburn with just fields further north....

Due to the Clinton River. Yes. Then Mound Rd. continues beyond that river, north of 22 Mi.

It's amazing how we grow/flow around that pesky river even to this day. It will outlast us all.

**TTime** · October-08-14, 07:53 AM

I don't like Hall Rd but apparently many do. If, in 30 years or so, 8 Mile was like Hall Rd I'm pretty sure people around here would throw a frickin parade.

**Scottathew** · October-08-14, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by TTime

I don't like Hall Rd but apparently many do. If, in 30 years or so, 8 Mile was like Hall Rd I'm pretty sure people around here would throw a frickin parade.

[sarcasm]No, hall road symbolizes all that's evil. I'd rather see 8-Mile rotting in it's current form of failed businesses and strip joints than to be a heavily trafficked commercial corridor[/sarcasm]

**erikd** · October-10-14, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by TTime

I don't like Hall Rd but apparently many do. If, in 30 years or so, 8 Mile was like Hall Rd I'm pretty sure people around here would throw a frickin parade.

It is unlikely that we will be building too many places that look like Hall Road in 30 years.

Sixty years ago, the American retail landscape was largely centered in downtowns, main streets, and neighborhood storefronts. The rise of enclosed suburban shopping malls virtually wiped out traditional downtown/mainstreet/neighborhood storefront retail over a period of 20-30 years. Over the last 20-30 years, we have seen the rise of big-box/discount retailers, and the widespread decline of department stores and enclosed regional shopping malls. The current trend of big-box retailers and outdoor outlet malls may dominate the retail landscape right now, but it is unlikely that they will continue to do so in the decades to come.

The relatively new, but rapidly increasing, demand for a return to downtown/mainstreet/neighborhood storefront retail is likely to continue to gain steam in the foreseeable future, but the real game-changer will be the explosive growth of online retail.

We have already seen Netflix and iTunes essentially eliminate brick-and-mortar video and record stores over the last decade. Amazon is close to doing the same thing with book stores. It is extremely likely that the same thing will soon happen to the national big-box chains selling electronics, appliances, toys, office supplies, shoes, and a vast majority of other retail goods.

It is extremely unlikely that the standard American retail landscape will look anything like 2014 Hall Road in 20-30 years.

**Jason** · October-08-14, 12:41 PM

8 Mile won't ever be like Hall Road, with the growth of downtown and the increased number of commuters from Oakland County, 8 Mile will experience a renaissance. 30 story love hotels, ground floor strip clubs, underground parking garages with convenient access to chop shops!

There's not really any role for 8 Mile in the future of the region. The main trend of inner ring suburbs and the city emptying out into the exurbs will continue. And the trend of people moving back into the urban core will accelerate. 8 Mile isn't on either group's radar.

**1953** · October-08-14, 12:45 PM

I'm an ardent urbanist who loves and lives in the city, but I have a soft spot in my heart for Hall Rd, where I grew up. I think its nifty.

1953

**Meddle** · October-08-14, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by boater4life

Does anyone think that one day 8 mile will become like a new hall road as people move back into the city? I always thought it had so much potential as a semi-major east west route and that stores could thrive along this area.

Just curious about your age.

Semi-major east-west route?

In my day, it WAS a major east-west route. It was the only direct route both ways. In the 70s and 80s, traveling from the far west side to Selfridge, there really wasn't any other route that made sense. I could make it from Telegraph to 94 in a half hour or so at 5AM. Once portions of 696 opened, I still ran 8 Mile to 75, then up to 696 and over to 94.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-08-14, 04:49 PM

Here is an interesting tidbit; if you drive a regular speed and there are few people driving like idiots, you should be able to make it all the way from Grand River to Harper Woods without stopping on I-94. If I am not mistaken the speed is 38 [[or is it 48?) mph. I have not done it for a while, but a traffic engineering course I took years ago was taught by the guy who set the signals. May sound slow, but it beats diverting and getting caught by lights.