PIRG: I-94 Project One of the Worst "Highway Boondoggles"

[ghettopalmetto]

The argument is that when you spend 4 billion dollars on something, that it could have been spent elsewhere.

However, what would the cost of needed maintenance without the extra lanes and modernization costs? I'm sure it would be less, but it would be interesting to know exactly how much.

It would be interesting to see what the maintenance costs are. I'm sure the property condemnation, addition of lanes, addition of service drives, and reconstruction of new [[longer) overpasses adds up to be quite a bit of cash.

The proposed I-75 project, on the other hand, is pure widening.

It's comical, though. These projects were proposed under the assumption that vehicle-miles traveled [[VMT) would have increased 11% by now. VMT has actually *decreased* 14% since these projects were proposed. So yeah, these widenings are totally unnecessary. It blows my mind that [[supposedly) rational engineers can stick to obviously broken models and flawed assumptions in the face of all evidence. That's not engineering--that's dogma.

[Wesley Mouch]

It would be interesting to see what the maintenance costs are. I'm sure the property condemnation, addition of lanes, addition of service drives, and reconstruction of new [[longer) overpasses adds up to be quite a bit of cash.

The proposed I-75 project, on the other hand, is pure widening.

It's comical, though. These projects were proposed under the assumption that vehicle-miles traveled [[VMT) would have increased 11% by now. VMT has actually *decreased* 14% since these projects were proposed. So yeah, these widenings are totally unnecessary. It blows my mind that [[supposedly) rational engineers can stick to obviously broken models and flawed assumptions in the face of all evidence. That's not engineering--that's dogma.

Most think that the financial crisis is not permanent, and that we will yet see the increases in traffic. Isn't that what we want, after all. More jobs, traffic, people, cars, trains, boats, bridges.... MORE!

I don't think there's a serious thought that better times are gone for good. So we still need to get ready. That's not dogma. That's planning.

[ghettopalmetto]

Most think that the financial crisis is not permanent, and that we will yet see the increases in traffic. Isn't that what we want, after all. More jobs, traffic, people, cars, trains, boats, bridges.... MORE!

I don't think there's a serious thought that better times are gone for good. So we still need to get ready. That's not dogma. That's planning.

Who said that the decrease in traffic is due strictly to the 2008 financial crisis? If that were the case, we'd have seen a gradual increase in traffic as the economy has recovered. This has not happened.

Michigan needs to plan for the future. And that future includes an entire generation for whom car ownership is not a priority, where alternate means of transportation are used, and the suburbs have less and less appeal. That's not a temporary blip--that's a wholesale change in how human habitats are constructed. Retention of the 1950s-era planning models that MDOT uses would be a tragic and expensive mistake.

But honestly, I think the FHWA will save MDOT from itself. Realistically, there's no way federal funding for these projects comes through.

[Scottathew]

The proposed I-75 project, on the other hand, is pure widening.

That's mostly, but not entirely true.

The I-75 project includes some modernization and safety upgrades.

- Braiding of the NB-75 to 11 Mile exit ramp, so that 11 mile traffic exit before [[and goes under) the traffic coming from I-696. This would eliminate the mile long weave-merge lane and stop people from "cheating" too

- Elimination of the WB 12 Mile to SB I-75 loop ramp. This will make it so you no longer have traffic entering on the bridge going 50 mph slower than traffic on the highway. All traffic going to SB-75 at 12 Mile will use the same, long straight ramp

- Elimination of all left-side activities at the Square Lake Road interchange. NB-75 to Square Lake will exit on the right. Square Lake to NB-75 will enter on the right. This will also eliminate the 4-lane dash when trying to go from Square Lake to EB M-59

But other than that, it's pure widening. Very little ROW acquisition will be needed, but one of the few ones needed will unfortunately be a church in Madison Heights that's right on the service drive where they need extra space for the braiding.

Most of the land for the widening will come from the embankments [[south of 12 Mile) or from the median [[north of 12 Mile).

[ghettopalmetto]

But other than that, it's pure widening. Very little ROW acquisition will be needed, but one of the few ones needed will unfortunately be a church in Madison Heights that's right on the service drive where they need extra space for the braiding.

Most of the land for the widening will come from the embankments [[south of 12 Mile) or from the median [[north of 12 Mile).

= Retaining walls. Not cheap.

[Scottathew]

= Retaining walls. Not cheap.

South of 12, yes. North of 12 there will be the extra expense of putting in a drainage system to make up for the median being gone, as that's where a lot of the water currently goes.

Page 3 [[numbered as 2) of this document highlights that: http://michigan.gov/documents/mdot/M...6_420756_7.pdf