Wayne State Buys the Frank Hecker Mansion

[anonJD]

Attachment 24587

Tyree is the deadbeat that runs that eyesore neighborhood, yes? They display his "art" at WSU? You've got to be kidding me. Says everything about that university.

[Willi]

For those that held a job and attended Engineering or Med School in the past while living at home, there simply wasn't a lot of time to """hang around""" campus taking in the sights and doing walkabouts for the hell of it. You were on a schedule, walked from Point A to Point B so you're not late for class, especially if the traffic was a beast, and the parking lots were pretty full. If you got money for school off SAT scores, Pell Grant, etc, you studied hard not to jeopardize it. Honestly I never attended one football game or hung around much after classes ended at night. Most of the people I knew did the same and got Bachelor of Science degrees.

NOTICE how ART fits in the """other""" category and is not the MAIN focus of the University
http://policies.wayne.edu/10-11-wayn...collection.php
http://policies.wayne.edu/other.php

[DetroitPlanner]

Here's the ugly truth: if you simply SHOW UP to any 15 of these schools for 6 years, you'll get a degree. That's what makes these numbers even worse than they are. Even at UMaa, you can get a gen studies degree taking exclusively all of the campus "guts" sections. At MSU and the others, anyone can get a communications degree. If you spend 5-6 years on a campus and didn't leave with a degree, your work ethic is best defined as: helpless.

WSU is still very much a University for the working poor. When I attended, I had to schedule classes around my checkbook. If I had no money, then I could not afford to take classes. It is unfair to characterize hard working people based upon comparisons to those at places like U of M. Don't get me wrong, yes there are people at U of M who work their tails off, however, there are a lot of their enrollees who have rich daddies and those are the ones who skew the data in the opposite direction.

Universities have different goals and objectives on who they serve. That is okay. I felt lucky to have WSU, without it I would have probably ended up in jail or in some low-wage dead-end job.

[motz]

^^^^ Also yeah, read that. I know a fair amount of people who have taken 6-10 years to complete a degree due to very similar circumstances. They had to be very picky about what classes they signed up for because they also had a full time jobs, had to pay for their own living expenses, etc. Props to you DP!

For those that held a job and attended Engineering or Med School in the past while living at home, there simply wasn't a lot of time to """hang around""" campus taking in the sights and doing walkabouts for the hell of it. You were on a schedule, walked from Point A to Point B so you're not late for class, especially if the traffic was a beast, and the parking lots were pretty full. If you got money for school off SAT scores, Pell Grant, etc, you studied hard not to jeopardize it. Honestly I never attended one football game or hung around much after classes ended at night. Most of the people I knew did the same and got Bachelor of Science degrees.

NOTICE how ART fits in the """other""" category and is not the MAIN focus of the University
http://policies.wayne.edu/10-11-wayn...collection.php
http://policies.wayne.edu/other.php

A key component to continued success in higher education, as well as in the workplace, is something called "work life balance". This concept means taking time away from your work/studies to decompress and relax, to allow for your brain to unwind and function better in the high stress or fast paced environment you study/work in. Many people enjoy taking a walk on campus, taking in the art, possibly spending some time at the reflecting pools. Other people enjoy exercising, while some enjoy socializing. It is the University's job to make sure their students have a certain level of quality of life, and work life balance is an extremely huge part of that. Mind you, this point is probably totally lost over here, but I thought I might mention - all of this serves a purpose even though you think WSU's only purpose is failing poor kids, providing a terrible education and heiling Hitler or whatever.

[TheUsualSuspect]

For those that held a job and attended Engineering or Med School in the past while living at home, there simply wasn't a lot of time to """hang around""" campus taking in the sights and doing walkabouts for the hell of it. You were on a schedule, walked from Point A to Point B so you're not late for class, especially if the traffic was a beast, and the parking lots were pretty full. If you got money for school off SAT scores, Pell Grant, etc, you studied hard not to jeopardize it. Honestly I never attended one football game or hung around much after classes ended at night. Most of the people I knew did the same and got Bachelor of Science degrees.

I certain we won't change Willi's mind about art or WSU priorities in general. I was in the Engineering college, worked a part-time job and lived at home in the early 80's. My class schedule was never so organized that I didn't have an hour or two [[sometimes longer) that kept me on the campus. I don't remember specifically walking the campus admiring the artwork. I hung out at the houses directly adjacent to the engineering buildings [[on Putnam)...dorms are there now. I'd buy apples from the street vendors for snacks, occasionally stay later for a beer at Circa when I could, and sometime would find my way to the library to study a bit. If the appearance of the campus were purely industrial...no ponds, no art, no landscaping...I would have enjoyed the experience a little less.

The setting of the urban WSU campus was already at a bit of a disadvantage. A little decoration provided an accent to the walkways and paths between buildings. Whether it robbed precious resources or distracted the school from it's mission is , I suppose, the debate.

I tend to think it added something...at a modest cost.

[noise]

I know exactly what everyone else knows - WSU suffered from serious performance declines.

Shrinking State of Michigan financial support to WSU
under a performance-based funding model
favored by Gov. Rick Snyder and the Legislature.
The State support now makes up about a third of WSU's revenue.

Apparently things are so bad that for only the 2nd time in the history of the school;
it will launch a $750-million Capital Campaign this week,
hoping to raise money for student scholarships
and endowed faculty positions, among other items.

YEAH, they took their eye off the prize, EDUCATION.
Skip the crap in the campus, and focus on what is in the classroom, indoors.

Wow. There's a lot of false narrative added to that viewpoint.

[noise]

Tyree is the deadbeat that runs that eyesore neighborhood, yes? They display his "art" at WSU? You've got to be kidding me. Says everything about that university.

So does the DIA, a highly-regarded museum of art.

[Wesley Mouch]

Here's the ugly truth: if you simply SHOW UP to any 15 of these schools for 6 years, you'll get a degree. That's what makes these numbers even worse than they are. Even at UMaa, you can get a gen studies degree taking exclusively all of the campus "guts" sections. At MSU and the others, anyone can get a communications degree. If you spend 5-6 years on a campus and didn't leave with a degree, your work ethic is best defined as: helpless.

How many angels can dance on the head of pin, you ask? Or you can ask what percentage of black students at WSU graduate. Both are irrelevant.

There is a little value in that 1 in 13 stat on other thread -- but no relevance to any intelligent discussion of the value of WSU.

Me, I'm not in favor of racial preferences, nor really of measuring exactly how much of a student has to be black to count in this statistic. Are we using one drop of black blood as the standard?

But so what? We could raise admission standards? To satisfy a stat?

Do we think its so bad to admit a student that might not graduate from WSU to the school. Maybe they'll take a course and learn something -- even if they don't go on to graduate. Is the only purpose of a school to graduate students? I thought it was to provide education.

Geez.... graduate rates have little to do with whether the school is doing good. [[Not well, good -- like public 'good')

[Willi]

Wow. There's a lot of false narrative added to that viewpoint.

You're a hoot Noise - especially when you can't read a recent news article

I made ZERO of that up - absolutely ZERO --- in Post #56 - so yeah calling yourself Noise suits you

Reality brother , give it a try for a second, you might be surprised

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...aign/16859025/

What portion of the annual budget gets spent on the ""other"" - my guess is it gets slashed now.
Essentials only in hard times, core competencies.
NOTICE how ART fits in the """other""" category and is not the MAIN focus of the University
http://policies.wayne.edu/10-11-wayn...collection.php
http://policies.wayne.edu/other.php

[Gistok]

Willi,

I rarely agree much of the time with either Noise or Motz... but in this instance I have to agree with them... your entire complaint about WSU and art is beyond irrelevant. Like all Universities... they are institutions of learning... they have libraries... they have archives... and yes they even have art.

By their nature institutions of higher learning have alumni.... many who later become successful and become patrons and donors to their alma maters in many ways... even donating art.

By purchasing the Hecker House, they purchased a wonderful work of art in itself... a work that they are going likely fully utilize for schmoozing those big donors and for other fund raising activities. So maybe it's time for you to stop being so obsessive about art somehow being the problem... in this instance you're being "pennywise and pound foolish".

[Willi]

I have an opinion and I express it. Money is being used on items not pertaining to education.
Maintenance, installation, storage all have costs - perhaps some assets should be sold.
If times are that tough financially for the University, they need to look at past operational costs.
I see things out of balance for Wayne State University. Donations can become albatrosses.

[anonJD]

Do we think its so bad to admit a student that might not graduate from WSU to the school. Maybe they'll take a course and learn something -- even if they don't go on to graduate. Is the only purpose of a school to graduate students? I thought it was to provide education.

Geez.... graduate rates have little to do with whether the school is doing good. [[Not well, good -- like public 'good')

Yes, it is "so bad" to admit unmotivated flunkies who are lost and desperate for a financial aid refund. The colleges saddles them with thousands of dollars of debt, a few E's on their transcript and they learned nothing. It's a waste of their life, it ruins their credit score and it's a hole most of these people will never dig themselves out of. Who's the winner in all of this? The publics colleges, of course. They're all very eager to exploit simpletons. No secret all of those 100-level course taught by adjunct faculty have the highest margin. Helpless people are goldmines.

[Willi]

No one twisted their arm to sign up for classes or coerced them at gunpoint to get a loan, etc.
No way in hell is it the fault of the Wayne State University administration.
There are free tutoring programs of every kind imaginable around campus.
The fault for DE-fault lies at the feet of the student , not the university.
A University should never feel pressured to lower its standards because punks apply.
As a taxpayer, that punk should re-pay every cent towards the federal student loan program.
A lot of WSU graduates actually worked very very hard to "earn" money for classes.
No pity, none, not one damn second, for a punk who wouldn't try.

[Gistok]

Willi, you say donations can be an albatross.... that may be, but just look at all the good it did for the College for Creative Studies [[CCS)... they got over $60 million from the Ford family [[Walter & Josephine Ford), and I don't know how much exactly they got from Al Taubman... but the remodeling of the Argonaut Building in New Center [[as a 2nd campus) cost $146 million. Generally big donors get buildings named after them... with few strings attached.

[Willi]

Newer buildings are generally easier to maintain than the really old ones.
That mansion was listed for $2,790,000 in 2013
Just two years ago, the Hecker-Smiley Mansion was asking $3.5M.

I think it could not be sold for a profit - so it was donated - as a last resort

Hey guess what, IT NEEDED MONEY.............can you say desperate ?
https://www.tilt.com/campaigns/conve...en/description

Re-read the original Post # 1
""""It's a neat office space but the upkeep, if they are maintain its historicity,
doesn't seem cost effective on the surface."""""

Go jump the original poster, he said what I said, right from the start

[anonJD]

No one twisted their arm to sign up for classes or coerced them at gunpoint to get a loan, etc.
No way in hell is it the fault of the Wayne State University administration.
There are free tutoring programs of every kind imaginable around campus.
The fault for DE-fault lies at the feet of the student , not the university.
A University should never feel pressured to lower its standards because punks apply.
As a taxpayer, that punk should re-pay every cent towards the federal student loan program.
A lot of WSU graduates actually worked very very hard to "earn" money for classes.
No pity, none, not one damn second, for a punk who wouldn't try.

And no one puts a gun to the head of simpletons who use cash advance joints, or sign up for 30% APR credit cards, or 30% APR car loans, or signing an interest only mortgage with phony documents. But it's all exploitative.

Define "a lot" of WSU graduates. Last I checked, 90% of African Americans that go there leave with nothing but suffocating debt.

[Willi]

Exploitation is a two way street - people can and do better themselves every single day.

Definition for enrollment this year at Wayne State University is :

1. Enrollment: 26,211 [[2014)
   
   Other sources :
2. https://www.cappex.com/colleges/Wayne-State-University
3. http://www.forbes.com/colleges/wayne-state-university/

Black or African American = 23.0%

[ALPOE]

Starting in 1978 I work as a Piano mover and the moved in the quarters above the carriage house as both a caretaker n mover until 1983. The place is loaded with history as I gave tours also. One unique painting was gifted from the next door neighbor who was friends with the painter Whistler, as a gift he painted the ceiling on the first floor turret SE corner which is still there. I know many super things about the place like hidden spaces and animals in the grains of the doors. Once Wayne State gets it open to there liking I'll stop by to see what they done.