I don't know what to think...

**Jimaz** · August-31-14, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

... the vast majority of posters there are dumbfounded....

I couldn't have said it better myself.

You all need to about-face your "fairytale" stance for your own sake.

**Gpwrangler** · September-01-14, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

You made my point. You're lost.

Save yourself before you're swallowed. Revoke your NRA membership. Save your 9-year-old daughter if you even ever cared about her.

Like I said, don't like it don't join. Don't like living under the Constitution there are alternatives to that too.

**canuck** · September-02-14, 06:50 PM

Just found this in the Freep:
http://m.freep.com/opinion/article?a...9020138&f=1237

Leonard Pitts Jr.: An Uzi, a 9-year-old and American exceptionalism
By Leonard Pitts Jr. The Miami Herald
September 2, 2014

Firing-range instructor Charles Vacca shows a 9-year old girl how to use an Uzi. Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl last month at the Last Stop range in Arizona, when the girl squeezed the trigger, causing the Uzi to recoil upward and shoot Vacca in the head.
Firing-range instructor Charles Vacca shows a 9-year old girl how to use an Uzi. Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl last month at the Last Stop range in Arizona, when the girl squeezed the trigger, causing the Uzi to recoil upward and shoot Vacca in the head. - Mohave County Sheriff Department via Associated Pr

Sometimes you read a sentence and you think to yourself: only here, only us.

Here's one such sentence: "A 9-year-old girl from New Jersey accidentally shot and killed her instructor with an Uzi submachine gun while he stood to her left side, trying to guide her."

That's from a New York Times account of the death of 39-year-old Charles Vacca, who worked for the Last Stop shooting range in White Hills, Ariz. He died Aug. 25, when the little girl he was training lost control of the Uzi. Apparently, the gun was in "repeat fire" mode, the recoil lifted the muzzle, the little girl couldn't master it, and Vacca was struck in the head.

The child and her family, who have not been identified, were vacationing last week in nearby Las Vegas and had signed up for a package deal offered by the gun range. It included a tour of Hoover Dam, a hamburger lunch, an optional helicopter flight over the Grand Canyon and the chance to fire a range of powerful weapons, including sniper rifles, grenade launchers and machine guns. Everything was going fine until, as the Times put it, the "adventure went horribly wrong."

For the record, some of us would argue that "horribly wrong" began, not when the child lost control of the gun, but when "adults" first placed this powerful piece of military hardware into her tiny hands. That act raises questions that are as blunt and indecorous as they are necessary and unavoidable:

What kind of shooting range allows a prepubescent girl to fire an Uzi? What kind of instructor does not guard against recoil when a child is handling such a powerful weapon? What kind of parents think it's a good idea to put a submachine gun in their 9-year-old's hands? And what kind of idiot country does not prohibit such things by law?

It is the last question that should most concern us. There's not much you can do about individual lack of judgment. Some people will always be idiots. Some companies will always be idiots. But a country and its laws should be an expression of a people's collective wisdom. So for a country to be idiotic says something sweeping about national character.

And where gun laws are concerned, the United States of America is -- individual dissenting voices duly noted and exempted from the following descriptive -- dumber than a bag of bullets. This, after all, is the country where you can take a gun into a bar. Where you can erect a shooting range in your own backyard. Where a blind person can get a gun permit. You think it's insane that Arizona allows a 9-year-old to shoot at a firing range? ABC News reports that one in Texas allows them to do so at age 6.

Six.

God bless America. We legislate against sharia law in places where there are no Muslims, much less an inclination toward sharia. We pass laws to curtail election fraud despite the fact that election fraud, as a practical matter, does not exist. Yet we endure a yearly toll of gun carnage that makes civilized people in civilized places shake their heads in wonder -- and our only action is inaction.

We should mourn for this little girl, who will have to live the rest of her life with the memory of what she inadvertently did. But let us also mourn for a country where what she did now barely qualifies as news.

We speak often and with pride of America's exceptionalism -- by which we mean our rights, our freedoms, our values. And they are, make no mistake, among the finest in the world.

But there are days when the bullets fly and the blood flows and no one can give you a good reason why this had to happen, and it occurs to you that we are also exceptional in the sheer, stubborn stupidity of which we are all too often capable. Last week brought another such day. A man was killed by a 9-year-old wielding a submachine gun.

Only here, only us.

Leonard Pitts Jr. is a columnist for the Miami Herald. Contact him at lpitts@miamiherald.com.

**Honky Tonk** · September-02-14, 07:31 PM

Some shithead stabs an innocent kid to death in a schoolyard, everyone starts shedding tears for the perp, then the conversation turns to gun control. Only on DetroitYES! Tell you what, if the nine year old had a gun, he'd be alive today.

**Gpwrangler** · September-02-14, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Just found this in the Freep:
http://m.freep.com/opinion/article?a...9020138&f=1237

Leonard Pitts Jr.: An Uzi, a 9-year-old and American exceptionalism
By Leonard Pitts Jr. The Miami Herald
September 2, 2014

Firing-range instructor Charles Vacca shows a 9-year old girl how to use an Uzi. Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl last month at the Last Stop range in Arizona, when the girl squeezed the trigger, causing the Uzi to recoil upward and shoot Vacca in the head.
Firing-range instructor Charles Vacca shows a 9-year old girl how to use an Uzi. Vacca, 39, was standing next to the girl last month at the Last Stop range in Arizona, when the girl squeezed the trigger, causing the Uzi to recoil upward and shoot Vacca in the head. - Mohave County Sheriff Department via Associated Pr

Sometimes you read a sentence and you think to yourself: only here, only us.

Here's one such sentence: "A 9-year-old girl from New Jersey accidentally shot and killed her instructor with an Uzi submachine gun while he stood to her left side, trying to guide her."

That's from a New York Times account of the death of 39-year-old Charles Vacca, who worked for the Last Stop shooting range in White Hills, Ariz. He died Aug. 25, when the little girl he was training lost control of the Uzi. Apparently, the gun was in "repeat fire" mode, the recoil lifted the muzzle, the little girl couldn't master it, and Vacca was struck in the head.

The child and her family, who have not been identified, were vacationing last week in nearby Las Vegas and had signed up for a package deal offered by the gun range. It included a tour of Hoover Dam, a hamburger lunch, an optional helicopter flight over the Grand Canyon and the chance to fire a range of powerful weapons, including sniper rifles, grenade launchers and machine guns. Everything was going fine until, as the Times put it, the "adventure went horribly wrong."

For the record, some of us would argue that "horribly wrong" began, not when the child lost control of the gun, but when "adults" first placed this powerful piece of military hardware into her tiny hands. That act raises questions that are as blunt and indecorous as they are necessary and unavoidable:

What kind of shooting range allows a prepubescent girl to fire an Uzi? What kind of instructor does not guard against recoil when a child is handling such a powerful weapon? What kind of parents think it's a good idea to put a submachine gun in their 9-year-old's hands? And what kind of idiot country does not prohibit such things by law?

It is the last question that should most concern us. There's not much you can do about individual lack of judgment. Some people will always be idiots. Some companies will always be idiots. But a country and its laws should be an expression of a people's collective wisdom. So for a country to be idiotic says something sweeping about national character.

And where gun laws are concerned, the United States of America is -- individual dissenting voices duly noted and exempted from the following descriptive -- dumber than a bag of bullets. This, after all, is the country where you can take a gun into a bar. Where you can erect a shooting range in your own backyard. Where a blind person can get a gun permit. You think it's insane that Arizona allows a 9-year-old to shoot at a firing range? ABC News reports that one in Texas allows them to do so at age 6.

Six.

God bless America. We legislate against sharia law in places where there are no Muslims, much less an inclination toward sharia. We pass laws to curtail election fraud despite the fact that election fraud, as a practical matter, does not exist. Yet we endure a yearly toll of gun carnage that makes civilized people in civilized places shake their heads in wonder -- and our only action is inaction.

We should mourn for this little girl, who will have to live the rest of her life with the memory of what she inadvertently did. But let us also mourn for a country where what she did now barely qualifies as news.

We speak often and with pride of America's exceptionalism -- by which we mean our rights, our freedoms, our values. And they are, make no mistake, among the finest in the world.

But there are days when the bullets fly and the blood flows and no one can give you a good reason why this had to happen, and it occurs to you that we are also exceptional in the sheer, stubborn stupidity of which we are all too often capable. Last week brought another such day. A man was killed by a 9-year-old wielding a submachine gun.

Only here, only us.

Leonard Pitts Jr. is a columnist for the Miami Herald. Contact him at lpitts@miamiherald.com.

So when is the author leaving the country?

**Dan Wesson** · September-03-14, 12:35 PM

This thread has been hijacked. Not once but twice at least. It started out as an example of piss poor parenting enabled by the nanny state.

As for Mr. Pitts of Florida he can STFU.

**canuck** · September-03-14, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

This thread has been hijacked. Not once but twice at least. It started out as an example of piss poor parenting enabled by the nanny state.

As for Mr. Pitts of Florida he can STFU.

You've hijacked threads in your time. I'll plead guilty this time to introducing another case in parallel to the O.P.'s. In really don't see any problem widening the view to include the poor parenting both kids were dealt. As for Mr. Pitts, he should of course not have an opinion contrary to yours on this subject. Free speech is for wusses, show me your Smith and Wessons.

**canuck** · September-03-14, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Some shithead stabs an innocent kid to death in a schoolyard, everyone starts shedding tears for the perp, then the conversation turns to gun control. Only on DetroitYES! Tell you what, if the nine year old had a gun, he'd be alive today.

Not before shooting himself in the head.

**Dan Wesson** · September-03-14, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

You've hijacked threads in your time. I'll plead guilty this time to introducing another case in parallel to the O.P.'s. In really don't see any problem widening the view to include the poor parenting both kids were dealt. As for Mr. Pitts, he should of course not have an opinion contrary to yours on this subject. Free speech is for wusses, show me your Smith and Wessons.

Wow... I don't know what to think!

**canuck** · September-03-14, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Wow... I don't know what to think!

I know, I trust you on that.

**Honky Tonk** · September-04-14, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

Not before shooting himself in the head.

Yeah, but even that is better way to go then lying there defenseless while some POS keeps sticking you repeatedly with a 9" knife. @ least that way, you're in control of the situation.

**canuck** · September-05-14, 02:50 AM

Yes. The thing is I can't fathom the thought of a bunch of children packing pistols across the US for self defense. It's a sweet and generous concept but it doesn't fly.

Also, while the crime here is horrible, and the perpetrator may be irredeemable [[hardened criminal), the fact is he was a victim of brutality and neglect from severely fucked up parents. If we are looking for attenuating circumstances for a guy like Wafer, surely we can look for same in this case. A twelve year old kid who does this is either detached from reality or in great despair. I think judicial punishment without other measures just repeats the cycle of violence this kid has known from day one.

**Honky Tonk** · September-05-14, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

Yes. The thing is I can't fathom the thought of a bunch of children packing pistols across the US for self defense. It's a sweet and generous concept but it doesn't fly.

Also, while the crime here is horrible, and the perpetrator may be irredeemable [[hardened criminal), the fact is he was a victim of brutality and neglect from severely fucked up parents. If we are looking for attenuating circumstances for a guy like Wafer, surely we can look for same in this case. A twelve year old kid who does this is either detached from reality or in great despair. I think judicial punishment without other measures just repeats the cycle of violence this kid has known from day one.

I don't think anyone here, including myself, is condoning arming 9 year olds with 9 mm Sig's, so they can safely play a game of Dodge Ball in the schoolyard. It sucks the 14 year old had crackheads for parents. None of that excuses the fact he cold-bloodily murdered an innocent person. The 9 year old didn't show up shit-faced high @ 4:30 a.m., pounding the bejuzus out of the 14 year olds house. None of that happened. Nor does it matter some ass-clown parent somewhere thought it was cute to hand-over a loaded Uzi, on full automatic, to their 9 year old, so they could film the cute event with their cell phone. The 9 year old in the schoolyard is dead through no fault of his own.

**NickCharles** · September-05-14, 05:11 PM

If you truly believe that your little pre-teen girl needs to know how to operate such a weapon, you need to do everything you can do to get the fuck out of the area in which you reside.

**Jimaz** · September-05-14, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by NickCharles

If you truly believe that your little pre-teen girl needs to know how to operate such a weapon, you need to do everything you can do to get the fuck out of the area in which you reside.

My first interpretation of that must have been wrong. I thought you meant you need to get away from her ASAP while her finger's on the trigger.

Scary funny.

But I think you really meant that if someone feels that unsafe where they live, then they need to move away. Correct?

Good point.