Militarized Police Departments

[Gpwrangler]

So what the fuck exactly would Hamtramck need a black humvee for?

Hopefully they will not need it.

[nain rouge]

so what the fuck exactly would hamtramck need a black humvee for?

The attack of the killer pierogi!

[poobert]

I think it excessive and antagonistic. You're only going to generate resentment and fear looking like you're going to war with your citizens.

However, I ask this: what is a bigger problem in this country: the police wearing Ghostbuster gear or urban violent crime? For me as a Detroit resident, that is an extremely easy-to-answer question.

It shocks me that African Americans gun down each other en masse every day but when a white officer is the perpetrator THAT is when the outrage begins? Priorities, people. .

I think is largely just a question of racial hatred, on both sides. The cops don't like black folk and black folk don't like white cops [[or white people, in many cases).

Count me in the middle someplace. Less Ghostbuster gear for the local boys, and direct your outrage against all violence, not just when it comes from somebody who doesn't look like you.

[ABetterDetroit]

Debt-to-GDP percentage is far more meaningful than a raw number. And that percentage has been much higher before. The US took on a ton of debt during World War II and it took awhile to bring the debt back within reason.

Granted, the US is racking up a lot of debt currently, and though the country has been involved in several wars, we can all agree that it hasn't been at all comparable to World War II. Now is that enough evidence to say we're heading for collapse?

Not quite. Japan has carried WAY more debt than the US for a long time relative to GDP and is doing OK. Greece and Italy, however, have taken big hits from somewhat similar debt levels to Japan. It all depends on what you can leverage against the debt, and for now the US has a lot to leverage with. Even in a worst case scenario, I don't think what could happen in the US would be any worse than Greece and Italy, both of which never came close to a total collapse of any sort. Just protests and lean times.

Well stated. When I argue with "doomsayers" I always ask 3 questions.
Who sets the interest rate? US federal reserve
What other currency is doing well and even comes anywhere close to being the world standard for trade? None. Euro has already been on the brink of failure, Chinese Yuan? Your kidding right? The US dollar is THE ONLY GAME on planet earth.
What about the 3.5 trillion annual income of US government? Huge some of money largest pot of cash on earth by a long margin bigger than the total GNP of all but the 3 largest economies in the world. That kind of income gives anyone nothing but a huge borrowing potential. Most "doomsayers" I find just want it to happen so bad because they hate the US government so much [[ ain't freedom great ) and deny all the appropriate facts.

[Dan Wesson]

Well stated. When I argue with "doomsayers" I always ask 3 questions.
Who sets the interest rate? US federal reserve
What other currency is doing well and even comes anywhere close to being the world standard for trade? None. Euro has already been on the brink of failure, Chinese Yuan? Your kidding right? The US dollar is THE ONLY GAME on planet earth.
What about the 3.5 trillion annual income of US government? Huge some of money largest pot of cash on earth by a long margin bigger than the total GNP of all but the 3 largest economies in the world. That kind of income gives anyone nothing but a huge borrowing potential. Most "doomsayers" I find just want it to happen so bad because they hate the US government so much [[ ain't freedom great ) and deny all the appropriate facts.

These are the waning days of the U.S.$'s run.

We abused the privilege of maintaining the worlds reserve currency.

Even more important was the lock the $, [[petrodollar), had involving the world's oil and energy trade.

Recently, because of these sanctions against Russia and Iran along with China's annoyance of our devaluing the $'s they hold, Russia, Europe and China have agreed to trade Rubles and Euros in the west and Rubles and Yuan in the east for oil and gas. Bypassing the $.

What is coming are SDR's. Google that.

[313WX]

So what the fuck exactly would Hamtramck need a black humvee for?

The question is, what do they intend to use it for that can't be done without it?

[Meddle]

A. Anybody who thinks what happened in Ferguson was a 'riot' wasn't around in the 60s, or even the 90s in LA or Miami.

B. I can understand the Feds excessing off certain vehicles and equipment instead of destroying it. Humvees can be used in search and rescue operations or for other functions after natural disasters. I can even see limited use for the MRAPs for municipal bomb squads. Maybe even for SWAT use in certain barricade situations or hostage rescues. But not for general SWAT use the way they have been recently.

C. DPD SRT has had a Bearcat APC since the 70s or so. I've seen it in use several times in the 80s. It had a long T-post/pole attached to the front that was used to push through doors.

D. Some of y'all done had too many helpings of Conspir-i-O's fer breakfast.

[Gpwrangler]

The question is, what do they intend to use it for that can't be done without it?

Um...maybe a riot?

[nain rouge]

These are the waning days of the U.S.$'s run.

We abused the privilege of maintaining the worlds reserve currency.

Well, I agree with you there, but I think there is a big difference between the end of economic dominance and economic collapse. Granted, you aren't the one that said collapse is coming, but I just wanted to make that point clear. There's a lot of wiggle room in our economy. Is a country where the majority can't afford a bunch of electronic gadgets collapsed?

In my mind, collapse only happens if there is a sudden, unexpected, catastrophic shortage of food, water, or energy. Otherwise, the worst case scenario is a noticeably lower standard of living, nothing more, nothing less.

[313WX]

Um...maybe a riot?

The police handled riots just fine in the past without nearly as much militarization.

And if in the rare instance the riots reached Detroit 1967-levels, then the actual military was called in...

[ABetterDetroit]

These are the waning days of the U.S.$'s run.

We abused the privilege of maintaining the world's reserve currency.

Even more important was the lock the $, [[petrodollar), had involving the world's oil and energy trade.

Recently, because of these sanctions against Russia and Iran along with China's annoyance of our devaluing the $'s they hold, Russia, Europe and China have agreed to trade Rubles and Euros in the west and Rubles and Yuan in the east for oil and gas. Bypassing the $.

What is coming are SDR's. Google that.

IMF? LOL even funnier than the united nations currency you guys had floating in ships off the coast in days gone by. Who do you think keeps the IMF in business? It's not the Russians or the Chinese I can assure you of that. You are aware that banks or nations outside of Russia and China don't hold much of either of those currencies as a reserve due to the fact that one is pegged by a few communist and the other is printed mostly by gangsters?
There have been many attemps to trade oil in other currencies in the past due to American dislike [[gooogle that some) and it has always ended in failure [[even euro) because one party of the deal was always feeling that they were getting screwed.

Go count your pre 64 silver coins and wait. Reminds me of the time my brother had to prep a house in Florida for the estate sale in the late 90s. The guy had bricked off his garage and had a brand new 1978 jeep CJ in there with a dozen 55s of gasoline, piles of food and guns and such. At the time it was 50k house in a crap neighborhood. He committed suicide and his sisters from out of state hired my brother to liquidate, they hadn't talked to him in years because he had slowly gone insane waiting for "it" to happen.

[313WX]

BTW, expecting simply a "gradual lowering of living standards" is an extremely optimistic perspective on things. It's not just about the health of the US dollar and the US National Debt.

Right now, you have an unprecedented number of entities on the verge of bankruptcy because they haven't been able to eliminate or pay off the debt they've accumulated from the last recession. You also have millions of people who depend on the financial solvency of these entities, whether it's for government assistance or for jobs. There's a good chance many of these entities won't be able to handle another stock market collapse and subsequent decline in economic production. And when these people lose their means of survival, they'll "lose it" accordingly.

The only saving grace before was the Trillions of dollars in bailout money that was handled out to major companies. Otherwise, we'd probably be in the midst of a 2nd Great Depression. That said, the government may not be able to afford to bail out anyone this time around, and the government's well aware of this [[thus the militarization of police departments).

[Cliffy]

I can't blame the police for having all these weapons. When you see these mass shootings and then see the weapon that was used, I always go "wow, I didn't think that was legal".

[Gpwrangler]

The police handled riots just fine in the past without nearly as much militarization.

And if in the rare instance the riots reached Detroit 1967-levels, then the actual military was called in...

Just fine? Half the city burned.

One thing I'll always vote yes on is police and fire equipment. Whatever they want, as much as they want.

[subsidized]

I can't blame the police for having all these weapons. When you see these mass shootings and then see the weapon that was used, I always go "wow, I didn't think that was legal".

Funny how not a single mass shooting has ended with the police crashing into a building with an armored vehicle and launching grenades at the perpetrators thus saving more lives. Most mass shooting end with the perp committing suicide.

[ABetterDetroit]

The only saving grace before was the Trillions of dollars in bailout money that was handled out to major companies. Otherwise, we'd probably be in the midst of a 2nd Great Depression. That said, the government may not be able to afford to bail out anyone this time around, and the government's well aware of this [[thus the militarization of police departments).

The DOD surplus program where LE had access to the what the military no longer wanted or needed was completely born out of 9/11. I hope that everyone can understand that the possible threats to human life on American soil was seriously reconsidered after that event. What changed after 9/11 was not either a radical left wing agenda or a vast right wing conspiracy, just an attempt to make our country more secure.

[Honky Tonk]

The DOD surplus program where LE had access to the what the military no longer wanted or needed was completely born out of 9/11. I hope that everyone can understand that the possible threats to human life on American soil was seriously reconsidered after that event. What changed after 9/11 was not either a radical left wing agenda or a vast right wing conspiracy, just an attempt to make our country more secure.

Bravo.....

[subsidized]

The DOD surplus program where LE had access to the what the military no longer wanted or needed was completely born out of 9/11. I hope that everyone can understand that the possible threats to human life on American soil was seriously reconsidered after that event. What changed after 9/11 was not either a radical left wing agenda or a vast right wing conspiracy, just an attempt to make our country more secure.

I thought that's what the Department of Homeland Security was for. Maybe the DOD surplus program is an attempt to increase profits for the companies that make these weapons and supplies. If it was truly set up to protect American lives from the threat of terrorism, why would there be a rule that this stuff must be used within a year or whatever amount of time? Does terrorism expire? "It was born out of 9/11" five years after 9/11, during which time no other terrorist attacks had occurred on American soil. Whereas the Patriot Act which was really born out of 9/11 was signed into law a little more than a month after. I don't buy the for profit scare tactics but apparently many do.

[Dan Wesson]

IMF? LOL even funnier than the united nations currency you guys had floating in ships off the coast in days gone by. Who do you think keeps the IMF in business? It's not the Russians or the Chinese I can assure you of that. You are aware that banks or nations outside of Russia and China don't hold much of either of those currencies as a reserve due to the fact that one is pegged by a few communist and the other is printed mostly by gangsters?
There have been many attemps to trade oil in other currencies in the past due to American dislike [[gooogle that some) and it has always ended in failure [[even euro) because one party of the deal was always feeling that they were getting screwed.

Go count your pre 64 silver coins and wait. Reminds me of the time my brother had to prep a house in Florida for the estate sale in the late 90s. The guy had bricked off his garage and had a brand new 1978 jeep CJ in there with a dozen 55s of gasoline, piles of food and guns and such. At the time it was 50k house in a crap neighborhood. He committed suicide and his sisters from out of state hired my brother to liquidate, they hadn't talked to him in years because he had slowly gone insane waiting for "it" to happen.

http://www.scmp.com/business/banking...nearer-reserve

[Dan Wesson]

The DOD surplus program where LE had access to the what the military no longer wanted or needed was completely born out of 9/11. I hope that everyone can understand that the possible threats to human life on American soil was seriously reconsidered after that event. What changed after 9/11 was not either a radical left wing agenda or a vast right wing conspiracy, just an attempt to make our country more secure.

It was started in the early 90's... really

Some light reading,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLA_Disposition_Services

[Islandman]

I wonder where Hamtramck found the $$$ for the black police Humvee it was showing off last night? I guess the current EM figures she can cut firefighters and police [[again) but spring for that "show of weakness", not to mention the derision and comments that were made every time it drove by. I'm sure the minority /majority population there is pleased by the sight of such a military style vehicle...as if it reminds them of home or something......

They have two of them. They got them for $1 each, according to the Hamtramck police chief.

[Wesley Mouch]

I think it excessive and antagonistic. You're only going to generate resentment and fear looking like you're going to war with your citizens.

However, I ask this: what is a bigger problem in this country: the police wearing Ghostbuster gear or urban violent crime? For me as a Detroit resident, that is an extremely easy-to-answer question.

It shocks me that African Americans gun down each other en masse every day but when a white officer is the perpetrator THAT is when the outrage begins? Priorities, people. .

I think is largely just a question of racial hatred, on both sides. The cops don't like black folk and black folk don't like white cops [[or white people, in many cases).

Count me in the middle someplace. Less Ghostbuster gear for the local boys, and direct your outrage against all violence, not just when it comes from somebody who doesn't look like you.

Spot on pooeybear.... as a Hamtramck resident... I share your feelings on which risk is more real. [[And btw, I have been the receipient of over-aggressive frisking by DPD for no reason whatsoever except being in the wrong place.)

I write though to discuss your other point. Racial hatred. Do you really think racial hatred is a majority opinion among policy and blacks? I sure don't. Does it exist? Of course. Do we work to eliminate? Absolutely? But do we assume that every cop is racist? No. Does every black person dislike every white cop? No. But a few bad eggs sure do stink.

[ABetterDetroit]

I thought that's what the Department of Homeland Security was for. Maybe the DOD surplus program is an attempt to increase profits for the companies that make these weapons and supplies. If it was truly set up to protect American lives from the threat of terrorism, why would there be a rule that this stuff must be used within a year or whatever amount of time? Does terrorism expire? "It was born out of 9/11" five years after 9/11, during which time no other terrorist attacks had occurred on American soil. Whereas the Patriot Act which was really born out of 9/11 was signed into law a little more than a month after. I don't buy the for profit scare tactics but apparently many do.

Oh that's an easy one, because that MUST BE USED IN ONE YEAR is total bullshit. Made up and sold to you in a neat little bow that you found very pretty by the left wing liberal idiots that think that the DOD is the root of all evil and peace will reign on earth when the USA eliminates its military. The actual fact is that the LE dept cannot resell the surplus [[look up surplus there are no profits in the crap you dont want or have budget to support) if they despose of said surplus it must be returned to the DOD. And yes it did start immediately after 9/11 and was fully active by 2003. Don't get pissed at me because you don't like the program, I had nothing to do with it but it doesn't change the fact that 9/11 is why it exist and the program has nothing to do with what ever stupid conspiracy can be dreamt up.

[ABetterDetroit]

It was started in the early 90's... really

Some light reading,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLA_Disposition_Services

The good stuff didn't start till the program was ramped up after 9/11. Give me a break here Dan your pissed about the belt fed toys that you have to be richer than snot shit to buy and they get em for free. The leftys are tearin me a new one because they think the RVs the police have and their ceramic body armor should never be allowed because it looks "scary". By the way those packs were awesome, do you interchange the lengths often? Is it hard to get them adjusted just right when you do?

[ABetterDetroit]

http://www.scmp.com/business/banking...nearer-reserve

Oh I agree completely with that. Rome wasn't built in a day or did it fall in a day. But it doesn't change the fact that we had to bail out the euro by buying them with dollars so the fall is still not at the gate. I repeat, the dollar is the only game on the planet, until there is a viable replacement no worries, we set the interest rate. Time is still our friend. The most wealthy people in existence have no interest in pulling the rug out, so for the rest of us that kinda works.