GM to move Cadillac brand to New York City

**Hermod** · September-25-14, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Audi is HQ in "cosmopolitan" Ingolstadt, yet you will probably see 20 Audis on the streets of Manhattan or London before you see a Cadillac.

But, who knows, it could work. Infiniti is based in Hong Kong, specifically to separate themselves from the parent company in Japan.

Daimler Benz is actually in Sindelfingen, a suburb of Stuttgart

**nain rouge** · September-23-14, 03:17 PM

Funny that Chrysler has had all these European associations, and yet that's the one company that clings to the traditional American concept of the car the most.

**canuck** · September-23-14, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Funny that Chrysler has had all these European associations, and yet that's the one company that clings to the traditional American concept of the car the most.

Yes, Ford is the most international in terms of integrated design and unification of platforms. If Chrysler has that niche of American muscle to propel its sales, it should use it and not waste it on past k-car ideals of design. They do a good job with their minivans also, less boring and good value.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · September-25-14, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Funny that Chrysler has had all these European associations, and yet that's the one company that clings to the traditional American concept of the car the most.

Not sure how long this will last since Fiat bought them out. They will slowly be europeanized. As long as they leave Dodge alone, I'll be happy.

**scottn55** · September-23-14, 04:12 PM

I seriously doubt that this move will help put butts in the seats for Cadillac but I hope that it does. The current crop of Cadillac products is simply outstanding. The cars are "there" in that they're competitive with, and by many measures, superior to the German offerings. Brand management has been a real problem over the years and has hampered recent marketing efforts which is ultimately what I think this move is supposed to address.

Since somebody asked I'll list the production sites for all current/upcoming Cadillac models:

ATS & CTS- Lansing Grand River Assembly
XTS- Oshawa, ON
ELR- Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant
SRX- Ramos Arizpe Assembly- being moved to Spring Hill, TN next year
Escalade- Arlington, TX
Unnamed Flagship Sedan- Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly

**Steve203** · September-23-14, 04:57 PM

This has to be the dumbest thing GM has done since Roger Smith split the company into CPC [[Chevrolet-Pontiac-Canada) and BOC [[Buick-Olds-Cadillac) divisions in the mid 80s. Move the "decison makers" away from the testing and production facilities so they have a more fashionable address, but no idea what is going on in the real world?

Here's what Wiki says about Smith's reorganization

The reorganization added costs and created more layers of bureaucracy when the new groups added management, marketing and engineering staff, duplicating existing staff at both the corporate and division levels. Almost ten years elapsed before the 1984 reorganization was unwound and all car groups were combined into one division

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_S...reorganization

**bailey** · September-24-14, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Steve203

This has to be the dumbest thing GM has done since Roger Smith split the company into CPC [[Chevrolet-Pontiac-Canada) and BOC [[Buick-Olds-Cadillac) divisions in the mid 80s. Move the "decison makers" away from the testing and production facilities so they have a more fashionable address, but no idea what is going on in the real world?

Here's what Wiki says about Smith's reorganization

The reorganization added costs and created more layers of bureaucracy when the new groups added management, marketing and engineering staff, duplicating existing staff at both the corporate and division levels. Almost ten years elapsed before the 1984 reorganization was unwound and all car groups were combined into one division

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_S...reorganization

Speaking of stupid... now the new flagship sedan is going to be called the CT6.... of course not to be confused with the CTS.

Apparently the new chief wants to overhaul the naming conventions too. Hey fella, maybe start with not having your flagship have a name that sounds virtually indistinguishable from the entry level car during the overlap?

**Steve203** · September-24-14, 11:13 PM

now the new flagship sedan is going to be called the CT6....of course not to be confused with the CTS.

Or maybe they're trying to get it confused with the Jag XJ6. Given that Jag's horrible reliability record, that something I would not want to identify with, but since Caddie is indicating it's all about image, rather than substance, maybe they figure it fits.

**Hermod** · September-24-14, 07:11 PM

Maybe GM thinks that the Cadillac offices are entrenched with embedded incompetents. Move to New York and a whole bunch of them will bail out. After a few years, move back from New York and quite a few won't make the move. Then you can start fresh.

**Steve203** · September-24-14, 11:16 PM

Move to New York and a whole bunch of them will bail out.

The late news the evening of the announcement said only 30 people will be working in NYC. This is entirely for apperances. The Channel 4 news people were openly laughing about it on the air.

**Bham1982** · September-25-14, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Steve203

The late news the evening of the announcement said only 30 people will be working in NYC. This is entirely for apperances. The Channel 4 news people were openly laughing about it on the air.

Well then the Channel 4 people are wrong, and the joke's on them.

They're hiring 200 for the NYC office, and plan on 400 within a year. Our esteemed local "news" probably mixed up the fact that they're only moving 30-40 current Detroit-area employees to NYC with the overall office staffing needs, which are 10x greater.

**Gannon** · September-25-14, 09:01 AM

Isn't this the third leader Caddy has had in the past five years?!

This guy sounds like a one-trick pony, and is SO anti-Detroit that he doesn't want any of it to follow him to NYC. Fuck him.

First I saw that CT6 designation, I wondered how they'd developed 6-wheel drive. They use the CT4 on the all-wheel-drive CTS sportwagon. I know this because my neighbor took one home from the GM pool last night...that is one sharp-looking car.

There is considerable confusion about the employment stats...first it was 'only' 50, then Barra herself said One Hundred...and now this 200-400 one?! The new bozo insists that all his employees live the Luxury Lifestyle...they have to be totally bought into whatever all that entails.

I give it three years before absolute implosion. This will end up one of the most expensive of GM's blunders throughout its history.

Rumor has it this idiot is aiming to eliminate any price points below $75k...and wants to separate from the urban aesthetic common with used Caddys. He is a damn fool, a classist, AND a racist...IMHO.

Why are GM's worst mistakes SO easy to spot in advance?! Everyone I know is in a slow-motion flinch over this insanity...

Cheers,
John
son of a Fisher Body lifer

**nain rouge** · September-25-14, 09:11 AM

Everyone here cheered when Campbell Ewald made the jump from Warren to Detroit. Now Cadillac does the national equivalent of that jump and everyone is up in arms and predicting doom for Cadillac.

I think, rather than adopting the attitude of "they'll come crawling back eventually", Metro Detroit should view this as a challenge, a sign that we need to step taking half-measures and really fix the mess that region has made of itself. Not that I'm holding my breath....

**DetroitPlanner** · September-24-14, 10:35 PM

This sort of reminds me when Lincoln and Chrysler opened up in LA to help court those crowds.

Chrysler's office was called Pacifica. This was 20 years before the SUV of the same name came to be.

**Scottathew** · September-25-14, 09:10 AM

**nain rouge** · September-25-14, 10:01 AM

OK, if you want to be that specific. But now Cadillac is a "separate business unit" [[according to USA Today) and it chose to move to a superior urban environment. Your comparison would only work if Chrysler had spun off something like Dodge into a new business unit, and then Dodge moved to Detroit. Which, of course, would've been a much bigger deal, and you all would've cheered.

**bailey** · September-25-14, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

OK, if you want to be that specific. But now Cadillac is a "separate business unit" [[according to USA Today) and it chose to move to a superior urban environment. Your comparison would only work if Chrysler had spun off something like Dodge into a new business unit, and then Dodge moved to Detroit. Which, of course, would've been a much bigger deal, and you all would've cheered.

The point being, nothing about the "urban location" has dick all to do with design or manufacture of the product. Lincoln tried this and was roundly mocked.... cadillac doing the exact same thing... except on the opposite coast is just dumb.

But, ok... you're clearly in support of it. Tell me what about having some office space in NYC is going to translate to a better premium luxury car?

**nain rouge** · September-25-14, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

But, ok... you're clearly in support of it. Tell me what about having some office space in NYC is going to translate to a better premium luxury car?

They believe they can attract a better workforce in an elite urban environment. Sure, theoretically, aesthetics and the outside environment mean jack squat. All things being equal, GM's Tech Center employees could work as well in giant concrete box as they do in the buildings they currently inhabit. But the truth is, people aren't robots and require quality of life. Cadillac believes the sorts of people that value the lifestyle in NYC are the sorts of people it needs to push the image of its brand forward. We don't need people giving the green-light to ads that mock bicycles, as we saw in Detroit.

When Campbell Ewald moved to Warren, everyone on here was bleating about how it now could show its clients a better time [[because Warren is ugly and boring) and attract the creative types that value urban environments. But now Cadillac moves a step up from Detroit and it's the dumbest thing ever.

**bailey** · September-25-14, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

They believe they can attract a better workforce in an elite urban environment. Sure, theoretically, aesthetics and the outside environment mean jack squat. All things being equal, GM's Tech Center employees could work as well in giant concrete box as they do in the buildings they currently inhabit. But the truth is, people aren't robots and require quality of life. Cadillac believes the sorts of people that value the lifestyle in NYC are the sorts of people it needs to push the image of its brand forward. We don't need people giving the green-light to ads that mock bicycles, as we saw in Detroit.

When Campbell Ewald moved to Warren, everyone on here was bleating about how it now could show its clients a better time [[because Warren is ugly and boring) and attract the creative types that value urban environments. But now Cadillac moves a step up from Detroit and it's the dumbest thing ever.

but the point you seem to be willfully ignoring is that none of the design or manufacturing is moving.

CE didn't just move the flag and some management, they moved EVERYTHING.

Caddy is setting up entirely redundant space in the most expensive city on the planet to do what exactly? Not design cars...apparently. your argument would have at least a semblance of a point if Caddy was totally decamping from Michigan. I still think that wouldn't get them anything in terms of consumer by in...because it's too ingrained and entwined with Detroit.

**iheartthed** · September-25-14, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

They believe they can attract a better workforce in an elite urban environment. Sure, theoretically, aesthetics and the outside environment mean jack squat. All things being equal, GM's Tech Center employees could work as well in giant concrete box as they do in the buildings they currently inhabit. But the truth is, people aren't robots and require quality of life. Cadillac believes the sorts of people that value the lifestyle in NYC are the sorts of people it needs to push the image of its brand forward. We don't need people giving the green-light to ads that mock bicycles, as we saw in Detroit.

When Campbell Ewald moved to Warren, everyone on here was bleating about how it now could show its clients a better time [[because Warren is ugly and boring) and attract the creative types that value urban environments. But now Cadillac moves a step up from Detroit and it's the dumbest thing ever.

I think both. I think urban environments do spin off creativity [[economic or otherwise) that you wouldn't get in a place like Warren. But that's relevant for aspirations beyond just building cars.

That said, I think there are plenty of people in Detroit who want to work for a car company. What Cadillac is saying is that people who want to work for a car company are out of touch with the people it wants to buy its cars. I think that's a flawed thought process on Cadillac's part. I also think Cadillac might have more trouble than they think finding people in NYC who want to work for a car company. But I could be wrong. I'm not wishing them ill will.

**MotorCityTrikes** · September-25-14, 10:40 AM

I understand New York has a ridiculous tax structure. Except for the ads saying new business gets a break. I'm a Ford guy anyway adios Caddy.

**nain rouge** · September-25-14, 10:51 AM

You could make the best Cadillacs in Detroit, but if your Detroit staff is clueless on how to sell the car to the wealthy in the nation's premier markets, what good is that? I bring up the anti-bicycle ad campaign GM disastrously tried because it shows how out of touch the Detroit staff is/was. Go to DC or Boston on the weekend and seemingly every rich old guy is dressed in spandex and riding a bike. And guess what? Those people also own cars - typically very expensive cars, in fact. When they see an ad mocking them, they aren't impressed.

GM is defending the move for the same reasons I am. But, of course, GM would be better off if you were CEO, right? You know what's up in this country.

**bailey** · September-25-14, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

You could make the best Cadillacs in Detroit, but if your Detroit staff is clueless on how to sell the car to the wealthy in the nation's premier markets, what good is that? I bring up the anti-bicycle ad campaign GM disastrously tried because it shows how out of touch the Detroit staff is/was. Go to DC or Boston on the weekend and seemingly every rich old guy is dressed in spandex and riding a bike. And guess what? Those people also own cars - typically very expensive cars, in fact. When they see an ad mocking them, they aren't impressed.

GM is defending the move for the same reasons I am. But, of course, GM would be better off if you were CEO, right? You know what's up in this country.

How'd the Poolside ad campaign go? you know the one directly aimed at those rich fat guys in spandex? Universally mocked and derided and quickly pulled. Brought to us by a Boston ad firm..

I know why I drive a Cadillac competitor and it has zero to do with the ads and nothing about a new mailing address in NYC is going to get me into a dealership.

**nain rouge** · September-25-14, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

How'd the Poolside ad campaign go? you know the one directly aimed at those rich fat guys in spandex? Universally mocked and derided and quickly pulled. Brought to us by a Boston ad firm..

I still think it was on the right track. But again, it was infected with that insular tendency to mock others that GM's Detroit brass is so fond of. It was very 20th century. If anything, I'd say that ad might've been a motivating factor for the move.

**Steve203** · September-25-14, 11:56 AM

it was infected with that insular tendency to mock others that GM's Detroit brass is so fond of.

Try watching CNBC and listen to the NYC financial community's insular tendency to mock others. Bringing that attitude to Cadilllac by moving the honchos there is going to help them sell cars in the rest of the country?