Gilbert to widen 375 off-ramp

[Gpwrangler]

Actually, most studies show that adding lanes rarely decreases traffic. If they add 50% more road space to the exit, 50% more people will use that exit. Obviously, it is somewhat situational, but there is no conclusive evidence that adding lanes reduces traffic

Adding lanes increases capacity. Of course it doesn't decrease traffic volume. It's not intended to.

Freeways slow low down when people merge. Being able to pass slow traffic is key, especially when merging traffic is not attempting to get up to speed with the freeway.
As long as we have enough lanes to allow express traffic and proficient drivers to bypass the circus in the right two lanes we will be good.

[iheartthed]

Adding lanes increases capacity. Of course it doesn't decrease traffic volume. It's not intended to.

Freeways slow low down when people merge. Being able to pass slow traffic is key, especially when merging traffic is not attempting to get up to speed with the freeway.
As long as we have enough lanes to allow express traffic and proficient drivers to bypass the circus in the right two lanes we will be good.

The point is that if people weren't using the freeway before, because it took longer to use the freeway than it did another route, would now start to use the freeway.

This was an argument against the need to widen I-94. Surface streets parallel to I-94 are hardly ever prohibitively congested. Making I-94 wider will just suck more motorists off of Warren since the cost of waiting at traffic lights on Warren will be less than going over to I-94, speeding down the freeway for a couple of miles and the going back up to Warren.. So you have more people using it which will just recreate the problem that MDOT is spending millions to fix.

MDOT could make traffic flow more efficiently for a lot less money if they block some of the on and off ramps on I-94....

[DetroitPlanner]

MDOT could make traffic flow more efficiently for a lot less money if they block some of the on and off ramps on I-94....

Sure then folks needing it to travel to school, the emergency room, to work, or out for a day at the museums won't be able to get there. Accessibility is important to help keep all of these institutions going.

[iheartthed]

Sure then folks needing it to travel to school, the emergency room, to work, or out for a day at the museums won't be able to get there. Accessibility is important to help keep all of these institutions going.

They would just use the streets that have existed for over a century.

[DetroitPlanner]

They would just use the streets that have existed for over a century.

Well if age is your cop-out then we should include I-94. It is nearly 70 years old! It was built as part of the War effort and is a 1940 vintage road.

The point I was trying to make is that accessibility is important to businesses. If a business like Gilbert's sees an issue, and they have the funding to fix it, and the City/State agrees to the solution why not use their dollars?

[iheartthed]

The point I was trying to make is that accessibility is important to businesses. If a business like Gilbert's sees an issue, and they have the funding to fix it, and the City/State agrees to the solution why not use their dollars?

I understand why Gilbert wants to do that. I don't fault him at all for going to the state with the proposal. Looking at it from his perspective, I probably would have tried the same thing. But I'm not Gilbert. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a private citizen. From that perspective I don't think think this is a good precedent to set.

[ghettopalmetto]

Sure then folks needing it to travel to school, the emergency room, to work, or out for a day at the museums won't be able to get there. Accessibility is important to help keep all of these institutions going.

This is why every business in the city needs its own on-and-off ramps, which connect directly to their attached parking garage. We can't have cars going all over the place willy-nilly causing all this congestion. People won't know where they're going if they have to travel at less than 70 mph.

And if you're walking, biking, or taking transit, eff you.

[Detroitnerd]

Well if age is your cop-out then we should include I-94. It is nearly 70 years old! It was built as part of the War effort and is a 1940 vintage road.

You should check your facts. The stretch MDOT wants to widen was built 1954-1958, not 1940.

[Scottathew]

I understand why Gilbert wants to do that. I don't fault him at all for going to the state with the proposal. Looking at it from his perspective, I probably would have tried the same thing. But I'm not Gilbert. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a private citizen. From that perspective I don't think think this is a good precedent to set.

What precedent is being set?

For me, the big thing is asking, "Is resolving this traffic backup on I-375 a good thing?". To me, the answer is yes. So privately funding the solution to a public problem is great.

I understand and respect those that don't think widening the ramp is good. If I disagreed with the project, I would be frustrated too. Kind of like having curb-side M-1 rail instead of center-run, I find it frustrating. But I don't fault Gilbert and company for funding M-1 rail, because otherwise we wouldn't get it at all.

It's a myth that this project would have any significant effect on an I-375 replacement.

[Gpwrangler]

And if you're walking, biking, or taking transit, eff you.

I see one, maybe two bicycles during my commute. No lights, in the dark, rolling through red lights. And thousands of cars. I guess I get the sensitivity but geez...

[ghettopalmetto]

What precedent is being set?

For me, the big thing is asking, "Is resolving this traffic backup on I-375 a good thing?". To me, the answer is yes. So privately funding the solution to a public problem is great.

I understand and respect those that don't think widening the ramp is good. If I disagreed with the project, I would be frustrated too. Kind of like having curb-side M-1 rail instead of center-run, I find it frustrating. But I don't fault Gilbert and company for funding M-1 rail, because otherwise we wouldn't get it at all.

It's a myth that this project would have any significant effect on an I-375 replacement.

Obviously, some people still think you can build your way out of roadway congestion. I think it's adorable that those people still exist in this day and age. It's not unlike encountering a 1930s radio at a garage sale.

For our next trick, let's have Dan Gilbert buy us new pants to cure overeating.

[Scottathew]

This is why every business in the city needs its own on-and-off ramps, which connect directly to their attached parking garage. We can't have cars going all over the place willy-nilly causing all this congestion. People won't know where they're going if they have to travel at less than 70 mph.

I know modifying the truth makes your case seem stronger...

The ramp will not go "directly" into one of Gilbert's properties. The ramp will go directly to the I-375 service drive and Monroe Street, not to one of Gilbert's business. Some of Gilbert's businesses happen to be located very close to the ramp, but the ramp wouldn't be exclusively for his own businesses.

Bottom line is that he's got a desirable destination and people want to get to it, whether it be for work or gambling. Existing infrastructure is causing unsafe backups onto a freeway. Widening an exit ramp will make things safer.

I don't foresee any major impacts to pedestrian traffic. The nearest pedestrian crossing on the service drive is at Monroe Street and is ALREADY three lanes wide, and will not be modified by the project.

[ghettopalmetto]

I see one, maybe two bicycles during my commute.

Maybe because the main roads in Detroit are all 8 lane highways with a 45 mph speed limit? Just a thought.

[Scottathew]

Obviously, some people still think you can build your way out of roadway congestion. I think it's adorable that those people still exist in this day and age. It's not unlike encountering a 1930s radio at a garage sale.

For our next trick, let's have Dan Gilbert buy us new pants to cure overeating.

I do acknowledge your point that if we keep building roads that we'll keep using them. However, the answer can't be to neglect road infrastructure, instead we need to invest in mass transit.

It would be like me telling my kid that I'm taking away the junk food, but not providing an approved alternative to eat.

[Honky Tonk]

This is why every business in the city needs its own on-and-off ramps, which connect directly to their attached parking garage. We can't have cars going all over the place willy-nilly causing all this congestion. People won't know where they're going if they have to travel at less than 70 mph.

And if you're walking, biking, or taking transit, eff you.

If Willy and Nilly can't make it to the casino to blow their money, then Unca Dan has no tax revenue to give Tricky Dick. Then Tricky Dick has to cut irrelevant programs like Rails to Trails, or State Parks or some other such nonsense. See how that works? So waddya say? Let Unca Dan build a better off ramp, so Willy and Nilly can enjoy what they like more frequently, and Honky Tonk can get home in reasonable time without going horse, screaming obscenities out the hooptie plastic window.

[DetroitPlanner]

You should check your facts. The stretch MDOT wants to widen was built 1954-1958, not 1940.

So its 60 years old, started building it in the 40's. Chill out bro. What does this have to do with I-375 ramp to Greektown anyways?

[Detroitnerd]

So its 60 years old, started building it in the 40's. Chill out bro. What does this have to do with I-375 ramp to Greektown anyways?

Just goes to show that you really don't know much about freeways to begin with, I guess ...

… bro …

[ghettopalmetto]

I do acknowledge your point that if we keep building roads that we'll keep using them. However, the answer can't be to neglect road infrastructure, instead we need to invest in mass transit.

It would be like me telling my kid that I'm taking away the junk food, but not providing an approved alternative to eat.

It would be like dining out every night, then saying you don't have enough money for groceries.

Michigan's road infrastructure is already neglected. Adding capacity doesn't fix potholes or resurface existing roads. In fact, it makes those things less likely by contributing to the ever-growing maintenance backlog. The State of Michigan has built itself to a state where it can't afford to conduct proper maintenance of what it has. It'd be like a squatter taking over an abandoned century mansion and "fixing it up" by putting on an addition.

[Gpwrangler]

Maybe because the main roads in Detroit are all 8 lane highways with a 45 mph speed limit? Just a thought.

No. It's because a bicycle was designed for a time when things were a lot closer together. With average commutes of 20 miles plus it just doesn't fit most people's needs anymore. But the only time you're likely to get "eff you" is if you try to drive it in traffic.

[Detroitnerd]

No. It's because a bicycle was designed for a time when things were a lot closer together. With average commutes of 20 miles plus it just doesn't fit most people's needs anymore. But the only time you're likely to get "eff you" is if you try to drive it in traffic.

Ha. That's a funny way of looking at it. Most people in the world, especially those who live in traditionally designed places where many of them can walk to work, would say that bicycles were ideal before the United States went on a binge of designing and building experimental communities where people were supposed to live 40 miles away from where they worked and spend hours driving every day for every reason.

[canuck]

Ha. That's a funny way of looking at it. Most people in the world, especially those who live in traditionally designed places where many of them can walk to work, would say that bicycles were ideal before the United States went on a binge of designing and building experimental communities where people were supposed to live 40 miles away from where they worked and spend hours driving every day for every reason.

Yes but Detroitnerd, don't forget; cavemen also looked on bicycles as pesky obstacles when they first hit city streets much like GPwrangler does today. Of course traffic wasn't as bad then, and city streets were called something else.

[Gpwrangler]

Yes but Detroitnerd, don't forget; cavemen also looked on bicycles as pesky obstacles when they first hit city streets much like GPwrangler does today. Of course traffic wasn't as bad then, and city streets were called something else.

Don't misquote me; that's a tired tactic of the left. I'm simply stating fact. If it makes you feel better, any vehicle doing 10 mph in a traffic lane will probably get the same response, especially if it holds up traffic then slides through every red light. It's a different world than it was in the 20s.

Build the ramp. Then reconstruct I-94 so it looks like the new section of I-96 so those who drive this economy can get to it.

[Huggybear]

Very, very rarely. I live off of Lafayette, and I have pretty much never sat in traffic getting home.

I live in the Lafayette corridor too, but I don't think you're really seeing the same problem I do. I drive I-375 up to 4 times a day, at various times. I can also see into it most of the time. It's slightly inconvenient to go down to Larned, slightly. But the bigger safety issue is the 81 Tigers home games and scattered other events that cause double-lane backups at the Lafayette exit around 6pm. It's not hard to get put in a position where you can't see what's behind you in the left lane and have to accelerate from 0-70 [[center to left) in two seconds and then get all the way over to the right lane in less than 1/4 mile to exit again.

I don't know what impact the traffic ramp will have ultimately, but I can see from the air that in the morning, it's primarily BCBS and at night, it's GTC. So I don't think it takes a lot of logical leaps to conclude that an exit that offloads that traffic more efficiently will help things, particularly at night. That traffic in theory could exit at Larned, but then it has to make its way back up fairly narrow streets to get back to where it is trying to go. And given what is along those routes, I don't see any positive impact from it.

At a high level, I think there is a planning issue - the north end of the CBD street grid was never designed to absorb 40,000 cars in an hour, let alone meandering Lions fans who believe there will be free surface parking within a block of Ford field 15 minutes before kickoff [[their faith is powerful in so many ways…). It would seem to make a lot more sense to get at least the stadium traffic off at Mack and develop the east side of Brush Park [[or north of Gratiot) to be the pre-game zone. Having stadium traffic exit at Lafayette and try to loop around is not a great idea.

HB

[That Great Guy]

The restoration of $40 Million per year for operating costs to SMART would be a much better idea and make much more sense.

Too bad the vast majority of voters support drastic cuts in public bus service. If we demanded mass transit leadership at the voting booth, Mr. Gilbert could hire more people and pay them more.

[Honky Tonk]

Don't misquote me; that's a tired tactic of the left. I'm simply stating fact. If it makes you feel better, any vehicle doing 10 mph in a traffic lane will probably get the same response, especially if it holds up traffic then slides through every red light. It's a different world than it was in the 20s.

Build the ramp. Then reconstruct I-94 so it looks like the new section of I-96 so those who drive this economy can get to it.

Amen. We've already tried "art" and "growing your own", and it doesn't seem to be bringing Detroit's economy back by much.