GM to move Cadillac brand to New York City

[313WX]

313WX: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...york/16113465/ .


"Lincoln has a marketing firm with about 50 people in New York working for it, along with a separate social-media team at contractor Hudson-Rouge, but no Lincoln employees are based in New York.

"New York's just an epicenter for advertising and creativity," [Lincoln marketing chief] Van Dyke said.

Hudson-Rouge is yet another subsidiary of Ford created specifically for Ford. It is a joint venture with WPP, which BTW is Team Detroit's parent company...

[MSUguy]

I do know the Big 3 have moved their R&D to California in recent years.

But the Lincoln division HQ is still in Dearborn...

They are in Dearborn after five years they figured out that beach access didn't make their products any better and moved back.

[nain rouge]

When I look at what Tesla, VW, Google, and others are doing with cars in California, one gets the sense that California is leading in innovation. That's not, I'd say, a good sign for Detroit.

[aoife]

They were talking about this on WDET yesterday. To sum up the discussion: Cadillac is moving creative to New York because that is where the other luxury brands are based. They are working on rebranding themselves. They also want to be where all of the deals are being made and where the creative heavies live. New York has the biggest luxury market in the country and they want the chance for exposure [[sponsoring big events like fashion week or whatever). The auto reporter was arguing that Cadillac is on par or ahead of the other brands [[Audi, BMW, MB) in technology, design and engineering, but they have a reputation to overcome. By distancing themselves from GM and saddling up next to the Europeans they might have a chance.

Not my opinion, btw, just what I heard on the radio.

[Gpwrangler]

That's what I think too, pardon the irony. In fact, a great car can be designed in Detroit if it is not muddled by lame decision makers claiming to know what the public wants. If you look back at the mid seventies and eighties and the boxy plastichrome trimmed shit they put out, its no wonder the big four lost out for awhile. The Japanese in spite of a great history of design are fairly timid and bland. The US brands are still too much into bigness and cheeky bulky trim. I would parachute a ton of Italian designers on US facilities myself. Fiat Chrysler is a good start.

yikes. How many on here actually work in the industry?

[313WX]

They are in Dearborn after five years they figured out that beach access didn't make their products any better and moved back.

Yep.

For the record, I think what GM is doing with Cadillac is stupid. But it just goes to show how out-of-touch at best, or incompetent at worst, the management at the Big 3 automakers really is...

[poobert]

When I look at what Tesla, VW, Google, and others are doing with cars in California, one gets the sense that California is leading in innovation. That's not, I'd say, a good sign for Detroit.

You know, it is nice to have some perspective. The same provincial fanatics around here I'm sure were the same people in the 1980's who had bumper stickers that said "Assholes Drive Imports" while their GM vehicle had beer bottles and dead fish in the door panels. You go out around here and feel like you're seconds away from someone screaming "BURN THE WITCH!"

I drive a Cadillac myself and am certainly proud of local and American products, but they need to be innovative and stand on their own right.

NYC is an astounding place and I think they'll find some special talent.

I'd expect a bit more support at least since back in the good old days the GP blue bloods used to faithfully ape the east coast aristocracy. It seems perhaps over the years they've married their cousins a few too many times and become a bit...frumpy.

[Cliffy]

When I look at what Tesla, VW, Google, and others are doing with cars in California, one gets the sense that California is leading in innovation. That's not, I'd say, a good sign for Detroit.

Can you give examples.

For as much as people bitch about Michigan, the best engineers in the world are in this area.

[ABetterDetroit]

I see it as we lost some marketing guys that paid income tax in Detroit, that sucks we need the money. But if they make it work and caddys market share grows it will be well worth it based on that caddys main plant is in the D and everyother engineer, accountant, and programmers are still here. Let them bones roll....

[ABetterDetroit]

Can you give examples

Fisker is gone. Tesla is constantly on the hunt for more private placements. Very tough gig, need shitloads of capital and if and when you get there the margins suck.

[iheartthed]

Can you give examples.

For as much as people bitch about Michigan, the best engineers in the world are in this area.

Honda is in Torrance, California.

BMW has a technology centre in Mountain View, California.

Mercedes Benz research and development is in neighboring Sunnyvale, California.

Need more?

[ndavies]

Sorry these are all just places. Just because a company is somewhere doesn't mean they are creating products there. The real question to ask is what products have those facilities created.

Most of Hondas US engineering is done in Marysville Ohio. 99 percent of BMW, VW and Mercedes engineering is done in Germany. Mercedes US engineering is done in Alabama. VW's US engineering is done in Nashville. The Mercedes and BMW offices out west are mostly sales and marketing.

Toyota does it's north American development in York Township near Ann Arbor. They are dumping huge amounts of Money to grow it's engineering center there.

Most of the really cutting edge apps are being done by the automotive suppliers. Continental, Bosch, TRW, ZF, Visteon, Magna, Johnson controls ..... All the large suppliers have Huge engineering facilities here. A majority of the overseas suppliers have engineering offices here.

[stasu1213]

G.M. Headquarters will follow. So glad that Downtown Detroit has other businesses t o support it.

[canuck]

yikes. How many on here actually work in the industry?

As a consumer, I don't need to work in the industry to have an opinion about it. You can disagree with whatever points I made, but working in the industry hardly matters.

[Gistok]

Sorry these are all just places. Just because a company is somewhere doesn't mean they are creating products there. The real question to ask is what products have those facilities created.

Most of Hondas US engineering is done in Marysville Ohio. 99 percent of BMW, VW and Mercedes engineering is done in Germany. Mercedes US engineering is done in Alabama. VW's US engineering is done in Nashville. The Mercedes and BMW offices out west are mostly sales and marketing.

Toyota does it's north American development in York Township near Ann Arbor. They are dumping huge amounts of Money to grow it's engineering center there.

Most of the really cutting edge apps are being done by the automotive suppliers. Continental, Bosch, TRW, ZF, Visteon, Magna, Johnson controls ..... All the large suppliers have Huge engineering facilities here. A majority of the overseas suppliers have engineering offices here.

Hi Ndavies... over the years I've always liked your posts... they're to the point, not lacking in details.... and never shrill or emotional....

Thanks!

[Gpwrangler]

As a consumer, I don't need to work in the industry to have an opinion about it. You can disagree with whatever points I made, but working in the industry hardly matters.

I didn't think so. Opinion weighted accordingly...

[Jason]

I don't think it's a very good idea.

If it's about the brand, I think the brand's strength is its heritage, and symbolically moving the brand undermines that heritage.

If it's about recruitment, it makes more sense, but still, if people so openly disdain your company then I don't think you'd want them in important positions anyway.

[anonJD]

The New York Times reports the new foreign guy running Cadillac only accepted the job with GM with the agreement he could set up shop in NYC.

As for worrying about parking in SoHo: do you guys realize how a company as fat as GM works? They'll all get $20k for moving expenses, spend millions on office space, another million on parking spaces, get driven around in chauffeured Escalades, lunch at the best restaurants and fill their social calendar with elite events all on the company's dime. This foreign guy and the lucky few dozen he brings along will be living the dream.

GM is a joke. Anybody foolish enough to own shares in that dull crony-run company needs to sell while they're worth a nickel.

[nain rouge]

You go out around here and feel like you're seconds away from someone screaming "BURN THE WITCH!"

Amen. Look, I'm loyal to the Big 3. Those companies have done a lot for my family over the decades. No matter what, I'll drive an American car.

That said, that doesn't mean we should live with blinders on. They can say whatever they want on here, but look at what has happened to the Big 3 market share since the '80s. The numbers tell the whole story. We are screwing up and have never stopped screwing up. Detroit was EXTREMELY LUCKY that the government was in the position and mood to bail out GM and Chrysler. People in Metro Detroit may refuse to accept the truth, but to the rest of the country, you're emperors with no clothes on.

I only say anything about this because I care about Detroit and the Big 3. It's painful to watch the slow, protracted decline.

[TTime]

I came across this interesting thought the other day while reading Malcolm Gladwell's What The Dog Saw, "They believed it was a mistake to separate product development from marketing, as most of their contemporaries did, because to them the two were indistinguishable: the object that sold best was the one that sold itself."[[page 4 bottom) I realize this over simplifies the situation but it's relevant in some way nonetheless.

[Bham1982]

Does either Mercedes or BMW have an address in a global mega-city?

Well yeah, they do. Both Mercedes and BMW have their North American HQ in the NY metro area. Audi has its HQ in the DC metro area.

Considering that Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are all HQ in the Northeast corridor, and all seem to be killing Cadillac in that part of the world, probably there's some belief within GM that they need to be "closer to the ground" in what is probably the most lucrative market for luxury vehicles.

Now whether this actually works, I have no idea. But it is true that the fancy Euro brands are HQ in the Northeast, and they have market share dominance over domestic brands [[and Japanese brands, for that matter- the Northeast is the global profit center for Audi, Mercedes, and BMW, and an underperformer for Cadillac, Lincoln and Lexus).

[maverick1]

Honda is in Torrance, California.

BMW has a technology centre in Mountain View, California.

Mercedes Benz research and development is in neighboring Sunnyvale, California.

Need more?

This is half correct, Mercedes Benz R&D is in California and Detroit/Redford.

[maverick1]

When conversations like this come up there is a tendency beat up on the Big 3 or Detroit and manufacturing. As someone who works in the industry it's amusing to me. All the companies the media or public praises come to Detroit for the expertise in various areas. Companies in Silicon Valley try to and have poached quite a few engineers from the auto industry. Let the public and media tell it anybody can replicate 100+ years of knowledge making cars.

[thoro]

Do purchasers really care where a company's headquarters are?

[Kevgoblue]

Do purchasers really care where a company's headquarters are?

Great question. And, do the majority of them know where a company's headquarters are?