Detroit should have a MLB National League team.

[Bham1982]

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/detatte.shtml

Not really. 2014 numbers aren't in yet, but based on this chart, the Tigers' attendance has been above league average for 70% of their years in existence.

Ok, but what is the comparison to MLB attendance? AL trails NL in attendance.

And what does that 70% mean? Is the average attendance lower? You could have higher attendance 70% of the time and still lower average attendance.

In any case, this is a silly discussion. NYC and LA are probably the only two markets that can successfully support two MLB teams. Chicago, Bay Area, and DC-Balt [[if you want to consider that a "market"), all have one team with permanent attendance problems.

[jackie5275]

Ok, but what is the comparison to MLB attendance? AL trails NL in attendance.

And what does that 70% mean? Is the average attendance lower? You could have higher attendance 70% of the time and still lower average attendance.

In any case, this is a silly discussion. NYC and LA are probably the only two markets that can successfully support two MLB teams. Chicago, Bay Area, and DC-Balt [[if you want to consider that a "market"), all have one team with permanent attendance problems.

That is your consistent MO, criticize or dismiss when your unsupported statements are shown to be inaccurate.

[Bham1982]

That is your consistent MO, criticize or dismiss when your unsupported statements are shown to be inaccurate.

Not my fault you never took Stats 101.

But hey, if you think the above shows average attendance then you fit in perfectly in SE Michigan.

[Bham1982]

http://www.captainsblog.info/2012/02...am_avg_attend/

And here's the actual data- this is average attendance per season, per team, for all years, for entire MLB.

Detroit is closer to the bottom than the top. It's a bit unfair, in that attendance has gradually risen over time, so the old-school teams will have somewhat lower weighting. But Detroit has not really been a positive outlier in terms of attendance until very recently.

[dtowncitylover]

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/detatte.shtml

Not really. 2014 numbers aren't in yet, but based on this chart, the Tigers' attendance has been above league average for 70% of their years in existence. What makes up the 30%, most years from the early 1900s when MLB itself was just getting started, a few years during the depression, and of course years when their playing was really bad. Depsite that, they've never failed to draw 1 million plus fans every year since 1965.

That's awesome! Though I wish they'd include Ontario as well. Would it be that hard to collect their postal codes? I'd love to see Essex County numbers.

[DetroitPlanner]

That's awesome! Though I wish they'd include Ontario as well. Would it be that hard to collect their postal codes? I'd love to see Essex County numbers.

Essex County including Windsor is just shy of 400,000 residents [[389k in 2011). Interestingly enough even though Windsor is in Essex County for all practical purposes it is autonomous. This is even true to how Stats Canada treats it.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Honestly, when you have the weather and geographic features of California at your doorstep, sports just aren't as exciting. There's a reason the Rust Belt is known for its rabid support of its sport teams.

I agree. That's why LA has a hard time supporting a NFL team. The Raiders moved to LA in the 80's and when attendance lagged, moved back to Oakland. Too many people would rather go to the beach and other activities, instead of going to a football game.

[mtburb]

I agree. That's why LA has a hard time supporting a NFL team. The Raiders moved to LA in the 80's and when attendance lagged, moved back to Oakland. Too many people would rather go to the beach and other activities, instead of going to a football game.

The Rams also played in LA for a while and eventually moved to a Rust Belt city [[Saint Louis) at the same time as the Raiders.

[dtowncitylover]

Essex County including Windsor is just shy of 400,000 residents [[389k in 2011). Interestingly enough even though Windsor is in Essex County for all practical purposes it is autonomous. This is even true to how Stats Canada treats it.

Yeah I know. I meant the numbers vis-a-vis Tigers and Jays fans.

[emu steve]

In all due respect to this thread, but the Ilitches have territorial rights for the area it would be a cold day in hell when they let another franchise infringe on their market.

There are still simmering skirmishes between the Orioles and Nats because the Nats moved into the O's territory and the compensation claims [[O's vs. Nats) are still problematic.

[iheartthed]

http://www.captainsblog.info/2012/02...am_avg_attend/

And here's the actual data- this is average attendance per season, per team, for all years, for entire MLB.

Detroit is closer to the bottom than the top. It's a bit unfair, in that attendance has gradually risen over time, so the old-school teams will have somewhat lower weighting. But Detroit has not really been a positive outlier in terms of attendance until very recently.

Uh, you do realize that is incredibly biased towards younger organizations, don't you? The two teams with the highest attendance were founded in the 90s...

[jackie5275]

http://www.captainsblog.info/2012/02...am_avg_attend/

And here's the actual data- this is average attendance per season, per team, for all years, for entire MLB.

Detroit is closer to the bottom than the top. It's a bit unfair, in that attendance has gradually risen over time, so the old-school teams will have somewhat lower weighting. But Detroit has not really been a positive outlier in terms of attendance until very recently.

Actually, I did take stats 101 and know how info can be skewed to prove a point as what you're doing here. Your link has info from early 2012 which shows that the info is only as recent as 2011. This shows me you just scrambled to get some outdated info to support your position because you were challenged on it. I never said Detroit was always at or near the top. I just said their attendance hasn't been mediocre.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The Rams also played in LA for a while and eventually moved to a Rust Belt city [[Saint Louis) at the same time as the Raiders.

That's right, forgot about the Rams who started their franchise in LA. Good call.

[mtburb]

That's right, forgot about the Rams who started their franchise in LA. Good call.

And don't forget that the people who would've likely showed up at a football game likely missed part of it since they wound up right in the middle of a parking lot on their as-wide-as-I-96 freeway network trying to get to the Coliseum from their homes in their miles-long-and-seemengly-endless-suburbs-that-look-very-similar-to-our-own-1950's-era-suburban-sprawl-but-denser.

But thank goodness they now have a subway line and a network of light rail and even two BRT lines, but those same freeways continue to still turn into parking lots plenty of times.

[schulzte]

In terms of market size and media rankings, if MLB gave expansion teams to San Antonio, Charlotte, Orlando, Portland, and Sacramento [[all 50% of metro Detroit or greater); then alternate league teams to Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington D.C., Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix [[all larger markets than Detroit); then third teams to New York and LA [[both triple the size of Detroit); then I think Detroit has a legitimate shot. Which one is the sarcasm font?

The attendance argument.......Ever visit Tiger Stadium in the mid-late 1990's? Detroit likes a winner. So do most other cities.

When the Red Wings were so hot in the late 90's and you could barely get a seat, there was some discussion about a second NHL team landing at the Palace. It sounds silly now, but it sounded half-viable then.

[emu steve]

In terms of market size and media rankings, if MLB gave expansion teams to San Antonio, Charlotte, Orlando, Portland, and Sacramento [[all 50% of metro Detroit or greater); then alternate league teams to Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington D.C., Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix [[all larger markets than Detroit); then third teams to New York and LA [[both triple the size of Detroit); then I think Detroit has a legitimate shot. Which one is the sarcasm font?

The attendance argument.......Ever visit Tiger Stadium in the mid-late 1990's? Detroit likes a winner. So do most other cities.

When the Red Wings were so hot in the late 90's and you could barely get a seat, there was some discussion about a second NHL team landing at the Palace. It sounds silly now, but it sounded half-viable then.

A 2nd team might be appropriate for huge metro areas like NYC, L.A., etc. OR cities which have growing extended metropolitan areas.

But, neither are Detroit. The population of the Detroit metro area has been stagnant for decades [[with population moving between Detroit and the 'burbs without any real growth).

Quite frankly, I don't see any more teams in NYC, etc. Neither the Yankees nor Mets are doing particularly well [[Mets are in a funk and Yanks have overpriced their tickets for a team which isn't a world beater any more).

[Hermod]

That's right, forgot about the Rams who started their franchise in LA. Good call.

Originally the Cleveland Rams who moved to LA then to St Louis.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

In terms of market size and media rankings, if MLB gave expansion teams to San Antonio, Charlotte, Orlando, Portland, and Sacramento [[all 50% of metro Detroit or greater); then alternate league teams to Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington D.C., Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix [[all larger markets than Detroit); then third teams to New York and LA [[both triple the size of Detroit); then I think Detroit has a legitimate shot. Which one is the sarcasm font?

The attendance argument.......Ever visit Tiger Stadium in the mid-late 1990's? Detroit likes a winner. So do most other cities.

When the Red Wings were so hot in the late 90's and you could barely get a seat, there was some discussion about a second NHL team landing at the Palace. It sounds silly now, but it sounded half-viable then.

And don't forget the Pistons led the NBA in consecutive sellouts at 259 and attendance in 5 out of 6 years in the mid 2000's when they went to 6 straight ECF.

[CLAUDE G]

First of all the Ticket prices at Comerica park are not selling high enough. You go to other cities your paying $300 per ticket for the good seats, yet in Detroit you can get a decent seat for less than $100 on most nights.

Second of all the only reason why attendance is up at Comerica park is because the Tigers are doing good. Before 2006, I believe they where struggling to get more than 20,000 people per game.

Third, Tiger Stadium would have been the perfect venue... Wait, some idiots had that demolished because we where not using it.