Militarized Police Departments

[Wesley Mouch]

Um, not that I am opposed to the militarization of police departments, but who said anything about eliminating SWAT teams? SWAT teams were always heavily armed and are necessary.

The way it looks to me is that the debate is about the standard patrol officer being militarized. For example, with Windsor police, they are replacing the standard police shotgun that would be in the trunk of a regular squad car with a C-6 machine gun [[cousin to the M-16). Willi mentioned that the average Mexican police officer is fully decked out in SWAT gear patrolling shopping centers and streets in Mexico city. In the US, are we talking about regular police officers having machine guns OR are we questioning SWAT teams? Because taking away the equipment from SWAT teams sounds absolutely ridiculous in this day and age, but SWAT teams only make up a small part of a police department and they are much better trained in not accidentally hitting an innocent bystander in an intense situation like a shoot out during a bank robbery. They are the best of the best sharp shooters in a police department.

I hate the slippery slope argument... but if you are continually attacking the police department for doing anything aggressive, you shouldn't be surprised when you have a passive PD.

Some of the critics of each and every PD tactic are insatiable. Taking gear away because it might be misused is just as likely to affect drug busts, SWAT as well as riot response.

[Wesley Mouch]

F@&% Lawrence Campbell...

I've no sympathy for a premeditated cop-killer.

It is very sad to me that there would be a celebration of cop-killing. There's a huge dysfunction here that shouldn't be ignored. Ferguson isn't about militarized PD. Its about the black underclass there believing that the system is so against them that cop-killing is worth a memorial.

3,000 killed in WTC. Celebrations by Hamas.

Cop killed in Jersey City. Memorial to the murderer.

Some blame right-wing nuts. And they deserve some blame. But I also blame left-wingers who offer attacks on the 1% rather than self-improvement as a solution.

[Fulcanelli]

YouTube: search for police brutality or police harassment and watch a few videos. There is definitely a change in attitude from the police department in dealing with citizens. Though it wasn't covered much, the police were performing preemptive raids at the Republican National Convention in Minnesota. They arrested journalist engaged in doing their job, delegated an area for staged protests that was so far out of the way, it really neutralized the right of people to have their side heard. The police confiscated memory cards from cameras and phones in one area.

I believe this new attitude is a side effect of the Patriot Act and our loss of rights. These new military toys are very dangerous in the hands of our law enforcement departments who have so little respect for the citizens they are paid to serve and protect.

[davewindsor]

I hate the slippery slope argument... but if you are continually attacking the police department for doing anything aggressive, you shouldn't be surprised when you have a passive PD.

I'm assuming you meant to say "they" not "you". The slippery slope argument is not a logically valid argument.

Some of the critics of each and every PD tactic are insatiable. Taking gear away because it might be misused is just as likely to affect drug busts, SWAT as well as riot response.

And some of those critics have a hidden agenda too.

But, a regular patrol officer might not have enough training to handle a machine gun in a civilian environment like a better trained and more experienced SWAT member. Let's not forget, an officer can be hired right after high school graduation and sent to police college for a few months and then they are out on the streets doing police work.

[JBMcB]

There's probably more to the story if they are sending out SWAT teams instead of regular officers to raid the home of a deadbeat dad, etc.

That's the crux of my argument. Most of the time there isn't more to the story. The cops get a tip off of some junkie informant for angling for a lighter sentence, and they go busting doors down, armed to the teeth.

Are telling me it's impossible that those suspects would ever be armed and barricaded inside with a machine gun?

No, but that's hardly reason to treat *everyone* as though they could be.

If the situation is too dangerous and there's a tip that the suspect is armed, you have to send in better equipped SWAT.

Again, the problem is that usually there is no tip that a suspect is armed - or the tip comes from a much less than reliable source - or the cops simply get an address wrong. [QUOTE]There is a procedure here that's "supposed" to be followed. You're absolutely right. And if the proper procedure was followed, and officers punished for not following that procedure, I'd be somewhat more open to the idea of arming them with military weapons. As it stands now, a SWAT team can bust into your house and mow you down in your bed based on little more than a shoddy "tip" and nobody will be held accountable.

[davewindsor]

That's the crux of my argument. Most of the time there isn't more to the story. The cops get a tip off of some junkie informant for angling for a lighter sentence, and they go busting doors down, armed to the teeth. No, but that's hardly reason to treat *everyone* as though they could be. Again, the problem is that usually there is no tip that a suspect is armed - or the tip comes from a much less than reliable source - or the cops simply get an address wrong. There is a procedure here that's "supposed" to be followed. You're absolutely right. And if the proper procedure was followed, and officers punished for not following that procedure, I'd be somewhat more open to the idea of arming them with military weapons. As it stands now, a SWAT team can bust into your house and mow you down in your bed based on little more than a shoddy "tip" and nobody will be held accountable.

Not accountable? Officers do get punished for not following procedures. Officers have been demoted, fired and/or convicted of criminal offenses including murder. Police departments have been sued for years for police misconduct and had to pay out huge settlements when an officer is not following procedures. Just google "police misconduct settlements". Just for dealing with last year alone, Chicago has to do a bond issue to pay $100m for settlements of police misconduct. Often those officers haven't had enough training in dealing with the public.

And junkie informants are not going to get a lighter sentence if their "tip" is false or "shoddy". The lighter sentence is conditional upon a conviction of someone else using good information. That's the built-in incentive structure for giving out legitimate tips. And a warrant still has to be issued by a learned judge.

So your argument that nobody is accountable for police misconduct simply doesn't hold water. But, arming the average patrol officer with machine guns that doesn't have enough training to use them in a civilian environment will be an even bigger liability to the taxpayer. God didn't make humans to be infallible, but SWAT is necessary and much better trained for handling machine guns in dangerous scenarios. Better training leads to less police misconduct, but it can never be eliminated, only constrained and reduced.

[CassTechGrad]

Deyfon Pipkins has spent a lot of time in the Dallas County jail over the past decade, having been arrested a half dozen times on theft charges since 2003.Police say he was back at it again at 4:15 p..m. on Monday afternoon, when he targeted a house in the 2200 block of Morrell Avenue in East Oak Cliff.

This time, the 33-year-old poor Mr. Pipkins's luck was worse than usual. The elderly homeowner, who wasn't identified by police, was there, and he had a gun. When he heard poor Mr. Pipkins trying to crawl through his window, he shot him.

When police arrived, they found poor Mr. Pipkins' lifeless body hanging from the open window.

This is what what was the family said about poor Mr. Pipkins when thay came to claim the body:
Lakesha Thompson, poor Mr. Pipkins' sister-in-law, complained. “The homeowner could have let him know that he did have a gun in his house!!

This is what the family should have said to poor Mr. Pipkins long before he went to the house on Morrell avenue!!

Deyfon, yo’ need to quit breakin’ into those peoples’ houses and stealin’ shit. Else somebody gonna to pop a cap in yo’ ass...
The poor Mr. Pipkins:

The moral to the story: The police are racist bigoted hateful murderess out-of-control terrorists!!!

[Wesley Mouch]

...As it stands now, a SWAT team can bust into your house and mow you down in your bed based on little more than a shoddy "tip" and nobody will be held accountable.

I dunno. SWAT teams are mistakenly busting into the houses across the country and nobody is being held accountable? I don't believe it. Bring on a reliable source that says we have this problem. I'm sure mistakes are made here and there. Life is like that. But 'nobody held accountable'? Don't believe it for a second.

[Gpwrangler]

I dunno. SWAT teams are mistakenly busting into the houses across the country and nobody is being held accountable? I don't believe it. Bring on a reliable source that says we have this problem. I'm sure mistakes are made here and there. Life is like that. But 'nobody held accountable'? Don't believe it for a second.

Because it's not a problem.

As long as criminals are driving bulletproof Suburbans and Hummers I want the cops to have something bigger.

[jt1]

Because it's not a problem.

As long as criminals are driving bulletproof Suburbans and Hummers I want the cops to have something bigger.

I'd be interested a list of times that criminals have used bulletproof Suburbans and Hummers. I'm sure it must be extremely prevalent if you are citing that as a need for militarized police.

[ABetterDetroit]

I'd be interested a list of times that criminals have used bulletproof Suburbans and Hummers. I'm sure it must be extremely prevalent if you are citing that as a need for militarized police.

LOL I think reality was suspended on that one some. Next they will have RPGs defending street corners to sell dime bags on and cruise missiles for the drug houses...

[Gpwrangler]

I'd be interested a list of times that criminals have used bulletproof Suburbans and Hummers. I'm sure it must be extremely prevalent if you are citing that as a need for militarized police.

I guess I'd be more interested in who opposes this, and why.

[Wesley Mouch]

So what the fuck exactly would Hamtramck need a black humvee for?

Come visit Campau around 1am on Saturday night and see for yourself.

They use it appropriately. I remember seeing it at the festival, and it helped reinforce the police's position as keeper of the peace.

What the f--- exactly makes you a good arbiter of police practices and needs?

[stasu1213]

I had saw a Chinonook fly over the downtown area two days ago. Is the military operating in Detroit

[stasu1213]

I saw a Chinook. Sorry for the typo. A Chinook is a military helicopter

[Honky Tonk]

I had saw a Chinonook fly over the downtown area two days ago. Is the military operating in Detroit

Selfridge AFB files them regularly over the Detroit River contouring the shoreline.

[Dan Wesson]

Americans more likely to be killed by police than by terrorists

FBI statistics say so...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVLN4hG4PiQ

[Jimaz]

Americans more likely to be killed by police than by terrorists

FBI statistics say so...

Well, that puts things into perspective. Thanks for the link.

I guess that's to be expected but it's interesting that we don't hear that point mentioned more often.

[Jimaz]

Okay, this isn't police but it does show how silly "militarization" can get:

Armed Border Thugs Bust Late-Night Ring Of Bat Scientists

[Gpwrangler]

Well, that puts things into perspective. Thanks for the link.

I guess that's to be expected but it's interesting that we don't hear that point mentioned more often.

Kind of a ridiculous statistic. The chance of either happening to a law abiding citizen is almost nil. Non-law abiding citizens...you take your chances.

[Jimaz]

Attachment 24428
How "Protect & Serve" Became "Search & Destroy"

Ever wonder why police look like soldiers? With the 1033 Programs, "Protect and Serve" Became "Search and Destroy" WATCH MORE: Do you want to change the world? • Brave New Films Channel Trailer.

You can fight back. Join us: Brave New Films
SIGN THE PETITION: Local Police with War Weapons: End This Now!

Quick facts on Police Militarization:

• Pentagon’s Excess Property Program [[1033 Program) has supplied police departments across the country with more than $4.3 billion in gear since 1997. This includes $449 million in 2013.
• St. Louis County, where Ferguson is located, received two military vehicles, a trailer, a generator, 12 5.56-millimeter rifles and six .45 caliber pistols from the Pentagon.
• Military style police raids have increased in recent years, with one count putting the number at 80,000 such raids last year.
• In SWAT style raids, people of color are most affected - 37% were Black, 12% Latino, and 19% White. Race was not known for the remainder.

Police militarization grew out of our failed drug war. Does a town of 2,200 need a massive military tank? Why does the police department in Dundee Michigan need a MRAP [[Mine-Resistant, Ambush-Protected vehicle)? They don’t. Military grade gear does not improve the safety and security in small towns. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel must end the flow of military grade gear from the Pentagon to our local communities. It’s time for the militarizing of police to end.

Last month, protests in Ferguson, MO turned violent after police showed up in full SWAT gear after fellow officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Michael Brown. But Ferguson isn’t the only community receiving military grade weaponry from the Pentagon.

We need to roll back programs 1033, 1122, and the National Defense Authorization Act. Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri will chair a subcommittee hearing tomorrow on Capitol Hill looking into police militarization.

You can fight back. Join us: Brave New Films

SIGN THE PETITION: Local Police with War Weapons: End This Now!

Click here to watch more: F35, The jet that ate the Pentagon • BRAVE NEW FILMS: SECURITY #1

ABOUT BRAVE NEW FILMS
Robert Greenwald and Brave New Films are at the forefront of the fight to create a just America. Using new media and internet video campaigns, Brave New Films has created a quick-strike capability that informs the public, challenges corporate media with the truth, and motivates people to take action on social issues nationwide. Brave New Films’ investigative films have scrutinized the impact of U.S. drone strikes; the war on whistleblowers; and Wal Mart’s corporate practices. The company’s films have received more than 56 million views online. For more information, watch videos at Brave New Films, and follow them on Twitter and Robert Greenwald on Twitter.

• Brave New Films
• F35BadDeal.com

[ABetterDetroit]

I guess I'd be more interested in who opposes this, and why.

Some of us are regular law abiding citizens, and the why is we think that police should be out in the communities as people that are part of the communities. Meeting kids in school when their young, knowing some of the good guys on the beat as well as the bad. Slow rolls with 2 in the car then park it in the middle of the block and get out and walk back and forth on the same block and attempt to meet the people who live there, repeat. Heavily armed guys that want the best toys to fight wars should go do just that, lord knows we have no shortage of people who want to kill us overseas, there are great job opportunities if that is your thing. You have to be careful, boys and their toys can and will get out of hand especially when someone else pays the bill. Not saying there isn't a need for a swat team just keep it under control and for use when needed. If a new recruit doesn't have any interest in comunity police work and is looking for a military type job I would show him the door to the US army.

[Islandman]

Come visit Campau around 1am on Saturday night and see for yourself.

They use it appropriately. I remember seeing it at the festival, and it helped reinforce the police's position as keeper of the peace.

What the f--- exactly makes you a good arbiter of police practices and needs?

I've lived on Joseph Campau, and there has never been a need for a Humvee on that street, at any time time of day or night. It is one of the few streets in Hamtown that you could drive that monstrosity down without destroying all of the other vehicles.

So wearing a gun and badge does not reinforce the police's position as keeper of the peace?