PIRG: I-94 Project One of the Worst "Highway Boondoggles"

[Gpwrangler]

The comparison is somewhat specious but completely idiotic.

I-94 already exists. It therefore bears no comparison to the construction of 696. Talk of closing lanes on 696 is incendiary nonsense.

The only time you're going to encounter serious traffic on I-94 is if there is an accident, in which case an additional lane or two won't help.

"Accessibility" does not mean being able to go 70 miles per hour during rush hour, contrary to the belief of every idiot driver in Metro Detroit and the total shit-for-brains at MDOT. These morons can't even prevent the roads they have from totally disintegrating. I wouldn't trust them to bag my groceries.

Further, I actually live off of I-94 in Detroit on the eastside and I think if you don't you should screw off because it's pretty much none of your business. It's my backyard and I think it's the stupidest fucking idea since the plastic lamppost covers.

I think those of us in area around I-94 should get a vote on the issue, whether to widen I-94 or not widen it and throw rotten vegetables at MDOT executives, and I know which side would win out.

70 is the limit on most freeways. I-94 was designed long ago and needs to be updated to handle modern cars and speeds. Entrance ramps need to be lengthened to allow safe merging. The freeway bogs down for hours almost every day and there are many accidents on some of the curves.

When done it needs to look like I-96. It is a major artery from the east side through downriver and beyond.

[drjeff]

I would very much disagree with that. On a good day, by which I mean a bad day, 94 and 75 are very congested. 94 through Midtown/Eastside and 75 usually north of the Davison and south of 14 Mile. That can last for a good hour or so every morning and evening.

I drive on I-94 every morning. Yes, it is a little congested at times between I-96 and I-75. But it's rarely that bad and doesn't add a significant amount of time to the drive. Spending billions to widen it is absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine would $4 billion would do for public transit?

[Scottathew]

Can you imagine would $4 billion would do for public transit?

I would give up these two projects if it meant being able to do a subway\elevated rail\subway from Detroit to Pontiac.

[Wesley Mouch]

I drive on I-94 every morning. Yes, it is a little congested at times between I-96 and I-75. But it's rarely that bad and doesn't add a significant amount of time to the drive. Spending billions to widen it is absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine would $4 billion would do for public transit?

I can imagine it. But it doesn't have anything to do with this. If you think your power of concentrations along with every other forum member will change how we fund roads and divert it to 'public transit', you are wrong.

The money is there for roads. Don't like it. Work to change it. But in the meantime, take the cash. Take the jobs.

Yes, focusing your mind power and energy can be helpful. Focus on getting the stretch between the Lodge and Chrysler freeways to be covered as much as possible. Have MDOT consider an alternative to service drives by rehabilitating some other surface streets. Minimize the pain. That can be done. That can work.

Dreaming that road money nearly already spent is going to provide moonbeams or public transit is futile. Focus.

[iheartthed]

70 is the limit on most freeways. I-94 was designed long ago and needs to be updated to handle modern cars and speeds. Entrance ramps need to be lengthened to allow safe merging. The freeway bogs down for hours almost every day and there are many accidents on some of the curves.

When done it needs to look like I-96. It is a major artery from the east side through downriver and beyond.

Then Michigan could reduce the speed limit and save several billion dollars.

[Gpwrangler]

Then Michigan could reduce the speed limit and save several billion dollars.

^^^^^ lol nope!

[jt1]

I would give up these two projects if it meant being able to do a subway\elevated rail\subway from Detroit to Pontiac.

I like how you propose that it be a subway under the wealthier sections. Them there rich people shouldn't have to look at it but them poor folks should be happy them get it.

[downtownguy]

I like how you propose that it be a subway under the wealthier sections. Them there rich people shouldn't have to look at it but them poor folks should be happy them get it.

jt1, been to the optometrist lately?

[DetroitPlanner]

I like how you propose that it be a subway under the wealthier sections. Them there rich people shouldn't have to look at it but them poor folks should be happy them get it.

Are you saying Pontiac and Highland Park are wealthier than Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills?

[jt1]

Are you saying Pontiac and Highland Park are wealthier than Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills?

Ha, I mixed up the colors. I support this plan then.

[poobert]

70 is the limit on most freeways. I-94 was designed long ago and needs to be updated to handle modern cars and speeds.

This is, of course, more Metro Detroit provincial nonsense. I know want to absolutely FUCKING FLY from downtown to Grosse Pointe in ten minutes but there is, of course, no justification for that.

Mass Pike is 55 mph in Boston, as just one example of many, and picks up outside the city. There is no logical or sane reason any human being needs to go 70 through a major American city. To actively engineer such a project is an exercise in stupidity, which MDOT is more than well-versed at.

So spare me your crap about modern cars. Modern cars don't need to go 85 mph at all times.

[dtowncitylover]

When done it needs to look like I-96. It is a major artery from the east side through downriver and beyond.

That's the last thing we need. Another Jeffries Freeway of 10 lanes just because.

[Scottathew]

I like how you propose that it be a subway under the wealthier sections. Them there rich people shouldn't have to look at it but them poor folks should be happy them get it.

It's actually the opposite. The wealthier places have elevated on my map.

My main determination for elevated vs. subway was population density and existing median right-of-way.

In the past I've drawn up maps where the system detours and goes through Downtown Royal Oak.


I feel that many of areas surrounding the line would become very desirable, like in NYC where you want to be close to the subway. Ferndale, Royal Oak, Pleasant Ridge, Huntington Woods, and Berkley would see land values elevate close to the line.

[ghettopalmetto]

The money is there for roads. Don't like it. Work to change it. But in the meantime, take the cash. Take the jobs.

Oh, the money is totally there. The Highway Trust Fund isn't running massive deficits or anything.

[DetroitPlanner]

Ha, I mixed up the colors. I support this plan then.

So what your saying is we need to discriminate against the rich?

[jt1]

So what your saying is we need to discriminate against the rich?

Yes [[Of course, I am kidding)

[mtburb]

I would give up these two projects if it meant being able to do a subway\elevated rail\subway from Detroit to Pontiac.

There's this. It not only includes that line, but it also includes other subway lines that extend Downriver, into the east side and even to Metro Airport and into Canada.

EDIT: My interpretation combining the map in that thread with yours. Red is underground, blue is ground-level within a freeway median and green is elevated.

[Gpwrangler]

This is, of course, more Metro Detroit provincial nonsense. I know want to absolutely FUCKING FLY from downtown to Grosse Pointe in ten minutes but there is, of course, no justification for that.

Mass Pike is 55 mph in Boston, as just one example of many, and picks up outside the city. There is no logical or sane reason any human being needs to go 70 through a major American city.

So spare me your crap about modern cars. Modern cars don't need to go 85 mph at all times.

70 is what modern highways are designed for. We don't drive Delta 88s anymore. And time is money. 55mph in the D? Better be in the right lane. Even the trucks pass me when I slow to 65 [[only where legal of course). Slow speeds are actually a hazard.

[Scottathew]

There's this. It not only includes that line, but it also includes other subway lines that extend Downriver, into the east side and even to Metro Airport and into Canada.

EDIT: My interpretation combining the map in that thread with yours. Red is underground, blue is ground-level within a freeway median and green is elevated.

I love the map!

Imagine having select stations with large parking decks where you can park and ride the subway\train.

For me I could drive from Rochester Hills to Troy, park, and then ride all the way to the CBD, and do it all in less time that what it takes me to drive.

The big thing the region needs to do is have mass transit that is NOT at-grade. When mass-transit is faster, people will flock to it.

[DetroitPlanner]

There's this. It not only includes that line, but it also includes other subway lines that extend Downriver, into the east side and even to Metro Airport and into Canada.

EDIT: My interpretation combining the map in that thread with yours. Red is underground, blue is ground-level within a freeway median and green is elevated.

Looks like you stole it from SEMCOG's map. http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/...GA_Handout.pdf

[ghettopalmetto]

70 is what modern highways are designed for. We don't drive Delta 88s anymore. And time is money. 55mph in the D? Better be in the right lane. Even the trucks pass me when I slow to 65 [[only where legal of course). Slow speeds are actually a hazard.

The street on which you live: What's that like? Do you live on a 70mph road? Because if you don't, I imagine that you get into accidents every damn day, don't you?

Sorry, man. For $4 billion, you could fill every pothole in Southeast Michigan. You could build a statewide commuter rail network, subsidize the fares for several decades, and have money left over. You could build 100 miles of double-tracked light rail. You could build SIX Ilitchlands. You could restore TWENTY Michigan Central Stations.

Hell, the new international terminal at Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport only cost $1.2 billion. You could build THREE of those for less than these two outdated, unneeded road projects that won't do a single thing to ease traffic congestion in the long term.

But hey, we get it. Who doesn't like cracking open a cold brewski or two and slamming down the highway unimpeded at 70 mph? We all have our God-given American dreams, right? And what's a little thing like money to get in the way of our dreams? Widen I-94, and we can pretend we're MF James Dean, man. And isn't that truly priceless?

[Islandman]

Thanks GP. Of the hundred of hours I've probably spent on 94, I've never had an issue with the freeway not letting me go fast enough, unless there was a traffic jam.

It ain't the autobahn, and if going 80-100 isn't fast enough for you, there's a whole country called Germany that can sort you out.

[Bham1982]

The big thing the region needs to do is have mass transit that is NOT at-grade. When mass-transit is faster, people will flock to it.

Speed has almost nothing to do with mass transit ridership. Even transit quality has little to do with transit ridership.

The biggest factor, by far, in driving transit ridership is making driving difficult. Until then, you can build subways from here to Saginaw, won't make the region transit-oriented.

[Gpwrangler]

The street on which you live: What's that like? Do you live on a 70mph road? Because if you don't, I imagine that you get into accidents every damn day, don't you?

Sorry, man. For $4 billion, you could fill every pothole in Southeast Michigan. You could build a statewide commuter rail network, subsidize the fares for several decades, and have money left over. You could build 100 miles of double-tracked light rail. You could build SIX Ilitchlands. You could restore TWENTY Michigan Central Stations.

Hell, the new international terminal at Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport only cost $1.2 billion. You could build THREE of those for less than these two outdated, unneeded road projects that won't do a single thing to ease traffic congestion in the long term.

But hey, we get it. Who doesn't like cracking open a cold brewski or two and slamming down the highway unimpeded at 70 mph? We all have our God-given American dreams, right? And what's a little thing like money to get in the way of our dreams? Widen I-94, and we can pretend we're MF James Dean, man. And isn't that truly priceless?

You're getting ridiculous. What stupid exaggerations. The road needs improvement, MDOT will do it. Deal with it and quit making stuff up.

[Bham1982]

Thanks GP. Of the hundred of hours I've probably spent on 94, I've never had an issue with the freeway not letting me go fast enough, unless there was a traffic jam.

Do people just outright lie on DYes?

Anyone who has exited or entered I-94, from I-75 or the Lodge, at any time of day, 24/7, 365, has slowed down to deal with I-94's deficiencies.

If they didn't slow down they would probably be dead. This is true at 4 AM as it is at rush hour. The freeway is clearly not built to the same standard as all other local freeways.